Besides which, it's a good demonstration of the *reality* of the separation she is choosing. It's all fun and games to go out drinking and still come home to a warm body in your bed. Stop serving cake. IMHO.
While we're on the subject, I think you need to consider carefully what *she* would need to do to win *you* back, should it arise. Addressing her drinking would certainly appear on that list. Not trying to get you into the snatching-at-crumbs "hopeful" headspace; more like pointing out that being married, cherished, and forgiven is a privilege for *both* partners. Don't sell yourself short.
Yesterday I posted that she has no interest in my warm body. But, read my post prior to this and well.....
I have really been thinking about what I would want from my WAW if we were to ever start over. Suddenly, I am aware of just how much about our marriage was not so great. I was simply so busy with day to day stuff, I never took the time to really think about my own happiness.
Maybe WAW is right. I love her, but do I truly like her?
EVERY marriage has its problems. It's not so much about "love" and "like" as it is about healthy BOUNDARIES, and making sure YOU are looking out for your own happiness and interests in the marriage.
Because if you don't learn to do that now, in THIS relationship, you will only repeat the same mistakes in your NEXT one.
EVERY marriage has its problems. It's not so much about "love" and "like" as it is about healthy BOUNDARIES, and making sure YOU are looking out for your own happiness and interests in the marriage.
Because if you don't learn to do that now, in THIS relationship, you will only repeat the same mistakes in your NEXT one.
Things between WAW and I have been very calm the last few days. If I didn't know better, even I would think everything is great.
WAW continues to show signs that her move out is nothing more than that in her mind. Right now in addition to her usual physical issues, she has a very bad flu. Last night she asked me to rub her back and wanted to lie with her head in my lap. I allowed that just long enough for her to enjoy it and then left the room to watch hockey elsewhere in house.
WAW said "after I move out, will you still look after me when I am sick?" I said "no, we will be separated - you can't have the best of both worlds". Later, I relented a bit when she asked again.
I think she is starting to question the validity of moving out, but will be too proud to change her mind since she is this far. This could be a big waste of money in order for she and I to both "feel whole" as she said last night.
I will keep being the nice guy and giving her something to really miss even into December as she "moves out slowly". But, i think she is in for a big surprise in January when I politely request real separation for a while.
I am starting to think my WAW is suffering somewhat from MLC.
This whole thing is becoming less sad for me and almost entertaining.
WAW said "after I move out, will you still look after me when I am sick?" I said "no, we will be separated - you can't have the best of both worlds". Later, I relented a bit when she asked again.
Fail. You needed to stand your ground. She was testing you to see if she could get you to change for her. Remember Cunningham" "If you can't stand up TO her how can you stand up FOR her".
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I think she is starting to question the validity of moving out, but will be too proud to change her mind since she is this far. This could be a big waste of money in order for she and I to both "feel whole" as she said last night.
I agree. That's why YOU need to make sure that YOU don't offer her the ability to change her mind. Encourage the move. If you make it too easy she won't respect you. Trust me, I know what I'm talking about.
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I will keep being the nice guy and giving her something to really miss even into December as she "moves out slowly". But, i think she is in for a big surprise in January when I politely request real separation for a while.
Replace 'nice guy' with 'real man'. Otherwise I agree with this.
I made a lot of these mistakes and learned from them as my divorce progressed. Now it's filed and will be final in a few weeks. It's too late for me, and realistically, she hasn't changed so I would be foolish to put effort into anything except being the man I am meant to be.
I would really appreciate some feedback from the pros, expecially those who have followed my thread regarding the following:
This could be a long post, so patience please...
As many of you may already know, one thing that has always bothered my WAW is that I am so black and white and she is not. Even now, as we lead up to the day she moves out, she is still very gray about the future of our marriage, the type of realtionship we will have after she moves etc. So...being "gray" would be a 180 for me and would certainly be appreciated by my WAW. That leads me to a couple of questions.....
My company XMAS part is December 5, but I must give notice by November 23 if I will be attending and if I will be bringing a guest. WAW says she will attend if I want her too - even though that is only 4 days after she moves out. I know it would be good dbing to tell her that once she has the keys to her apartment she should be there. But...we have already agreed to her moving out slowly to keep things as comfortable as possible for the family vacation at XMAS time. I aslo know it would be great GAL and dbing in general to tell her I don't want her to go to my company party. But........
Would taking her to the party and letting the move out be slow (maybe even have her sleep in our bedroom) be a major 180 by being gray? WAW still doesn't seem to think that our separation must lead to divorce. She literally is living one day at a time and to quote her "if we wind up together, then we do - if we wind up divorced, then we do". At this point (and it could change) she hasn't ruled out us dating during the separation - or even sex.
Yes, she is cake eating to some extent, but she is also just being her genuine self. Something I often didn't let her do comfortably. Again, this would be a 180 for me. She would certainly see this as loving her unconditionally.
I believe, that if I keep being friendly, polite and remove pressure, but let things be fun when we are together, it will leave the door open to a possibility of rebuilding our relationship over the next year.
We both plan on real separation beginning in January. I need the time to deal with reality and she needs time to heal. But, between now and then I am not sure what to do. I also don't know how long that real separation will last, but will deal with that later.
Your comments and thoughts are appreciated. Do I "hardcore db" and make my WAW only live in her new world (but even that will allow time at house with kids) which will appear to be more of the same black and white to my WAW - or should I be gray and go with the flow and let WAW see that I can be different?
You seem to be carefully building and phrasing your entire post to elicit the type of answer you already want to get, and that is "yes, you should be 'gray' (not even sure what that is, to be honest with you) -- go to the party together, be The Nice Guy," etc., etc.
This jumped out of your post at me:
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Even now, as we lead up to the day she moves out, she is still very gray about the future of our marriage, the type of realtionship we will have after she moves etc.
and this:
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WAW still doesn't seem to think that our separation must lead to divorce. She literally is living one day at a time and to quote her "if we wind up together, then we do - if we wind up divorced, then we do". At this point (and it could change) she hasn't ruled out us dating during the separation - or even sex.
Why is SHE calling all the shots here, about what will and will not be? These are the "crumbs" I was referring to earlier -- you seem content with whatever crumb she throws at you.
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Yes, she is cake eating to some extent, but she is also just being her genuine self.
Food for thought:
Is "her genuine self" what BeTheMan needs in order to have a healthy, happy marital relationship?
I see you supplicating, and I don't think that's healthy for your OWN self-esteem, and I also don't think it's going to give her what SHE needs, and that is -- as Kettricken posted to you above -- to own her own consequences.
Puppy: let my try to explain the gray thing: I have always been the king of person that goes 100% one way - unless I switch to 100% the other way. It's not a great thing in general and has always bothered my wife. She clearlyy tells me now that she wishes I could just not have our relationship defined in any specific way. I suppose she is actually dbing me - she is GAL, living strong without needing me and making a major life change for her. She said yesterday "it's not about our marriage, it's about me instead of you or the kids".
She is absolutely calling the shots for the first time in our life. She is not saying that anything will or won't be a certain way - just that she has not made any final decision on the future, but is doing what she needs for her right now.
Yes, WAW being herself is what I want for us to have a healthy marriage. She has never felt that she could really be her - that I always stifled her and never really liked the real her. Do I like what that means for us right now? - no - but it's reality and I have to deal with it.
Puppy, to be perfectly honest I am afraid that if I don't keep some kind of relationship between us, and have her own her consequences, she just might love her life without me so much, she would completley decide against reconciliation. Again, it's like she's dbing me! The more comfortable she is her new life, the more I want her back. I am truly afraid that if I let her go fully, she will never come back.
But at the same time, I am being honest when I say that not being black and white would be a huge 180 for me and a change that WAW would love to see. She HATES when I am all or nothing. It's an aspect of my personality that I would like to change no matter what.
So....are you saying that it would be improper dbing to take her to the party? She doesn't really care to go, but simply said she would if I wanted her to. Would it send a strong message about my ability to GAL and move forward by not taking her? I am not sure which I would prefer. At some point, I hope to "date" each other while we are separated and this would be a good start. The final decision in 100% mine, I'm just not sure what will be best for the future.
