I still don't think WAW should bring it up in a birthday card.
because you are still trying to control her. she can think, say, act, feel, anyway she wants. You are not responsible for her, she is.
You might not know you are doing it but that is controlling. Kinda like how Puppy points out you try to phrase your posts to get the answer you want. it's OK for adults to not agree.
M22,H45,W45 S21/18D12 Retain faith that you will prevail in the end, regardless of the difficulties and at the same time confront the most brutal facts of your current reality, whatever they might be.
I know I have issues that caused me to do things that resulted in the separation. But...I still don't think I am sick, and I still don't think WAW should bring it up in a birthday card. I wouldn't give her a card that said "learn to be better with money - for you"
What I want to do is the right thing - but not be disrespected. Maybe, saying anything is just giving her the power of knowing that she upset me and was able to toy with my emotions. I like to think PDT really knows his stuff, but maybe ignoring it completely shows more strentgh? Still, I think for me, I need to say something, but not in a weak way.
Remember, I was being snarky, and said it WOULD be best to ignore it. I just said that I probably couldn't let it pass -- that's a weakness of mine, and there's no need for YOU to repeat it!
Maybe I should get advice every time before I speak to WAW...
We have spoke a couple times today regarding a problem with her car - I work at a dealerhip. The card has not come up at all. But...if it does I will go with "Thanks for the cards" - and then only if she asks what I thought of her comments will I say "I can see why you would write that". I kinda like this planning my comments thing - I seem to need it!
I did text both kids to say thanks and that I love them and really, that's the important thing.
No Puppy - I believe WAW intends to give daughter a key soon after moving into her apartment. So...that's why I said it makes me more certain that there isn't OM involved now.
Because you've been so certain of yourself and everything you've done up to this point against our better judgment ;-)
Are you really certain?
- sorry, yes some sarcasm but it was a 2x4.
You don't know, and the move to be free of you in her own place will invite other freedoms if they don't already exist and in the same breath, other "freedoms" may have inspired this change on her part to move out.
You can keep assuming it's all about what you did to her to violate her but I could be wrong but it doesn't sound like you raped her plus the fact that you have slept in the same bed together and she sleeps naked on occasion or regularly doesn't suggest someone who is afraid of you sexually along with that little weed inspired frolick into the sexual woods doesn't suggest someone who is afraid of you sexually or is dealing with issues of you violating her.
Believe me Rob - all the sexual stuff is confusing to me too. She may just be using that night as her excuse to get out of a marriage that she has been very unhappy in for "four years". Legally, it was rape. You don't need insertion of penis for rape. But the fact that we had sex since, and almost a couple of other times and that she sleeps naked and showers in front of me, sure makes me wonder just how scared she is.
Am I certain there is no OM? Not 100%. But my gut still doesn't say so. If there is, that would actually make all this easier to understand and after lying about it would be a deal breaker. Until I have proof otherwise, nothing I can do.
Today is my 41st birthday. I have to share what my WAW wrote in the birthday card she left for me. Please note: WAW believes I need help to deal with some issues, most important of which would be my sexual ones - remember it was a final violation of her that made her finally decide to leave. I know the things I have done are not "normal", but I don't believe I am truly sick, but still I am working on this aspect of my life with my counselor and on my own.
Anyway...The front of the card has a picture of a lion on it and just says "I love you" - inside it says "...and I'm not lion". That's no big deal, but here is what WAW wrote inside:
"I know times are rough. I don't have the answers you are looking for. I'm sorry. Only time will tell. Be better...not for me...for you. All my love. WAW"
That makes me angry. Who basically tells someone there is something wrong with them in a birthday card? And what's the point of the "only time will tell" crap? And while the "not for me...but for you" is right out of dbing, for someone not aware isn't that like saying "your are defective - get better - but I won't be around to see it"?
Am I wrong here? Is the card mean in some ways? Feels like even in the card, she is trying to justify her walking away - because I need to be better.
I won't say anything about the card to WAW. Or should I - if she asks? I am purposely working all day and won't even see her until tonight. At least when she makes me angry this way, I feel like I will miss her less!
On a positive note: I did get a nice card from my kids!!
Well if you want my opinion on the card, turf it.
And put it in a trashbin with no lid on it that is easily viewable.
IMHO, you don't write that kind of crap in a card, you say happy birthday, hope your day is great, wish you another XX number of years, you know the usual birthday routine.
You don't offer personalized therapy in a birthday card.
CRAP as in CRAP BEHAVIOR (I did that for you puppy )
"I know times are rough. I don't have the answers you are looking for. I'm sorry. Only time will tell. Be better...not for me...for you. All my love. WAW"
Maybe i'm mind reading (forgive me, I'm employing the detached WAS mentality lately and it works so well), but that card basically says something entirely different, here is my interpretation:
"poor guy, I know you've been trying hard lately, being extra nice, smiling all the time, doing your best around the house, helping out, being supportive, you didn't even cancel the trip hoping that maybe it would show me how much you love me. I know that part already though, I'm sorry though, I don't feel that way about you anymore poor boy but I would like you to hold on because it kind of boosts my ego a bit with all this power & control you've handed over to me, I threw in the phrase only time will tell, just to continue stringing you along, my little puppy dog so that you can hope in vein that this will turn around some day, you're really a nice guy, I hope you get over this/us one day..."
How did that feel reading that?
Remember WAS mentality? Hello?! Anyone home? She's rewriting history to suit her new reality, resentment breeds entitlement and she resents you for the man you turned into and now she's getting ready for her new single life because she feels entitled to it and she will rewrite history alot more than this to accomplish that end goal.
Detach, let her go and let it be.
However if you want to do yourself a favor, don't live in limbo, if you are hurting now, you don't know the pain you will be feeling months from now holding on the way you are (ie. I'm sure there is no OM in the picture).
Have you guys talked legal separation/divorce yet?
Or does she plan on taking care of that when it suits her?
And if she does that, does it suit you to wait until she's ready?
You aren't my puppet, I don't pull your strings so I can't make you do or say anything but sometimes it is so frustrating to read what you post, I can tell you're in pain, you're angry, you miss your wife, you wish you could turn this around, you feel helpless, out of control, you have no control, everything is happening around you by itself as if you don't exist.
And in that last sentence lies the partial secret to your dilemna.
You do exist.
Act as if you do exist.
Detach, move on, date others.
You know on another thread in this forum, Kalni was giving SP some heck for not doing certain things, ie. detach. He has one of the more popular threads on this site but when I read what she said it really made me think about you and quite a few others. You want results, EXIST as an individual. Detach from this situation, hard as it may seem but just do it.
She recapped her situation in one of the more recent posts on SP's thread. They separated, I think possibly he moved out, he had admitted to an affair but told her it was over, she db'ed her ass off, no results, she detached, started dating, even fell in love with another man during this process and do you know what happened at that point..... husband all of a sudden is interested again and against her better judgment, she let get go of the new person she was seeing to reconcile with him but she referred to it as a fake reconciliation because it only lasted 10 months and WAH was cake eating the whole time because she discovered that he was still having an affair. She detached seriously this last time, really appeared to be moving on and you do this by ACTUALLY moving on with your life, what happens, WAH is back in the picture and apparently she can sense that he is into this process of wanting to be with her now but she won't give it to him easily, he has to build trust with her and to do that she needs to keep him at a distance and make him work for it, if it's too easy, he'll just slip into his old routine and F!@#$% up all over again.
Detach.
Let go of the outcome.
Move on with your life.
People only realize the value of something when it's gone. Your conquered, you want her badly and she can smell it and it doesn't smell good. You are no challenge, you pursue even when you say you don't pursue.
Be civil but detach. No more wanting to be friends, just continue with your life. No more emails, no more phone calls, no more texts, no more notes, no more cards, no more trips, no more gifts, no more favors, no more anything.
If she really wants to live a life without you, let her and that means removing yourself from her life.
Respect yourself enough to let go of the people that don't value you or the relationship they have with you.
Believe me Rob - all the sexual stuff is confusing to me too. She may just be using that night as her excuse to get out of a marriage that she has been very unhappy in for "four years". Legally, it was rape. You don't need insertion of penis for rape. But the fact that we had sex since, and almost a couple of other times and that she sleeps naked and showers in front of me, sure makes me wonder just how scared she is.
Am I certain there is no OM? Not 100%. But my gut still doesn't say so. If there is, that would actually make all this easier to understand and after lying about it would be a deal breaker. Until I have proof otherwise, nothing I can do.
bro I'm going to be honest with you.
Men will sometimes treat other women like a piece of meat.
Husbands will do that to their wives too.
It happens in a relationship and regularly, if you didn't ever grope your wife without first offering a hug every now & then you would be the exception not the rule (and yes i'm generalizing), men in general like to touch their wives, the sexual relationship is part of marriage.
What did you do that was so bad? Did you touch her inappropriately while she was sleeping? Seriously you have me confused. Did you service yourself while lying next to her sleeping body - maybe she's mad you didn't wake her and ask her to join in? Seriously I don't know.
She isn't scared.
You don't have to wonder.
I'm letting you know.
So you can remove this idea from your head.
You've had sex since then, you sleep together in the same bed, sometimes naked, she showers in front of you and all at the same time she is telling you she doesn't want to be with you anymore.
That is called teasing, some painful teasing at that. She is giving you plain view of the fruit that she doesn't want to share with you anymore.
A person who is scared wouldn't do that.
These are the actions of someone in complete control of a relationship and having alot of fun with it.
The "weed" episode pretty much proves that, drugs & alcohol don't make you do things you would never normally do, they give you confidence to do things and remove inhibitions to do things that you really wanted to do but were holding out for some reason.
As far as your gut, if you really listened to your gut instead of trying to mask the feelings that your gut is trying to communicate to you with your flawed logic, you might get somewhere eventually.
RobX - I appreciate your honesty. The bottom line is that I really don't know what all the sexual stuff means to her - if she's not being honest, I can't force her too. If she's simply using that as her justification to finally leave a marriage she is unhappy in, then she is. I can't beat the truth out of her!
There were several times in our relationship where I treated her like meat - and way beyond just groping. Her sexual abuse as a child made all this worse. She asked several times for me not to do it again, and I did repeatedly. I still don't want to be graphic, but during the final violation it lasted a long time and was brutal. It was legally and morally rape. Trust me. She was sore for days after.
My gut still tells me there is no OM. I almost hope there is. There is little snooping I can do now. She has her own cell and laptop paid for by her company. Both have been been locked for years- thanks to my previous snooping.
Really, at this point, until there is proof or she decides to come clean, I have lots of other things to focus on and can't waste time or energy on the unknown.
