Sad To Be Back 4 Years After The Bust

[BeTheMan]

Honestly, it's a awesome and a little scary. I know it's supposed to be counter intuitive and I know it's supposed to work. But...putting everything on the line was tough.

A couple of times she mentioned what is good for the kids and said I was being selfish. I know the kids will be fine. They are 18 and 16 and she can still see them as much as she likes. We just won't be playing family.

Friday, I decided to tell her that I accidentally found out the location of her apartment, and yesterday she said something about how I would snoop and spy. I said "I want nothing to do with your non family home". That one really hit home and she said it was mean. I apologized and said I didn't intend to be mean (but I did intend to get her attention).

At one point today, when she questioned my comments I said "I have nothing to lose" and she responded with "you have have everything to lose". Nice threat. During that conversation this morning, she again alluded to the fact that to her moving out doesn't mean the marriage is over. I really wonder what she actually thinks. I know it doesn't matter, but still, I would love to know what's going on in that head of hers.

WAW will be spending most of the day with her dying grandmother, so when she comes home I will be comforting, but not clingy. Tonight we will be having our final Sunday dinner together as a family and I made sure to mention that it would be just that. Again, a puposeful shot of reality for her.

I would love a barrage of tests on my boundaries. That would mean she is the pursuer.

The hardest part for me between now and moving day will be to not bring up the R in any way. That is my major weak spot. I always want to temperature check. I finally made clear comments on all that really needs to be discussed, now I need to SHUT UP.

I hope Puppy reads this - reading No More Mr Nice Guy helped give me the balls to finally stand up to my WAW today. I also thought what would Puppy/Robx/Coach tell me to say right now?

Folks...support me like never before this coming week and do not let me backslide. It's too late to stop the move, but that doesn't mean this is over.

[Gnosis]

Honestly, it's a awesome and a little scary. I know it's supposed to be counter intuitive and I know it's supposed to work.

It IS counter intuitive and is DOES work.

A couple of times she mentioned what is good for the kids and said I was being selfish. I know the kids will be fine. They are 18 and 16 and she can still see them as much as she likes. We just won't be playing family.

Excellent! Keep this frame of mind.

I said "I want nothing to do with your non family home". That one really hit home and she said it was mean. I apologized and said I didn't intend to be mean (but I did intend to get her attention).

Good job (incl. apologizing)

At one point today, when she questioned my comments I said "I have nothing to lose" and she responded with "you have have everything to lose". Nice threat.

That's the attitude to have. Congratulations on seeing it for what it was.

During that conversation this morning, she again alluded to the fact that to her moving out doesn't mean the marriage is over. Maybe I should not have said the following, but I did. I said "if I knew that you wanted to work towards reconciliation, it would be different for me - but you won't be clear about it".

OK job. You're showing a bit of wavering there that you are still available. Strengthen this boundary. In Future's post I wrote the following:

W, I'd like to make myself very clear one point in this process. In my eyes separation is the equivalent of divorce. For me there is no difference. The minute these papers are signed we are DONE... FOR GOOD. I do not consider you a friend. There will be no friendship. You are the remnants of a distasteful business transaction to me. I will not be there for you and do not want to know you. For the kids sake and with their best interests in mind I will treat you with the same politeness and courtesy I reserve for a stranger. Good luck to you.

Take this and rework it to your situation.

I would love a barrage of tests on my boundaries. That would mean she is the pursuer.

Oh they're coming... The problem is most of the time we don't realize that they were tests until after they happened.

The hardest part for me between now and moving day will be to not bring up the R in any way. That is my major weak spot. I always want to temperature check.

You know your weaknesses. Take the appropriate measures. Avoid being alone with her. Go out. I don't remember how your GAL stuff is going, but it's time to turn it up a notch or fake it.

Leave the house dressed to the nine's. Get new outfits... ask the chick's at the clothing stores to help you pick them out. New haircut, clean shaven, smart clothing. Strut your stuff. Come home LATE... and don't call to say you're going to be late. If you don't have anyone to go out with go to a coffee shop and take a book with you... stay there and read it. Don't come home drunk, but by a quart of Jack Daniels. Before you walk into the door take a swig. Flop into bed... and make sure she gets the whiff of alcohol on your breath.

I finally made clear comments on all that really needs to be discussed, now I need to SHUT UP.

YES.

Folks...support me like never before this coming week and do not let me backslide.

I'm not Puppy/Robx/Coach but I'll be here for as long as you carry on being a man. Prepare yourself for a few 2x4's.

So.... here's an idea for you... while you wait for the big guns to show up. Go through their posts and make notes on what they have said to others. Write them down and run through the scenarios in your head. This way when the situation arises you are better PREPARED.

Overall, good job.

[Coach]

You exhibited pass-agressive behavior by moving the stuff in the drawer while she was there. And again when you admit you doing things to get a reaction, instead of saying what is on your mind you do something childish and to punish her.

Your wife tells you what she is thinking and you wonder "I wish I knew what she is thinking." Has she ever told you she feels "invisible" or "unheard."

You did so-so on the boundaries, you basically told her what she was allowed to do. Not how to present bundaries.


I don't think you can handle a vacation together.

[robx]

F!@#$% GNOSIS!!!
LOL!
It was like reading something I would post but someone else did it.
LOL! Too funny!!!

BTM I hope you seriously read everything GNOSIS has taken the time to post for you here about a dozen dozen times until you get it in your head.

...During that conversation this morning, she again alluded to the fact that to her moving out doesn't mean the marriage is over. Maybe I should not have said the following, but I did. I said "if I knew that you wanted to work towards reconciliation, it would be different for me - but you won't be clear about it".

Maybe the next time she brings this up, you can "ALLUDE" to her that her moving out means that the marriage is over to you. If she valued it, she wouldn't be moving out on you & the marriage - she is sending a clear message but it's wrapped up in her WAS script.

"No BTM, the marriage isn't over, I'm just moving to a new place without you because it's healthy for the marriage for me to have my own space that you weren't supposed to know about just in case I want to have over some male companions which will also help me realize my marriage to you isn't over..."

My response to her when she said that BS would have been, "why do you assume I'm going to wait for you while you get your act together?! Is my life less valuable than yours? While you have fun with whoever at your new singles pad I should wait home like a big dummy hoping you'll come back one day? Sorry to burst your bubble, I'm not that big dummy and I consider this marriage over when you've walked out that door, I'm not waiting for you, My life is TOO VALUABLE to waste."

And as for using up those empty drawers and her telling you to wait until she's moved out... UMMMM.... why? If they're empty and she has taken her stuff out of them, I'm assuming they're available? She's testing you, all of these things she does are tests, seriously at this point, you can consider every second of interaction with her to be a test to see if you're a weak boy or a STRONG MAN. Put stuff in those empty drawers, if she makes noise about it, just tell her, "Look you emptied them, I'm assuming empty drawers are then available to be used for something other than storing dust, why should I wait till you move out to use them?" Let her come up with reasons why you should wait to use those empty drawers, she can justify that excuse, you don't have to come up with excuses to use an empty drawer - do you see the logic in that? She made you question using an empty drawer and that doesn't make sense, you should question why the drawer should remain empty. "Why should it be empty - that doesn't make any sense?" and give her a weird look like she's clueless, shake your head as in she doesn't make any sense.

Well "indy" or should i say "BTM", it only took you 48 pages of your thread to finally start taking the advice we gave you, that book must have clinched it for you.

Thank GOD for small favors,
masculinity looks good on you bro,
I hope you wear it for the rest of your life,
The women in your life will appreciate it ;-)

[robx]

You exhibited pass-agressive behavior by moving the stuff in the drawer while she was there. And again when you admit you doing things to get a reaction, instead of saying what is on your mind you do something childish and to punish her.

Your wife tells you what she is thinking and you wonder "I wish I knew what she is thinking." Has she ever told you she feels "invisible" or "unheard."

You did so-so on the boundaries, you basically told her what she was allowed to do. Not how to present bundaries.


I don't think you can handle a vacation together.

Coach it's a drawer, not a savings account.
She emptied it, if he had a legitimate use for it in his own home which she is leaving of her own free will, I'm assuming he's allowed to use it. Based on the entire thread I get the idea that indy/BTM is always questioning what to do around her, should i/shouldn't i, he needs to just start doing instead of worrying about her reaction and always second guessing himself - he'll never gain confidence in his actions if he always has to consider every ramification for whatever he does - when he's around her it seems he worries at every moment that if he does something it make the air move in that specific room. In fact that is part of all of this issue, he holds back fearing her reaction and she knows this, she knows it too well. She's been in control of this relationship for far too long and she doesn't respect him at all. She tells him no sex so the man is naturally starved for sex but she sleeps in the same bed with him naked, I'm sure after she showers she walks around naked in front of him because she knows she looks good and she knows he wants her, she enjoys that control/power and she continues to do it, "look what I have that you can't have anymore", she plans to leave him, she has a new place to live which she wanted to keep secret because she didn't want him there anymore but she still planned on coming to their current home whenever she wanted, her message: I want and will have my privacy so I can do what I want and have space from you and probably seek out male companionship in some form or another without you being around to bother me about it but you aren't entitled to your privacy Indy, I'll come & go whenever I want to check up on you to make sure my good little boy is in his place where I want him to be. She plans to separate from him but she wants to leave him with a little bit of hope to make sure the control is still in place, "just because I'm moving out doesn't mean the marriage is over", well pray tell what does separation mean if it's not a prelude to divorce? I want my space from you, I want my privacy from you, I want to get used to the single life without you and enjoy everything that it offers.

Throughout all of this, she's been sending messages to him, both verbal and non-verbal: I'm in control indy and you aren't, this is all my decision indy and you have no control of this.

When he stops playing by her game book and starts charting his own course, she then notices that he's veering off the allowed predetermined route that she has set up for him. Isn't this part of cognitive dissonance: she has one idea, one plan and she's been holding on to this for so long that it's second nature to her, he now veers off this course, starts showing some thought that doesn't take into account caring about her reaction and it throws her for a loop as in:

"This isn't how I pictured this would go, he was supposed to be home alone after I leave and wallow in self-pity and i'll use him in this state to heal emotionally while he's hurting and this will bump up my self-confidence even more and I'll continue to lose respect for him more & more each & every day because he's still attached to me while i'm detaching from him. Why is he acting like this, why is this working out for him now? He's not sad or angry, he seems content, like this is working out for him now and that's not how i planned any of this to work out - this isn't right?!"

[Gnosis]

Coach:
I agree... all that I wrote is passive-aggressive. He's tried the soft, sensitive guy route and it's gotten him nowhere. P/A is a 180 for him and it's got her to pay attention. This is how it needs to be.

BTM:
One thing should be noted. See my signature for how you should be when you're interacting with your wife. Of important note is that in all your communication with her you REFRAIN FROM GUILTING her. Purposely trying to make her feel sorry, provoke regret or inflict pain on her is PURSUING.. and she will see it for what it is. Women are smarter and more intuitive than us simple men.

robx:
LOL, I have the same reactions when I come across your posts too. We've got a similar background and I think we've probably traveled a similar path to get to where we are. If you're on FB look me up by the same name as here... I'm the one whose lost his hair and is living life to the max.

[BeTheMan]

Thanks for all the feedback folks. I read every one of the posts a couple of times to make sure I am prepared for the few days. Yes, reading the book helped, but also letting go of the fear of the final outcome also helped.

I realize it took me waaaayyy too long to get here, but I finally made it. We all know I have difficulty staying with things for more than a day or two, but now that I have finally come this far, I refuse to slide back.

As for the vacation, I have a new mindset. I am going to a great resort to enjoy the weather etc, with my kids and their mother. That's it.

[Greek]

It's Sunday morning and WAW was just packing up some stuff for her move out on December 1st. I stayed in our bedroom doing other things while she cleaned out drawers etc. When I moved some of my stuff to a just emptied drawer, she said "you could wait until I move". I removed a few things that I never liked in the room to make it my own space. WAW didn't like that.

Were you being efficient (empty drawer, been needing one) or punitive (fine, you empty the drawer, I'll put MY stuff in there. Hrumph!)?

but when I told WAW that I don't want her in the house anytime I am around, don't want her to come over and clean the house and make dinner on Sundays, she really got upset.

Maybe a better point to ponder aloud with her is WHY she would want to clean the house to begin with???? Just tell her you can handle it.

Then I told her I was definitely not taking her to my company XMAS party and that I did not want to stay in the same room as her on vacation. She got even more angry. She even said "I want to hit you now".

Did she ask to go to your xmas party? Or was this more of you punishing? Again, a point to ponder is why she would want to go to your party or your vacation. Are y'all divorcing or what???

She said something like "you are pushing us to divorce". Later I said, "if I thought you had any intention of some day reconciling, I may be a little different, but I don't want to go through all the hurt again", so I need to do this like removing a band aid and get it over and move on.

So she's right? You are pushing toward D? I just have trouble sorting out what you are doing and WHY? Your...boundaries...seem more like one-upmanship to me. You seem like a guy who is done fighting for your M but not done fighting with your W.

It will be tough when deep inside all I really want is to have her here with me. I am at the most critical stage for my sanity and well being and need to be stronger than I have at any point see I returned here 3 months ago.

Try smarter. Strong is for you. Smart is for your M.

Greek

[BeTheMan]

Why does my WAW want to go on vacation, clean the house, make Sunday dinner, go to my XMAS party????

Because she wants the best of both worlds. She wants out, but wants to feel like she hasn't abondoned her kids. She wants to keep her old life waiting on the back burner, just in case her new one isn't what she thought it would be. Because she likes "gray" and not "black and white". Because she is fine living in limbo - because I made it too easy for her to get a nice single woman's apartment and fill it with single woman things. Because even though she rarely eats sweets, she suddenly loves eating cake. Because some day she might love the man I might become and that's a whole lot easier than loving me as I am.

I am not done fighting for my marriage, but I am done fighting for it from a position of total weakness.

[robx]

BRAVO!!!

I think you qualified for quote of the month on this one!
Seriously this sounds damn impressive,
Now can you back it up.... time will tell ;-)