It's out of character. He's a computer nerd, remember? However, most of his family is big on pharmaceuticals - prescribed or otherwise. I don't know what it was about. I dropped it. He'll tell me if he feels like it.
He was just super exhausted all weekend and I had to stop myself from being suspicious and paranoid. Given he hardly parties, I guess it's not a bad sign in general. In fact, it was so weird BECAUSE it was so out of character!
Well we aren't going to therapy. Back to darkness.
H freaked out about the "legal ramifications" of going to MC with me before a sep agreement is signed, and I didnt' want to deal with his craziness. I told him I wanted to cancel.
I took control of the situation. I realize now it's all a ploy anyhow to rearrange the situation with our son. H wants to have him at his apt. I think and he knows I won't go for it. It's going to be a tough discussion which is why I originally thought MC was a good place for it.
But if he's going to be nervous and controlling about it, I can't see how this will help. He may not even open up or feel safe listening to my side if he's so worried about what he says could be used in court against him down the line.
I feel good that I took control and told him I'd just go alone to the C session.
Now it's up to him to continue to make nice and have a civil conversation with me if he wants to negotiate with me.
What I'm wondering today is - all the niceness I saw the last week and a half - was this a result of my good DBing - my not calling him, getting off the phone first, having a back up plan to leave as soon as he gets angry - not pursuing etc.
Or, was it all a ploy on his part to butter me up so he could get something he wants from me?
This is such a hell.
I must not be doing DB right. I'm not seeing results as much as I thought. I read SP's great post and sure, I'm stopping a D, but I don't really see any point when there's no M? Any advice?
Well we aren't going to therapy. Back to darkness.
H freaked out about the "legal ramifications" of going to MC with me before a sep agreement is signed, and I didnt' want to deal with his craziness. I told him I wanted to cancel.
I took control of the situation. I realize now it's all a ploy anyhow to rearrange the situation with our son. H wants to have him at his apt. I think and he knows I won't go for it. It's going to be a tough discussion which is why I originally thought MC was a good place for it.
But if he's going to be nervous and controlling about it, I can't see how this will help. He may not even open up or feel safe listening to my side if he's so worried about what he says could be used in court against him down the line.
I feel good that I took control and told him I'd just go alone to the C session.
Now it's up to him to continue to make nice and have a civil conversation with me if he wants to negotiate with me.
What I'm wondering today is - all the niceness I saw the last week and a half - was this a result of my good DBing - my not calling him, getting off the phone first, having a back up plan to leave as soon as he gets angry - not pursuing etc.
Or, was it all a ploy on his part to butter me up so he could get something he wants from me?
This is such a hell.
I must not be doing DB right. I'm not seeing results as much as I thought. I read SP's great post and sure, I'm stopping a D, but I don't really see any point when there's no M? Any advice?
Hope,
First, you did the right thing, as long as you did what was right for YOU.
Second, if your H is using drugs, no way, no how should S be around that. PERIOD. You have to protect S from that.
Third, as far as why he did anything, it is a question we all want answered, but, in the end, it doesn't matter. B/c the point is not to understand why. The point is to get ourselves to a point where we can handle whatever comes our way. That's tough, but it is the truth. None of us controls where our M's will end up. We only control how we react to it.
So, re-group on what your plan is. Sounds like pulling back from H for a while may not be a bad idea. Not being rude, but being lovingly detached.
Well we aren't going to therapy. Back to darkness.
H freaked out about the "legal ramifications" of going to MC with me before a sep agreement is signed, and I didnt' want to deal with his craziness. I told him I wanted to cancel.
I took control of the situation. I realize now it's all a ploy anyhow to rearrange the situation with our son. H wants to have him at his apt. I think and he knows I won't go for it. It's going to be a tough discussion which is why I originally thought MC was a good place for it.
Hope,
While it is true that both the C and the C's notes can be subpoenaed, my understanding is that happens in only the most extreme cases. If your H is so concerned about "legal ramifications" then he simply needs to be careful about what he says in therapy. In fact, the whole "legal ramifications" argument is a bunch of baloney- it's a cop out. It seems to me that if anything, the SMART thing for your H to do would be to embrace MC at this point, especially after admitting to taking drugs at the party. Taking drugs at the party shows a lack of stability and poor judgment on his part- issues that can and will have a bearing on his shared custody of your S. If the MC is part of your H's ploy to gain some sort of "advantage" in gaining custody of your S, I'd say it isn't very well thought out to say the least. In fact, I think the whole drug use episode is really a cry for help.
I think the fact that you are asserting yourself to take control of the situation is great and is demonstrative of the personal growth you have experienced these past few months. But I think you are missing out on capitalizing on a potential pivotal moment by excusing your H from attending MC. It really does not matter what you think or know your H's agenda is going into MC. It is irrelevant. I suspect that you may be assuming that the conversation with the C is going to go in a certain direction based upon someone's agenda. It is not. Same thing applies with regards to how you think H is going to react while in MC (nervous and/or controlling)- these are going to be very short lived issues in the MC sessions. As far as your H not wanting to talk much- that is fine too since he will benefit from just listening to your interaction with the MC and the feedback the MC has to offer. I suspect that it won't take long for your H to "open up" in MC either.
Quote:
Now it's up to him to continue to make nice and have a civil conversation with me if he wants to negotiate with me.
What I'm wondering today is - all the niceness I saw the last week and a half - was this a result of my good DBing - my not calling him, getting off the phone first, having a back up plan to leave as soon as he gets angry - not pursuing etc.
Or, was it all a ploy on his part to butter me up so he could get something he wants from me?
From your description, it sounds like your H is making an honest effort. What he has demonstrated this past week and a half may be all your H is capable of right now. Be the bigger person, be charitable and give him the benefit of the doubt.
Quote:
I must not be doing DB right. I'm not seeing results as much as I thought. I read SP's great post and sure, I'm stopping a D, but I don't really see any point when there's no M? Any advice?
I think you are doing better than you think! As far as my advice goes, it remain the same: Get your H to MC no matter what. Let him continue to think he is the brainiac in control of the sitch, it's all part of his master plan. Whatever. Let him think he is going to control the conversation in MC and be able to say whatever he wants. (The C may very well indulge him for awhile too, but don't worry about that.) If he needs a push in the right direction, point out that the drug use at the party was a lapse in judgment and that by attending MC he'll be demonstrating that he is "on top of things" and addressing the issue.
Once in MC, you need to be patient. Let the C do their job and draw your H into the conversation- allow him to open up. This may come during the first session or it could be the third or fourth session. Just treat these first few sessions as your H's own personal C sessions disguised as MC sessions. Once in MC, I can give you more ideas/suggestions to consider.
I think that MC is the best thing you can do for yourself and especially your H right now. Good Luck!
M: 41 W: 39 S: 11 S: 10 D: 4 1st contact w/OM: 1/19/09 EA began: 2/14/09 EA discovered: 3/1/09 I file for D 8/25/09 to protect myself _______________________________
thanks guys. We'll get to MC, but not now. After the papers are signed. Apparentely, I realized last night, H only agreed to go this one time and to discuss possibly taking S out of the house (we're not talking after a D, we're talking now while we're in limbo. I realized I'm more interested in postponing that discussion, because I'm happiest having H come here to be with S.
All the stuff BJ says about MC can only come when he's committed to MC for a while. If. I'm just laying low now because I don't know.
I will try to not be distrustful and give him the benefit of the doubt.
However, he is very poed at me right now. did I mentioned I spilled a smoothie in the living room and some got in his stereo receiver? He's cleaning it out and it may survive but he is furious at me and has been cold and distant ever since. It's another mistake that proves to him how unreliable, flakey, untrustworthy I am - in his mind. He even posted on twitter about how he's cleaning bluberries out of his receiver - and ended with "Don't ask..." which of course is an invitation to ask and he knows I will read that. I don't appreciate the public humiliation but I will say absolutely nothing. It's not worth losing my inner peace over.
However, I do get a sense of panic. This just instantly killed the goodwill between us. It's another instance of me feeling like "I f***ed it all up again."
On a more positive note, I texted H today saying I'd be happy to stay home tonight if H wanted to go to his apt after putting S to bed, or I'd be happy to stay elsewhere. H actually said he'd be home and didn't mind if I was too. I couldn't believe it.
so I'm in the back room, he's in the living room presumably cleaning his stereo and working and whatever. But he didn't ask me to leave. For what it's worth.
I have to say that it isn't clear to me that he has a very realistic picture of what a balanced relationship between two adults looks like. I mean, could you have handled the Smoothie thing differently? Sure. But you knew how he would react, and he didn't disappoint. That's not how things should be, really, is it?
Second, if your H is using drugs, no way, no how should S be around that. PERIOD. You have to protect S from that.
Third, as far as why he did anything, it is a question we all want answered, but, in the end, it doesn't matter. B/c the point is not to understand why. The point is to get ourselves to a point where we can handle whatever comes our way. That's tough, but it is the truth. None of us controls where our M's will end up. We only control how we react to it.
So, re-group on what your plan is. Sounds like pulling back from H for a while may not be a bad idea. Not being rude, but being lovingly detached.
About drugs, that's a good point, I should talk to my lawyer. Like I said, it's out of character, but he is also "self medicating" for anxiety and stress - it's a concern. Unfortunately, he does it all "off record" in other words, he absolutely makes sure his medical record is squeaky clean, then he diagnoses himself and gets the meds online without prescription. It's weird.
As for "why" - I guess my tendency is to ALWAYS blame myself. I guess I don't have to do this
It's weird - even through all the anger, the abuse, moving out, blaming me - I still remember the man I fell in love with who I could share anything with and he totally "got" me. I could trust him with anything. I don't know where that man is anymore, but I keep feeling he's in there somewhere. When the anger cools, perhaps that sweet person will feel ready to trust again. I just have no idea. Maybe he's gone for good. Maybe he never existed. All I know is I'm ready for someone who can love me even if I mess up. Even if I hurt them. Even if I ruin their stereo, or say things I should not have in anger, or scream and fight, or any other mistakes I've made. That no matter how hurtful I've been I'm ready for someone who knows in my heart I'm a good person and I care and I'm ready to give and receive love. Someone who can forgive and have compassion. I thought I married such a man, but he seems gone now.
I really appreciate all of your support. I wish I could afford a DB coach but I really can't as my H is the breadwinner and I"m the at home mom and I'm about to have a small piece of the pie - so that I can stay in the house. And, he pays the credit card bill so if he saw the DB charge - oooh, there'd be questions. So keep me on the DB straight and narrow friends! You're all I've got for now!
I have to say that it isn't clear to me that he has a very realistic picture of what a balanced relationship between two adults looks like. I mean, could you have handled the Smoothie thing differently? Sure. But you knew how he would react, and he didn't disappoint. That's not how things should be, really, is it?
That's the mess we've been in for so long, VH. You got it. How can I fess up to a tyrant? But that doesn't excuse me not telling him. I'm damned if I do and damned if I don't but I should have told him instead of him finding crusted smoothie on his stereo. But what's a bigger price to pay when broken - a new stereo, or a person's heart? Thank you for reminding me that he doesn't understand a balanced relationship. No, we have an angry uptight man, and a woman who is constantly feeling like a screw up. Well I'm trying very hard to build my self esteem.
But then, of course we're all here because things aren't as they should be. But would he have been as uptight, angry, and cold about this situation before we separated? Most likely. I'm just so ashamed and mad at myself .It's like a curse. He walks in the door, I break or spill something. and just when things were starting to go better.
As for "why" - I guess my tendency is to ALWAYS blame myself. I guess I don't have to do this
No, Hope, you don't. This HAS to change regardless of whether you stay M'd or not. Humility and self awareness are one thing (healthy to an extent). But, always blaming yourself indicates you do not perceive yourself as valuable and with a high worth. Really, just basic self esteem.
Now, it sounds like your H has fostered this kind of thnking. But, you don't get off free here - you let that happen. You can't change HIS thoughts/words, but you sure as he!! can change whether YOU let this kind of thinking happen. DON'T. It is not productive or healthy.
And, I get this too:
Quote:
It's weird - even through all the anger, the abuse, moving out, blaming me - I still remember the man I fell in love with who I could share anything with and he totally "got" me. I could trust him with anything. I don't know where that man is anymore, but I keep feeling he's in there somewhere. When the anger cools, perhaps that sweet person will feel ready to trust again. I just have no idea. Maybe he's gone for good. Maybe he never existed. All I know is I'm ready for someone who can love me even if I mess up. Even if I hurt them. Even if I ruin their stereo, or say things I should not have in anger, or scream and fight, or any other mistakes I've made. That no matter how hurtful I've been I'm ready for someone who knows in my heart I'm a good person and I care and I'm ready to give and receive love. Someone who can forgive and have compassion. I thought I married such a man, but he seems gone now.
I'm pretty sure just about everyone on these boards could say the person they M'd isn't there anymore. I know I can. So, I feel for you - I really do.
And the I want to be M'd to someone who loves me no matter what - well, in my book, that IS the definition of M. And it is EXACTLY what I crave. But before that can happen, we have to love ourselves and learn to be happy just being alone. Only then can we have the ability to have a truly happy, loving R with another person.
Finally, realize that you ARE worthy of such a R, and you deserve it. Your H is not acting like a loving H. And I agree with VH that your H doesn't seem to understand what a M is - a partnership, not a dictatorship.
But before that can happen, we have to love ourselves and learn to be happy just being alone. Only then can we have the ability to have a truly happy, loving R with another person.
Finally, realize that you ARE worthy of such a R, and you deserve it. Your H is not acting like a loving H. And I agree with VH that your H doesn't seem to understand what a M is - a partnership, not a dictatorship.
Is it true? The ability to be alone is the key to finding a happy M? Talk about counter intuitive!
I'm trying not to call H. Keep up the space and distance that worked last week. But today all day I've had enormous panic attacks - like how can I make it through this. How can I act as if when I feel like I'm dying inside?
Sorry to be so down. It just seems so many on this forum don't bring their spouses back and I"m feeling hopeless. How to keep a PMA when I'm suffering from panic and depression?
