I forgot to ask. What does MWD stand for? As in Coach's comment "Dbing principles are not unique to MWD".
Michele Weiner-Davis, our gracious host.
Originally Posted By: Indy36
And again, let me clairfy, I am only going to use the ideas in Love Dare and alter them to fit our situation. If one seems needy or will feel like pursuing, I will simply skip that one, or alter it greatly.
The Love Dare might be a good tool when you are piecing your relationship back together. That's what I'm saving my copy for.
Me: 44, Wife: 39 M: 17 years T: 20 years Bomb on 08/25/09 1/13/10: MC started 1/28/10, 2/8/10: More bombs 8/28/10: Wife moved out No talk of D, no movement
Very positive comment: "when you are piecing...." not "if".
I may never get that chance, so for now I will stay with my plan of learning from it and applying some of the ideas within the context of our current situation and then should I ever be granted the chance, I can do them even better the second time around at full force.
Very positive comment: "when you are piecing...." not "if".
Heh, I didn't even think of it that way, but yeah, it is.
I think I'm on the verge of that with my wife; she seems to be more comfortable around me and talks about plans in the future (holidays and stuff). She was worried about her paycheck being so small due to all of the time she missed due to her surgery and how we would cover our expenses for the next couple of weeks.
The big roadblock is the physical intimacy issue. When she's ready to deal with that, I will be there.
Originally Posted By: Indy36
I may never get that chance, so for now I will stay with my plan of learning from it and applying some of the ideas within the context of our current situation and then should I ever be granted the chance, I can do them even better the second time around at full force.
This is true. When my wife told me that she didn't want to be in this situation again, a few years down the road, I told her that I had no intention of being in this situation again, with anyone.
If -- when -- she is ready to trust me again, I will be able to show her that. Until then, I have to keep on keepin' on...
Me: 44, Wife: 39 M: 17 years T: 20 years Bomb on 08/25/09 1/13/10: MC started 1/28/10, 2/8/10: More bombs 8/28/10: Wife moved out No talk of D, no movement
Trent - Since you and I have the ill spouse in common, we should likely keep track of each other.
Although..I am further down the road than you and not in a good way. My waw is actually going to walk Dec 1st - well limp for that month and then walk (maybe even run) in January.
Although..I am further down the road than you and not in a good way. My waw is actually going to walk Dec 1st - well limp for that month and then walk (maybe even run) in January.
My wife is recovering nicely from surgery, and things seem to be at an impasse right now.
She's not talking about leaving per se, but there are definitely things we need to do (like joint MC!) if we're going to be able to rebuild this. The last time we had a R talk, she acknowledged this but wasn't sure when she'd be ready for MC.
She's still on the mend for another week or so, so I have plenty of time to work on myself while I wait...
Me: 44, Wife: 39 M: 17 years T: 20 years Bomb on 08/25/09 1/13/10: MC started 1/28/10, 2/8/10: More bombs 8/28/10: Wife moved out No talk of D, no movement
Other than the financial aspect, I am not going to help wife move. I don't think she even wants me to. She says she doesn't even want me to know where her apartment is, and that's fine with me. At this point, she says she still plans on being in the house quite often. She even said she will still do the Sunday cleaning and make Sunday dinners. I know that by allowing that I will be letting her have the best of both worlds and that goes against db philosophy. But I think dbing is only one philosophy and is not 100% right for all situations.In dbing, we try to make it tough for them to live their "fantasy". I have decided that if my wife chooses that fantasy life, then so be it. If on the other hand, she chooses to come back, then I know she came back only because our "second marriage" will truly be a better option than anything else. I only want to try a second time, if it's 100% genuine and real.
Indy,
On the one hand, you appear to be taking a passive, almost fatalistic approach ("if my wife chooses" . . . "so be it" . . . ).
And you say you don't want to try anything if it's not "genuine and real," as a rationale for why you seem to be rejecting most (not all) of the DB playbook and most all of the advice you've received here.
And that's fine.
But then you advocate for "The Love Dare," and its principles (which are very "pursuing" and anti-DB).
It seems to me that you DO believe in trying to do something actively to save your marriage, but only if it fits your more passive, eager-to-please nature.
That's not a criticism -- just an observation. But I just don't understand why you keep asking everyone for advice, when you seem pretty hell-bent on following your own instincts, which -- let's be fair -- kinda helped play a role in getting you into this mess in the first place??
Puppy - You are correct that my instincts (or my lack of level headedness) got me into this mess. And I did not db properly this time. I know that now.
I don't mean to take a fatalistic approach - more of a realistic approach. I simply don't want to set myself up for disappointment down the road. And..I need to keep reminding myself that the things I do can't be done just to win her back. I need that. That's the way I am.
I'm not sure I do advocate the Love Dare. I have only read the first 2 "days". Maybe after that I will drop it if it is pursuing. I don't know at this point what is in the whole book. I am thinking that maybe I can combine two schools of thought. That's all. It appears that those of you who have read it, feel otherwise - and that's why I asked. So I will heed the advice. Maybe read some more of it anyway, but not do the dares. Maybe drop it entirely.
Your point about my passive, eager to please nature is valid. That I will have to keep in mind.
I'm just trying to make sure that over the next 2 months, I make sure I give wife something to miss - and then after she has moved out, moved to a different phase of dbing. As I asked (or tried to) should I go virtually dark after the move out? I obviously have not got this right this time around, so I will listen.
Other than the financial aspect, I am not going to help wife move. I don't think she even wants me to. She says she doesn't even want me to know where her apartment is, and that's fine with me. At this point, she says she still plans on being in the house quite often. She even said she will still do the Sunday cleaning and make Sunday dinners. I know that by allowing that I will be letting her have the best of both worlds and that goes against db philosophy. But I think dbing is only one philosophy and is not 100% right for all situations.In dbing, we try to make it tough for them to live their "fantasy". I have decided that if my wife chooses that fantasy life, then so be it. If on the other hand, she chooses to come back, then I know she came back only because our "second marriage" will truly be a better option than anything else. I only want to try a second time, if it's 100% genuine and real.
Indy,
On the one hand, you appear to be taking a passive, almost fatalistic approach ("if my wife chooses" . . . "so be it" . . . ).
And you say you don't want to try anything if it's not "genuine and real," as a rationale for why you seem to be rejecting most (not all) of the DB playbook and most all of the advice you've received here.
And that's fine.
But then you advocate for "The Love Dare," and its principles (which are very "pursuing" and anti-DB).
It seems to me that you DO believe in trying to do something actively to save your marriage, but only if it fits your more passive, eager-to-please nature.
That's not a criticism -- just an observation. But I just don't understand why you keep asking everyone for advice, when you seem pretty hell-bent on following your own instincts, which -- let's be fair -- kinda helped play a role in getting you into this mess in the first place??
Puppy - You are correct that my instincts (or my lack of level headedness) got me into this mess. And I did not db properly this time. I know that now.
I don't mean to take a fatalistic approach - more of a realistic approach. I simply don't want to set myself up for disappointment down the road. And..I need to keep reminding myself that the things I do can't be done just to win her back. I need that. That's the way I am.
I'm not sure I do advocate the Love Dare. I have only read the first 2 "days". Maybe after that I will drop it if it is pursuing. I don't know at this point what is in the whole book. I am thinking that maybe I can combine two schools of thought. That's all. It appears that those of you who have read it, feel otherwise - and that's why I asked. So I will heed the advice. Maybe read some more of it anyway, but not do the dares. Maybe drop it entirely.
Your point about my passive, eager to please nature is valid. That I will have to keep in mind.
I'm just trying to make sure that over the next 2 months, I make sure I give wife something to miss - and then after she has moved out, moved to a different phase of dbing. As I asked (or tried to) should I go virtually dark after the move out? I obviously have not got this right this time around, so I will listen.
How can she miss you at all? You're always there! You never got a life, I think you mentioned XBOX as getting a life, so you were home "getting a life" - that's not how it works. Getting a life means getting out of the house, getting involved in something different, something that makes you do different things, change thought patterns, change behaviors, etc.
You have never given her the gift of missing you.
From my own obvervation indy, you try a little of this, a little of that, some of this, some of that, waited a few days, didn't work, back to square one, I'll be me again, repeat all the bad behavior and then ask myself why nothing is working.
That sounds pretty accurate to me.
You want a quick fix to a problem that took years in the making, you said it yourself, you've been here before a few years back.
No quick fixes. Quick fixes are crap.
Real fixes require real effort, a change in your mindset, clarity, opening your eyes, changing your patterns of behavior, changing you and then several months to a year from now, you'll look back at how you were now and shake your head and say to yourself, "I can't believe i was that guy, I wouldn't want to be with that guy if I was my wife".
Clarity.
Start praying for clarity.
Until your eyes are really open about all of this, you won't ever see what needs to be done.
- I know you've mentioned that you overstepped some sexual boundaries with your wife but I don't think your marital problems hinge on this issue alone.
- Otherwise she wouldn't sleep in the same bed as you. Wouldn't "cuddle" with you as you've written a few times already.
- Heck you guys got high and had sex recently: getting drunk or high doesn't make you do things you would never do, they build up your confidence to stupid crazy levels and remove your inhibitions so that do the things you wanted to do. Regardless of what your wife says, she wanted to have sex with you that night: the weed or whatever else you were using was just the key that unlocked that door.
- She is still civil with you, from the sounds of how you describe it, she is even nice to you.
- didn't she bring you food from her work a week or so ago, why would someone do that for someone else if they didn't care for them?
Part of her likes you, possibly still loves you but another part of her is sick of crap behavior, your slacker attitude, your ability to quit something as soon as you start it: it sounds very boring, very lax, there is no excitement and she wants that sizzle to go with her steak if you know what I mean.
You've done some good work in some areas, you were there at the hospital for her and while she is recovering so you do have some redeeming qualities.
Time to be critical of yourself and look at you like someone else would look at you.
The trip idea, still a bad one.
Why not separate for a while and see if she still wants to go on a trip with you & the kids a few months from now.
Here's a 180, go on a trip without her & the kids.
Give her the gift of missing you.
Detach.
Let go of the outcome.
Assume you are separated & divorced already.
Limit your contact with her, keep your conversations quiet, respond to her when she talks but don't give her more than what she asks when she is talking to you.
You pursue to darn much and it's boring to her, she can have you whenever she wants to, she knows this, you aren't a challenge anymore, same old indy and she's evolving into someone different that wants her partner to evolve as well and you aren't.
As far as DB'ing, don't complain about DB'ing not working if you don't actually put some heart into it. If you were a boxer I'd call you "glass jaw indy", one punch and you're down. You have this defeatist attitude which your wife has no doubt felt.
Are you going to start DB'ing or are you just going to apologize that you couldn't DB because it didn't "feel right" or "it didn't apply to me and my situation, it's unique".
Yeah, we're all unique and yet we're all human, and we all had relationship issues at one time. This is your time, you going to sit on these forums and feel sorry for yourself or are you finally going to start moving on & get a life and give her the gift of missing you?
The hardest part about having a choice in all of this is not being used to wielding that kind of power in your life when you've been used to someone else calling the shots all the time with your life.
