Am so glad your sitch continues to improve. This is great news and I'm glad you are both taking the care and time to do this as well as you can.
RE: the OM sitch at work...having been exposed (professionally speaking), to clients with this problems let me say that although states vary, there are also federal laws on this that the EEOC usually handles. In NO state does Having a consensual R in the past give the Om the right to harass her now. That's analogous to a man/woman claiming a continued right to intercourse, based on a past R. Past consent is not consent today. Everyone has the right to change their mind as your w clearly has. Thank GOD! I see why you don't want to make a bigger deal than necessary about it for now. I do. But please, do Keep a record of the calls and emails. HR is a place to start before launching a full scale "attack" if the time comes. But the phrase "I Hate You" is disturbing to me. I did practice criminal law some years ago and had a lot of violent offenders. This statement and his willingness to put it in writing is very surprising and not in a good way. Be wary and careful please.
Robx, I cringed when I read your response to breakaway some time ago when she discussed her abusive h. You challenged her so forcefully it made me wonder if you thought she was lying or deserved it as you implied both...and without any need, in my opinion. Then when she painstakingly answered you in almost a point by point rebuttal, which basically proved your error but instead of apologizing like anyone else would have, you persisted! Tell me that's not personal...on the contrary, there is an intentionally personal angle to this that's odd, and pretty bullying of you. You have showed that to me & other women who dare to disagree with you. Then you pretend "it's all good" when a man calls you on it, but it is not. It's offensive and seems...punitive. I do hope your own sitch improves so that you will be reconciled with your w, but in the meantime I sense a tremendous amount of projection going on here. I know this will trigger a nasty personal attack but someone has to stand up to you other than breakaway and tell you to stop making this all about punishing, (especially punishing women). We are not all shrews who need discipline or idiots who need manipulation.
This thread really needs to be about Tristan and how things are going well for him, with care towards the sitch at work so nothing bad happens there. Everything breakaway said is true from a legal standpoint, (Yes, I'm qualified to say that) so I can't believe you went off on her about it.
Tristan, the semi-legal issue of concern about bringing this all up for your w is that the OM will either deny all of it, or he'll bring up their past as his defense, but it is not a legal defense. (It's an explanation. He can say he was confused if she hasn't been clear, but that's not the case from what you are saying. And his explanation is not a legal defense to harrassment). I totally understand your reluctance to stir things up more. My concern is her safety. I think it's very strange for the OM to have written that email, so tell us if we're off base here. I mention her safety b/c it is like what some of my former clients wrote to their 'soon to be beaten or killed' gf's or wives. Rejection's a b&^%$ when it comes to some of these guys. If his w is gone and your w is gone, and he's alone...for some men, that's a nightmare and he sounds like a very unstable man. What's your take on him? I'd trust that more than out of context emails but still, it's weird. Does your w trust her HR dept? Some places have great HR's and some don't.
Good luck and keep up the great work. J-
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
I hope down the road in the not too distant future, you two can get to Retrovaille. It's a very good thing and a surprisingly helpful experience. I cannot recommend it highly enough, and we've done other wonderful workshops in the past but they were based on a happier m at the time. Retrovaille was just what we needed. Wish we had gone earlier. But truly, better late than never.
((( j )))
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
...Robx, I cringed when I read your response to breakaway some time ago when she discussed her abusive h. You challenged her so forcefully it made me wonder if you thought she was lying or deserved it as you implied both...and without any need, in my opinion. Then when she painstakingly answered you in almost a point by point rebuttal, which basically proved your error but instead of apologizing like anyone else would have, you persisted! Tell me that's not personal...on the contrary, there is an intentionally personal angle to this that's odd, and pretty bullying of you. You have showed that to me & other women who dare to disagree with you. Then you pretend "it's all good" when a man calls you on it, but it is not. It's offensive and seems...punitive. I do hope your own sitch improves so that you will be reconciled with your w, but in the meantime I sense a tremendous amount of projection going on here. I know this will trigger a nasty personal attack but someone has to stand up to you other than breakaway and tell you to stop making this all about punishing, (especially punishing women). We are not all shrews who need discipline or idiots who need manipulation.
25 I agree with you, Tristan's thread isn't for this.
As for breakaway, if her husband was truly abusive, her answer should be clear as to what she should do, she should leave him. There is no personal attack on her or you, I think you both are "projecting". If having an opinion is considered a personal attack well I'm sorry if I don't agree with that. I have re-read those original posts and maybe I'm just not seeing the fuss you're making, point it out to me if you have to, I'm not a mind reader, never will be. Apologizing for something that I don't think I did wrong just for the sake of apologizing just isn't right. Breakaway doesn't have to explain herself to me, and I don't have to explain to her, I don't know why you continue to bring this up 25yearsmlc. I would rather be honest than tell a lie and be deceitful. We also know that on this site, alot of WAS's rewrite history and I've even read posts by breakaway herself where she says her husband thinks she is crazy and blowing things out of proportion. 25 you are over generalizing, quote me on something that I said in regards to something breakaway said and call me on my hurtful words, explain to me what I've said wrong, I don't see it and if you can show it to me and explain it to me so that I can see my errors, I'll gladly apologize if I've truly been wrong about what I said.
As for what I said to breakaway about the legal issue, she said and I'll quote that "no matter what she did", you can't make a blanket statement and say that a person will get off without any issues no matter what she did? It's not true. To further complicate things, say they go to court, what if the OM knows about her mental issues and brings that up, wouldn't it be possible for him to turn this around and on top of that seek punitive damages from her - see the word I used "possible". We don't live in a perfect world, if we did, we wouldn't need sites like divorcebusting.com among others, there would no affairs, marriages would be perfect, everyone would be honest, loving & caring but we all know that this isn't how things play out in the real world - I could tell you I'm a lawyer (I'm not) but how could you verify that, how can I verify what you know? I can't either, making grandiose statements about what would happen in a court of law is really just text on a website page.
Let's allow this thread to focus on tristan and his issues, stop making this about me, it's not necessary. Please & thank you.
Tristan, I am sorry to hijack, but am in desperate need of help and would like Robx to take a look at my thread. After 4 months I am now 100% sure that my wife is ahving an EA and possbily a PA. I have left a thread outlining what happened today and ROBX, I need some of your great advice on what to do. Anyone else who woud like to chime in please do. after confronting, she said she had the divorce papers ready to be signed. Of course i am hear because I dont want a divorce. Please, take a look and let me know what you think
Tristan, sorry again, but i know you understand the need for help.
Everything breakaway said is true from a legal standpoint
you really think so?
as a lawyer, i would think the first thing you would have asked is what is the company's sexual harrassment policy, and how did they fail to act on that in an immediate and protective way?
so we have some girl, she like to dress in mini skirts without panties and talk in the cafeteria about her sexual escapades and oral fixations. she has been known to date men within the company, at least one of those ended in a not so pleasant breakup, and there are witnesses that she took part in a gangbang at a bachelor party. now she dates her boss. goes out on more than one date. initiates consensual sexual relations. oh yeah, dont forget about the company car and nice office space that she did not decline during this affair. then she goes stating she was sexually harrassed in the workplace.
good luck finding a jury that would hold that company liable for that supervisor's actions in that scenerio. good luck finding a qualified labor law attorney willing to take that case scenerio on on a contingency fee basis.
and whats with the she "walked off with 50 grand?" I have never seen a settlement for a situation like this that did not have a very well defined confidentiality agreement, and here we have some woman blabbing about it on the Internet. In fact, I dont believe I have ever saw one that did not have a clause that if the confidentially agreement is broken the contract is null except for the clause that it is agreed upon that no sexual harrassment has taken place. hmmmmm... arbitration over this broken contract?
and 50 grand? that severance package is not even a years salary with continued benefits for a very low paying position. somebody really didnt have a case here and took whatever they could get.
To say, Sexual harassment is unwelcomed, inappropriate and continued is wrong IS WRONG. Breakaway might want to check with her Human Resource dept. for her company's Sexual Harrassment Policy; if anything it is interesting to find out how well defined these laws are to protect the company above the individual in these situations.
I hope down the road in the not too distant future, you two can get to Retrovaille. It's a very good thing and a surprisingly helpful experience. I cannot recommend it highly enough, and we've done other wonderful workshops in the past but they were based on a happier m at the time. Retrovaille was just what we needed. Wish we had gone earlier. But truly, better late than never.
((( j )))
J,
Thank you for your posts, I very much appreciate them. I did look into Retrovaille, the next one that would be available to us is in January. A little wrinkle in going to Retrovaille is that my W grew up in a Seventh Day Adventist church that didn't speak highly of the Catholic Church (you can Google it if you need to know more). I don't know how much it would bother her now, but it is in the back of my mind. So given that the next opportunity isn't until January anyway, I figured I can wait a little on this.
As for OM, I talked to his W a couple of months ago. She said that he was not abusive (physically or mentally). My W did not say that she was afraid for her safety at all; she mentioned it as more of an annoyance than anything. But given all of your concerns, I will bring it up again with her tonight to see if it is still a problem.
I don't know if HR can do much. They are in 2 different agencies now. She moved to another agency about a year ago. They still had contact though because these to Social Service agencies work closely together (he is COO of one, she is a Director at the other). As I stated before, she has already handed over all of the projects that would have contact with OM to one of her staff. So their should be no need for my W to communicate with OM now.
Journaling: Tuesday Morning: More good news! W called landlord yesterday to find out how she could get out of the lease on the apartment. The "For Rent" sign goes up today.
Journaling: Tuesday Morning: More good news! W called landlord yesterday to find out how she could get out of the lease on the apartment. The "For Rent" sign goes up today.
Steve...I get it. The cases of which I do have knowledge, and the other two were more serious..were all brought into being when the relationship was over and the man resisted her ending it. The one I was supposed to be deposed over, you're exactly right, she was trying to see what she could get. It was extortion all around in a company run by narcissistic psychopaths who finally got bitten by one of their own kind. Of course she signed a confidentiality agreement. Of course she talked about it anyway. She took her newfound money and bought herself new boobs. She was real proud of those boobs. I've long since lost contact with any of these people. That company's long since been bought out. So yeah, I'm "blabbing about it on the internet" anonymously years later.
I know companies have those policies to protect themselves, but you and I both know there are situations where settlements ARE MADE to avoid trial and exposure of this kind of stuff. And whatever the HR policy is, some companies (and government agencies) still operate like glorified frat houses, and they still have to cover up for their "bad boys" sometimes.
The worst thing of all is, the people whose careers are actually HARMED are the normal people who don't participate in this crap when it's going on. I was the one who didn't go on certain trips to see important clients because it would get in the way of certain trysts. I was the one slandered and sabotaged because I "knew too much." I sure as hell didn't get a company car. It was all good though, because it gave me a reason to leave and get a better job I liked more somewhere else, with normal people.
Anyway, it's all a side conversation at this point.
Journaling: Tuesday Morning: More good news! W called landlord yesterday to find out how she could get out of the lease on the apartment. The "For Rent" sign goes up today.
You really turned it around Tristan, seems like the finish line is up ahead, all I can offer at this point is not to get lazy and return to old ways when you start feeling comfortable again - this isn't a one time process, this is a continuous process on both of your parts but the rewards are worth the effort.
