Another waw/mlc and I need support

[cat04]

Cy,

I don’t know if that was a backslide. You don’t want to be “sorry you feel that way” about everything. Maybe just a comment that it is something you find you enjoy. Who knows.

Validating and not pursuing and all of that takes a ton of time to get used to. And sometimes you do have to say what you feel or think. As time passes, it becomes easier to know when to say what.

Funny how one day she is calling you because the kids won’t listen to her and then later blaming you because they listen to her when you are not around…

Do your best to not let her use the kids as pawns. Personally, I refuse to let my S hold anything over my head by the threat of “telling his father”. That is total bull. When I am home, I am the parent and I don’t care what his father thinks. So I tell him, go ahead but it won’t make any difference in my decision with you.

You sound like you have a good idea of what is going on and are handling it well.

Have a good day.

[Punktmann]

Cy, you have a really good handle on this. Wish I had at the stage you're at.

Is she MLC or WAW? Does it matter? I thought it did in my sitch, but turns out that it don't.

About the kids / sitter w the W.

She said last night she would watch the kids tomorrow while I went out and today on the phone she said that she would only watch them if I couldn't get a "good" sitter. I told her not to worry about it. I will arrange for a sitter. She's still running. So much for spending time alone with the kids with me not around!

From experience now, I ALWAYS arrange for a friend to watch my boys b4 I call her and ask if she wants to keep them that night. Every time you don't, you give her veto power over your plans, and guess what, an MLCer will veto at the last minute EVERY time.

They want to have their cake and eat it too, or more specifically, she want's to have a single life, and have you to fall back on. You having a life outside of stay at home pineing for her, doesn't really fit in too well with her MLC life.

I'm not trying to be mean about this, but take it from experience, that is EXACTLY what you are experiencing here.

I really don't think that they even know that is what they are doing, but it doesn't matter, cause all the intricate deceptions that go on in their heads are still going on.

I also though the thanksgiving request sounded a bit fishy

Again, from experience, my x tried to make me leave and take my boys to my parent's on Christmas during the D. When I decided to keep the kids home for Christmas, you'd have thought I launched nukes on Russia! It's not about you or her or the kids, it's about being defied on their plans.

I don't often say do this or do that, mostly cause we view each other's world through a looking glass darkly, but on this, I will unequivocally say that you should tell her that she can have the kids for Thanksgiving, but that you'll be staying home, and enjoying the holiday at home alone. If she wants to have them for a private celebration, then she can take them to her apartment or wherever she stays then she is "divorcing" herself from the family / reality. If that's an unsuitable place in her mind, then, Hello, welcome to the world you are making.

It's not up to you to make her MLC easier on her, I did that a lot, and I regret every second of it. When I finally stopped, you wouldn't believe the Godzilla I awoke.
I'm totally not suggesting that you poke that Godzilla with a stick, (if you do, get a looooong stick, ) just that acquiescence, apart from your normal life, to the MLCer only furthers her illusion that this behavior is fine, that things will be easy, that the kids will be fine. etc. All that BS.

Just one guy who's story reads like yours word for word, Nope. I'm not leaving. If you have some plans that don't include me, then do them at your apartment or your Mom's place, wherever, but I'm here and I'm stayin here, at my home. I'm gonna go for a run, then watch the Packers, then make dinner, then enjoy it, and then watch the Raiders stomp the Cowboys.

I'm hardly suggesting that you get in her face and have a confrontation, DBing principles apply here, but you can do this in a DBing way, by couching your refusal to leave in terms that are non-confrontational, like "About Thanksgiving, I'm not traveling this holiday, I'll be staying home. You and the kids are welcome to join me, but if not, I hope that you have a good holiday together."


And on that note, I'll throw this out there too. My X wanted the D, I didn't, blah blah blah. When she filed she refused to leave for the next 6 months, I left the marital bed for a spare room to be a gentleman. Is that important? Hmm, not sure, but I'll say this, it made me feel like it was my fault, it made my kids think that it was my fault, it encouraged her in the idea that she made the rules according to her MLC.

I wouldn't do it that way again.



Best,

Punkt.

[cyclone]

Hi Punkt, thanks for stopping by my thread.

Some days I think I have a good handle on this and others I wonder if am completely clueless. I am having a tough time with the detachment but it is slowly getting better. I realize that the only thing I can control is myself but I am still having a hard time with letting go.

You are totally right about what they are doing re: having a single life but also wanting to have us to turn to. Having two kids in the mix makes things really tough. When it come to household chores I think she is testing to see just how little work she can do. Then I realize I am a better person than to play such childish games and I want the kids to see their dad as a responsible parent and adult. This is where I feel clueless sometimes.

In retrospect I wish too that I had not been the gentleman and given up our room. It doesn't make me feel like this is my fault but I don't want the kids to think it is. My oldest has said he feels sorry for me. That isn't good either. I've told him that where I sleep is my choice and not moms so no need to feel sorry for me. I'm not ready to open the hornets nest by demanding that she move out of our room yet. Still not detached enough.

I thought things were getting better between us. She has been connecting with the kids more and our times together have been more friendly and more like old times. But then she continues to bring up that we have to move things along and get this all figured out. She is talking about D of course. The last time this happened was last Friday. I don't want to get drawn into a discussion in front of the kids. He goal is to make them think that this is something thatbwe both want. I keep saying it is her choice to do as she wishes. I won't get sucked into filling or taking responsibility for a D.

Enough rambling for now. Check in from time to time. I get a lot of support from reading these threads knowing that others have gone through or are going through this mess. It sucks and hurts like he11.

[cyclone]

An update:

The past couple of days have been interesting. The MLC is very good at spreading their confusion or sucking us in.

A couple of days ago while making dinner, W comes in and starts talking about stuff. I've been really good the past few days while off work of keeping the conversation light and maintaining PMA. She then asks if I ever give any thought to being friends later. She says she still wants to be my best friend and wants me to be hers. I told her that we used to be best friends but I don't have a crystal ball. I said I'd like to be her friend for now. There has definitely been a noticable increase in the amount of friendly talk between the two of is. Just two months ago she couldn't wait to leave whenever o was around.

Yesterday evening I sat down to watch some tv and she came in to join me. Rather than sit on opposite sides of the couch she sat next to me. A few minutes later she is really close and puts her head on my shoulder. I followed her lead by rubbing her feet a bit later when she adjusted positions. It was an evening where I felt I was with my wife again.

I told myself later to enjoy the moment for what it was and have no expectations. Today started well enough. Got up to go for an hour long bike ride (GAL). Spent good time with the kids later. She struggled with some business stuff for most of the day. This is something that in the past I would have jumped in to save her. I didn't help when she was complaining about it. Just said I had confidence in her thatvshe could figure it all out.

Later in the day she joined me on the couch and wanted to talk about thanksgiving. She wanted to know if would be alright if she left around 2:30. I told her that we had agreed to have dinner at 2 and she could leave whenever she wanted. She won't be home tonight so she probably won't show up until 2 but at this point if she joins us or not is her choice. It still amazes me that she has gone from wanted the kids by herself to now spending maybe 30 min with them for thanksgiving. She has toldnthem theybcqn spend the afternoon on the Wii because as she told me the won't notice that she is gone. Right.

The final part of the conversation on the couch was about we need to figure things out soon. She doesn't want us to drop a Hiroshima bomb on the kids over the holidays. There is no us in the bomb dropping. It won't be any easier on the kids later although she may have an easier time. This talk still affects me although I don't let it show. She commented that I never want to talk about this stuff and she is ways the one to initiate conversations.

The stuff I am confused about is doing 180s. If one of her valid complaints was that I don't show affection as much as I should so I just have to tough it out and hope to get to a point where she wants to try again to show her that I can make that change. It seems as though detaching plays into the more of the same behavior. Then again I realize that the only way she can get through this is on her own and I have to drop the rope for that to happen. This is why I am confused about the difference between a WAW and MLC. In the end I'll be fine because I am working on me but I'd also like to not do the wrong thing when it comes to a chance to save our M.

Opinions welcome.

[drewnole]

How about showing more affection towards the KIDS?

As for talking about things, sounds like she wants you to agree with her decison to leave. Remember, this is a decision SHE is making. Don't let her make this a joint decision.

By making it a joint decision, she is removing some of the guilt. She can say to herself and friends "we both agreed to go our seperate ways".

Don't let her make that decision for you. Enjoy the weekend.

[cyclone]

Thanksgiving was an interesting day. Turns out W did come home sometime on the middle of the night Wednesday. In the morning s7 asks if she wants to go to pick flowers. It's something they have done together the past couple of years. This time he wants to ride his bike. S9 wants to go on a ride too and asks if I want to join them. We all end up going for a short ride around the neighborhood looking for wildflowers.

When we get back home W wants to go swimming so she takes S7. S9 wants to stay home with me. She come back about 30 min before dinner is served. She spends that time getting all dressed up. We have a nice meal then she tells the kids they can go play computer games and leaves.

She doesn't come back home until Friday around 5pm. I regret responding to a text she sent earlier asking what we were doing. I should have ignored it or maybe better responded that we were having fun. Instead I told her the kids and I were playing a board game. When she finally gets home she wants to take the kids to a movie. I said great, have a great time. S9 will only go if I go and asks her if I can come too. She says of course I am welcome to go but when he tells me that I have to go because otherwise he won't, she rolls her eyes. I made the mistake of saying thatvi saw the eye roll and I wouldn't be going. That opened floodgates for some of her venom. She said that for years I didn't go out with them to pick flowers but I had to yesterday. I handled that one ok but when she said I am pushing her away all the time I reponded with I am trying to give you space and you are running. I tried to remain calm and eventually had to say that I wouldn't get sucked into a fight about it. Take the kids to the movie and have a great time. S9 stayed home with me but not before a bunch more drama between the two of them. Of course that is my fault too.

This stuff is emotionally draining. Today more drama over the kids. She wanted to take them both to the library and then out to lunch, then take s9 to do some shopping. Fantastic. Have fun. Please call when you Re on your way home because I might go out and I want to make sure that I am home when you bring s7 back.

I did go out to have lunch. As I was getting ready to leave he calls and says I know you told me to call so I shouldn't be frustrated but you aren't home. She asks where she can meet me to drop off S7. Stay at home I say. I'll be there in 5 min. She calls back to say that she is on her way out. Where can she meet me. I tell her meet me at home. She calls back to say that s7 hasn't had lunch and she would drop him off at a resturaunt we visit frequently. I drive there to find her parked out front with s9 in the car. S7 is in the restaraunt all by himself.

Sorry for the long post. Just had to get it all out.

[cyclone]

It's been a few days and some things have happened. W called yesterday from the C office to say that she wanted me to join her for a session because there were some things she had to talk about.

Later she called me back with second thoughts about paying a C for us to talk. The reason she wanted to talk to me was to apologize for last week's little fight about going to the movies with the kids. She realizes now that it was very hurtful and wanted to apologize. Little does she know that there have been many more more hurtful things than that.

She wanted to talk about our R. There was a lot of blah, blah, blah but I could really sense the confusion. I listened and validated with every ounce of my being. She admitted to being in a MLC. Said she loves and respects me deeply but doesn't feel any romantic love toward me. In the same sentence said she still wants a D but it can be what we want it to be. Doesn't have to be legal, can just be us splitting our time with the kids. Huh? Lots more blah, blah, blah.

The solution she proposed was for us to both have places to stay outside the house and we would share time in the house with the kids. That way they would be in a stable environment and minimize the impact of the situation. I am still against moving out of the house, but she doesn't want to leave full time again because of the disastrous effect it had on the kids relationship with her.

I have to admit that there is a part of me that wants to just move out to let her see that what things would be like without me around - completely drop the rope. Unfortunately I am conflicted because of the kids. I feel they really need me around them right now.

She expressed her frustration that I've been doing things on my own without telling her. She is afraid that I will not be there for her to help with things like taxes. I told her I have confidence in her ability to make it on her own. Maybe she is starting to see a little of the light?

Anyway, she made a dinner for me and the kids as part of her apology and actually apologized to me and the kids at the dinner table. I'll take it.

[Jack_Three_Beans]

How are you doing Cyc?

Are you holding up well?

That "We'll all still be a happy family after the divorce" fantasy world where clouds are made of cotton candy and dogs poop out licorice is a wonderful place isn't it?

Look man, if she is in MLC, then this is temporary. Unfortunately...so was the Mesozoic Period...but as is the life of a may fly.

Her confusion is your ally.

And the kids do need you around, you're their dad man. You're not the crazy one, you stick there.

[cat04]

Cyclone,

Please don’t do anything rash. If she wants to leave, let her. But unless you really want to leave, don’t do it to try to prove any point to her.

The confusion is your friend. Although it will also keep you on the rollercoaster if you let it. Keep doing what you need to do for you. Listen to her, recognize what she says for what it is. There is merit in her words believe it or not. You just have to sift through the BS to find it.

Do your best to make the holidays the best for you and your kids. That is what is important right now. She will find her way when she is ready.

[cyclone]

Hi Jack,

Doing pretty well most of the time.

I'm still LMAO over your fantasy world comment! That made my day. It sure is a wonderful place!

Hi Cat,

Thanks for checking in with me. I don't plan to do anything rash and I don't feel like leaving so I won't. Thanks for reminding me of the possible merit in her words. Sifting BS is a tough job.