I think the detaching after the move out will be the toughest part for me. I don't think I will be concerned about the specifics of what she is doing, but more how much she is enjoying single life. Will she enjoy it so much, that regardless of what I do, she will have no interest in our second marriage?
I know from a DB point of view, I have made it all too easy for her to move out and cake eat. I hope that if I apply all other db principles properly, she will see the positive aspects of working at our marriage. The reality is there will still be work to do, and it would be much easier for her to continue on in her new world. All the hard work of that will be over.
If I think about this objectively, why would any "hurt, destoyed" WAW with grown kids even consider taking the risk, when they are already well past the toughest part of ending a marriage - making the decision, moving, setting up the apartment etc? I am trying to not be negative, but also being realistic.
I know we are not supposed to live for the outcome, but I think if we are all 100% honest, we will admit that's it always on our minds. We are humans, not aliens.
If I think about this objectively, why would any "hurt, destoyed" WAW with grown kids even consider taking the risk, when they are already well past the toughest part of ending a marriage - making the decision, moving, setting up the apartment etc? I am trying to not be negative, but also being realistic.
Because eventually the hurt subsides, you change, she changes and maybe the attraction comes back again.
However, as we all know, both people must change and heal for it to even be possible.
It's the healing part that makes me think our separation could be a good thing. I don't think my WAW could ever truly heal as long as she was in a place she felt she didn't want to be.
As for attraction, I wish my overwhelming physical attraction to her would go away! Hopefully, not seeing her regularly and certainly not seeing her naked will help. At this moment, we still sleep (naked sometimes) in the same bed and I still see her in the shower etc - it kills me! Living celibate for a year, or longer sure will be easier without the temptation of my beautiful WAW in front of me.
As for attraction, I wish my overwhelming physical attraction to her would go away! Hopefully, not seeing her regularly and certainly not seeing her naked will help. At this moment, we still sleep (naked sometimes) in the same bed and I still see her in the shower etc - it kills me! Living celibate for a year, or longer sure will be easier without the temptation of my beautiful WAW in front of me.
I realize this is kind of a moot point since she's moving out imminently .. but I'm going to give you the same advice I gave Thinker. If it's killing you to wander around in the candy store while you're forbidden to eat any candy, then stop. Stop sleeping with her. Ask that she cover up a bit around the house, or at least you avoid situations where you will see her naked to the best of your ability. Nobody else is going to take care of you in this area; you have to do it.
I would hazard a guess that either she doesn't know how much (and negatively) this affects you, or does know and gets off a little on the power. Either way, do you want to enable that?
Besides which, it's a good demonstration of the *reality* of the separation she is choosing. It's all fun and games to go out drinking and still come home to a warm body in your bed. Stop serving cake. IMHO.
While we're on the subject, I think you need to consider carefully what *she* would need to do to win *you* back, should it arise. Addressing her drinking would certainly appear on that list. Not trying to get you into the snatching-at-crumbs "hopeful" headspace; more like pointing out that being married, cherished, and forgiven is a privilege for *both* partners. Don't sell yourself short.
"Show me a completely smooth operation and I'll show you someone who's covering mistakes. Real boats rock." -- Frank Herbert
I realize this is kind of a moot point since she's moving out imminently .. but I'm going to give you the same advice I gave Thinker. If it's killing you to wander around in the candy store while you're forbidden to eat any candy, then stop. Stop sleeping with her. Ask that she cover up a bit around the house, or at least you avoid situations where you will see her naked to the best of your ability. Nobody else is going to take care of you in this area; you have to do it.
In other words, assert yourself and set boundaries. Stop being afraid you'll say/do things that might 'push her away'.
Believe me, she WANTS you to be assertive, confident and set boundaries with her. She wants to see a real man in her life.
I will keep sleeping with her for the next couple of weeks, simply because I refuse to give up my bed. I just have to try harder not to look when she becomes uncovered during the night.
I doubt she even thinks about how it affects me. As for her coming home to a warm body - my body is of no interest to her. The reality of that part of the separation is the best for her. She still says the final decision to leave now was due to the night I violated her in a drunken/drugged state. She uses the word "safe" a lot. I think she's being quite honest - but if that's the case, how can she stand sleeping the same bed now?? No need to go over that again - it's been discussed several times in this thread.
As for her winning me back, that's a long way from happening, but I have thought of that. Our second marriage would start differently than the first. There would be open discussion regarding expectations. She would need to have her drinking under control, really be looking after her physical illness issues, be far more open and responsible regarding finances and her on again / off again smoking would hopefully be done, or at the very least more off than on. While I am happy about making some changes in me, she would need to love me unconditionally too.
Over the years, WAW often said that I love her, but don't really like her. There's some truth there. The second time around she would need to like me too. I have so much guilt and shame right now, but I still know I am not a bad man and I deserve to be cherished too.
Over the years, WAW often said that I love her, but don't really like her. There's some truth there. The second time around she would need to like me too. I have so much guilt and shame right now, but I still know I am not a bad man and I deserve to be cherished too.
See, that's the thing here. Too often we think we need to 'win back' our WAS's. 3 years ago when I DB'd and 'won her back' that was a HUGE f'ing mistake on my part.
I had made a lot of changes, I was strong and together. I was STARTING to think that I didn't WANT her back. Then she came back.
What I didn't see was that I needed HER to win ME back. But I made it too easy. I adopted the attitude that I 'won' her back. So I did most of the work. She didn't have to do anything really. She didn't have to change.
Fast forward to 2 years ago and everything went back to the way it was. Bad. Here we are again only this time we ARE being divorced.
Same actions, new OM, want's to be happy, kids are devastated.
Because when she had her affair, I didn't grow enough in my self worth to feel that I WAS WORTH FIGHTING FOR. Not just my marriage, but ME.
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I still know I am not a bad man and I deserve to be cherished too.
So, as my counselor said to me the other day:
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When are you going to stop giving to someone who isn't going to give you what you want in return?
Sometimes, when you stop, they miss it and try to get it back. Especially if you feel GOOD about stopping.
I have been so focused on the fact that she's leaving me, I have missed the fact that she is leaving me. She is choosing to walk out rather than any other option. While I understand why she is doing it, I am only starting to become aware that I have the right to be angry - not just sad.
I have been so focused on the fact that she's leaving me, I have missed the fact that she is leaving me. She is choosing to walk out rather than any other option. While I understand why she is doing it, I am only starting to become aware that I have the right to be angry - not just sad.
Yep. It's only taken me almost 2 years of struggling with that - being angry is OK. WE are not required to always be the ones saving things. They need to do their part - and they won't.
Last night I went to bed rather early. WAW came home late from work and got in bed. I was half asleep, but realized she was crying. She was upset about impending death of her grandmother and how her family is handling end of life car, funeral arrangements, etc. There is very little money in the family, and if were not our current situation, I would offer up money to give the woman a respectful burial etc. I'm not sure WAW gets the point that we can't help out financially due to WAW needs.
I consoled WAW and she wound up lying on my chest and talking. That turned to spooning - which in "normal" times often leads to sex. Well....last night it almost did as well. We came very close, but WAW said something like "we shouldn't do this right now" and something about me being "black and white". She says that a lot lately. Likely because she is living in gray.
Anyway, I also decided it was not the right thing at the right time and turned away from WAW and went to sleep. This morning WAW was still very upset about her grandmother, but neither of us mentioned the physical stuff from last night.
Once again, though, it appears that the woman who said she needs to move out now because she doesn't feel safe, is acting differently than what she says.
