Some folks here have so much anger between them and their WAS. My problem is the opposite. I know we would have a great time going to the concert. She knows it too, that's why she'd accept in a second if I asked her. Makes it so tempting for me. ILYBNILWY. ILYBNILWY. ILYBNILWY. LOL!
In the meantime know that no woman is unmoved by the loving interaction of a man with HER/HIS children...be the best dad you can be.
I think this is good advice and I've seen you post it many times on this board, and I believe it too...although in some instances, such as mine, I don't think the woman is 'moved' by anything that her husband does...even being loving and compassionate to their children.
Antlers...I'm sorry about your sitch. You know I am. But I stand by my words. I say them b/c they are so true. Of the women I know who are divorced, (judging by my recent class reunion, that's a LOT) the ones who stayed M longer than they thought they should, ALL said they stayed b/c "he was such a good father" and the ones who reconciled or tried to, ALL said "He was a good father/the kids love him so much/they're so close"...etc. And the ones who ended up divorced have better visitation and happier kids, b/c the fathers were good men who put their children first. I also have seen at least one woman end her 2nd m (to the OM) b/c he was NOT good with the kids...who knows? I think a reconciliation with her 1st h may happen in that case.
And of the couples who are still married, ALL the wives mentioned how their h's are "good fathers". So heck yes, I think it matters a lot to mothers. Enough to reverse a MLC or whatever your w is doing? Evidently not...or not yet....
And for that, I am truly sorry. You know, it doesn't mean she's not moved though...just means something else is in her priority sights right now. And believe me, when h was in his "whatever the hell it was" (aka MLC but I hate that term sometimes) I cannot tell you what was in his sights for I could not ever relate to it, and he was NOT a good father but he had been very involved before that. So in time, seems he really missed it all. And his being a good father before, did make a big difference in our reconciliation. I know if I had NO memories of him being involved as a good dad, I might not have cared as much about saving things...
Sorry for the hijack. Good luck Antlers, j-
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
your problem may be that you don't know if you want a reconciliation, if that is where your w is headed. It can come to this I know. Been there, done that. And it makes us attractive to the WASs apparently. Which confuses us a lot. Sometimes I think it's as if they don't want to come to our party but they sure want to be invited! AND then we go through the same things...
So remember, if a reconciliation is at least a possibility and since you have kids, it should at least be a consideration, then she will have to know at some point that you won't hold the A over her head forever like the sword of Damacles...I know, you are thinking, "Screw that! SHE'S the one who I can't trust!"
But the thing is, I think a lot of m's end and don't reconcile b/c the WAS does not think they'll ever be forgiven -- and you know, they're often right. The LBSer does not know how to truly forgive, or worse, does not truly want to do it. They want the WAS to return to suffer or "teach them a lesson" etc. I know you're not like that but be careful. For me, learning to forgive and really doing it, was a profound but difficult journey- that I am still on.
For a happy lasting marital restoration, at some point you both will have to be able to envision a life together that's happy & satisfying, and that will require forgiveness and trust and a leap of faith on both ends. You'll have to trust her not to cheat again (HUGE) and she'll have to trust that you won't throw it in her face or try to shame her, or be nasty or withhold love from her...and both of these things will take time. Both of you are going to have to re-build trust.
Of course, if you do prefer singledom...that's another story. But don't make light of forgiveness. It's incredibly hard and I still backslide, and then I'm the problem. Know what I mean? In any event, you are getting good tactical advice here for the most part. But remember to stay focussed on your goal...and ask whether something seems to be working not just to get a change in your w, but to move you closer to the goal. And now and then, double check that goal. Is it what you still want? Be open...marriages can reconcile and actually improve to what you wanted, had before, or become even deeper. Yes, it happens.
Good luck, j-
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
After all this time, I'm trying to be both realistic and pragmatic about the possibilities of reconciliation. I don't know what my W wants, and I don't think she does either. She has apparently broken it off with OM. It was an impossible fantasy situation, so it's not surprising it died a slow death. I guess I'm now entering a new phase of this whole process.
I totally hear you about forgiveness. If I do manage to save my M, I will be very determined to make it the M we never had, and since our previous M was absolutely laden with resentment, I will not allow resentment to contaminate our new M. I know that means I'll have to forgive, and not just say it, but really forgive. Not an easy task I know. Seeing the happiness on my kids' faces will give me plenty of motivation.
I am also forcing myself to see how selfish my W is still acting, and no matter how much I want my family back together, I will need to see that change. The rest of my life is at stake here. I deserve a lot better than what she has offered me so far.
After all this time, I'm trying to be both realistic and pragmatic about the possibilities of reconciliation. I don't know what my W wants, and I don't think she does either. She has apparently broken it off with OM. It was an impossible fantasy situation, so it's not surprising it died a slow death. I guess I'm now entering a new phase of this whole process.
reality? the toughts and the fantasies linger on a long long time even after things have supposedily broken off. and if either one has an SUV hopefully they dont run into eachother at the mall ...
I am worried about the thoughts and fantasies lingering. Given that they are literally about as far apart as two people on Earth can be, I'm not too worried about accidental contact!
The distance is a double edged sword though. It may have doomed the A, but I'm concerned the distance between them will perpetuate an endless "if only" fantasy in my W's mind, making it impossible for her to let it go. This is what I fear the most, and why I give serious thought to just moving on.
You are not a mind reader. And you don't have to be. Take what your wife says at face value. I KNOW we're supposed to only believe half what they DO and none of what they say but when it comes to a reconciliation, IF it does, then listen to her words and take them at face value until if and when her actions don't match. But if she says he's out of the picture and there's no evidence to the contrary, part of the whole forgiveness thing will be to accept that and let it go. You know this.
IF you get to the point of trying, may I recommend you attend Retrovaille? It's a marriage "retreat" workshop and it's for couples in trouble. You do NOT have to be Catholic or even Christian though I'd think an atheist would not find it as helpful. Also it is free if you cannot afford it. We attended this recently so I'm positive and yet I had gotten some bad information so fwiw, that's the deal. Anyhow, we got a lot out of it. It'll give you the tools you need to help you forgive. Without forgiveness, your m is doomed. All of ours are... But your comments about your motivation are wonderful and if there's a chance for it, and for your kids sake I hope there is, be open. And be very mindful of the cynics here and elsewhere, who want to punish and "teach a lesson" to a WAS...when you hear those words remember that they are not aimed at the restoration of a healthy M, but at retribution. No one in particular but heck, you might hear yourself saying it inside, and beware of those moments. And in your Real life there will be those folks around. And I'm also not saying "try saving the M at all costs" either.
We all have to dig deep and do the soul searching to find where our boundaries are. We have to cast our pride and ego aside, and yet set and enforce healthy boundaries for ourself to protect our hearts and children's and our futures, as much as possible. No one can or should tell us what to do. Only you know, so pray for guidance AND strength and do what His will is as best you can.
Good luck, j-
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
The night before Thanksgiving I had to pick up the kids from my W. My oldest daughter was clinging to my W and sobbing. My W tried to console her, to no avail, she just didn't want to leave her mommy. Eventually my W gave up and just put her in the car crying, and went into her house. Seeing my daughter so sad started to make me angry, and watching my W walk away from her pushed me over the edge. I got out of the car and knocked on the door. When my W came to the door I said "I remember a time when if one of our kids were crying, we would do anything to make it stop." She immediately got defensive and said "Don't you lay that guilt trip on me! If you're angry, just say so." I said "I am angry." She said "What do you want me to do? This is normal." I just looked at her with a blank face and didn't say anything. She said again "What do you want me to do?" and again I said nothing. I eventually said "See you tomorrow" and I walked away. I know I probably screwed up showing her that much emotion, but I'm human. The strange thing is, I later heard from my MIL that my W talked to her about it right after, and my MIL said my W told her she said to me "I'm never coming back to you, so you better get used to seeing that." She never said that to me. Is she delusional now? She's just making stuff up. When I told my MIL she didn't say that to me, my MIL shook her head and said "You should ask her if she's having a nervous breakdown."
The next day was Thanksgiving. The kids and I spent a lazy morning eating, playing, and watching the parade. I did talk to my W on the phone, I was friendly, I said I wasn't angry and I wanted us to have a good Thanksgiving. She was very friendly as well, and asked my opinion about a new computer she was thinking of getting. We got ready to go to my MIL's house. I had bought some new clothes, and I made sure I was looking my absolute best. From the marathon training, I'm in very good shape. I packed fun things for us to do during the day, which is big 180 for me, as I never would have done that in the past.
The day at my MIL's house was relaxing and mellow. My W arrived and was acting kind of b*tchy at first. She brought our (now her) little dog, who I was happy to see. I told her it was a nice surprise for me to see the dog and she snapped back "She wouldn't be here if mom didn't ask me to bring her." I didn't let her foul mood phase me at all. I offered her champagne, which she declined at first, then accepted a short while later. I am good at getting her in a better mood, and this day was no exception. Soon she was chatting and friendly. We played games with the kids and generally had a nice day. At one point she asked me "So H, are there any movies you want to see?" Now, I don't know if this is some bait to get me to ask her out, but I didn't bite. I rattled off a couple that sound good to me, and I asked her what she thought looked good. She told me, and then I let it drop.
I started wrestling with the kids and had my W laughing out loud as I let them beat me. I took the kids outside to play for a while before dinner. I didn't ask my W if she wanted to join us, and she showed no interest. She just sat there on the sofa looking annoyed. What is her problem? Why do I even want this woman?
We had a nice meal, my W complimented me on the dish I made, and I teased her and said her pie was merely "edible". My son said "This is the best day ever!" which made me kind of sad. The kids love it so much when we're all together.
We hung out for a while longer after dinner and my W eventually said she had to go. She was taking the kids to her brother's place for the long weekend and she needed to get everything packed. She said goodbye to the kids, I was sitting on the floor, and as she walked by me she put her hand on my shoulder and said "Happy Thanksgiving H." I said "You too W."
So Thanksgiving went ok I guess, but the big news is what I did this morning. I sent my W the following e-mail:
W-
I've decided to exit this limbo. Life is too short to waste on this nonsense. Your behavior over the past year and a half has been incredibly disrespectful to me and our marriage. I gave you an opportunity to save our marriage and family, and your response was nowhere near what I needed to hear. I've decided I'm done and moving on. I consider our marriage to be over, and I want to finalize the legal side of things so I can fully move on. I know you said you didn't want to meet until January, but I'm not willing to wait that long. Please contact the mediator and set up an appointment or let me know what time works for you and I'll set it up. Next Wednesday afternoon works for me. I have some questions for the mediator I want to ask with both of us present. Like I said, I'll find the money to pay for it and you can pay me back for your half next year.
H
It got an immediate response. She tried to call three times in five minutes. I answered none of them, but on the third she left a searing voice message. She said something like:
If you want to know why I'm divorcing you, just look at your behavior over the past few weeks. I've been open and flexible, helping with the kids, and this is what you pull?! What has got up your as* that you needed to send that message?! I'm not going to the mediator. The only way you'll get me there is if you pay! I'm not paying for half!"
She also replied to my e-mail saying that she is going to attend our daughter's parent teacher conference alone, and that if I go, she'll leave.
I have to admit, I'm a combination of thrilled and anxious right now. You folks said I'd get a reaction. Wow! What's weird is that my only behavior over the past few weeks is that I've been distant, and not even totally so. I've been friendly, and chatted with her, and discussed the kids as needed. We had a nice Thanksgiving, and I brought the kids to her Mom's like she wanted. What the hell is she referring to about my behavior over the past few weeks?
What's truly funny is what she said about not going to mediation unless I paid. I said the exact same thing to her six months ago. I like how she threw out the "I'm divorcing you" comment, trying to get the power back, then refusing to go to mediation so we can get it done!
I can't believe I'm actually smiling as I type this. The question is, what now?
