For a while there, when H was trying to put every wall up and fight me about everything to make me a monster and justify his crap, his wanting to ride off into the sunset, I would take it.
Eventually one day when I was being yelled at about something completely stupid, I yelled at the very top of my lungs STOP!
I took a deep breath and calmly explained, "You will treat me the way I say you will. You will NOT treat me like this. I have a college degree, I'm a mother and a well respected woman in this community. You go do what you have to do. But I will not be the punching bag or the effing fall guy here." I walked away. The next time I saw H, later that day, it was all peaches and cream.
And the blaming me for everything ended. Put your foot down Sweet Pea.
GIMA, these are great questions. Nope, h has not asked to go along. Of course he could join me and I've sometimes told him so - like to some parties, etc. The answer has been no lately.
I really needed to hear that the issue isn't me. Thank you. i'm starting to convince myself of that as I read more about ragaholics (yes, there is such a thing) and verbal abuse.
Once precious night over the summer he responded to a book I gave him and talked about how he has issues with power - H was teased a lot as a kid (nerd), and then he felt his mother somehow was unsympathetic. I can see how he's trying to have power over me with his anger.
I think his self esteem isn't the greatest. He has quite a superior attitude, and one of perfectionism, but I think that stems from his low self esteem. Who knows. I hope if we ever get to MC (the wonderful land of OZ) I hope hope hope we can delve into this stuff. H doesn't go there much, certainly not recently.
Well on top of receiving my sep papers soon, H getting a bigger apt., we just learned we were turned down for our house insurance. We are going in the hole fast financially.
OK. I understand a little better, I hope, Hope.
The anger and control issues could definitely be products of his low self esteem. He does not sound like he likes himself very much and probably perceives (real or not, his perception is all that's important for the moment) that he did not receive the love/support from his mother/father as a child. These are BIG deals.
What can you do to help pump up/massage his ego. Given where you are, I would start out real small. Compliments go a long way. Remember, we males are really just little boys in a man's body. There is a certain aspect of us that still craves approval, especially from female figures. And, I think you can do this in a way that is not desperate, insincere or comes across as you seeking something for yourself by complimenting him.
If his self esteem is in the crapper, then depression, in some amount/severity is also at work. Coach recommended a great book to me that helped me turn from a pessimist into an optimist - "Learned Optimism" by Martin Seligman. It might help you understand your H's thought process better and why he may be a pessimist.
Now, complimenting him does NOT include being a doormat. When he raises his voice with you or gets on a personal attack, call him on it. Do it calmly, but set that boundary. If he won't have a civil discussion like a grown up, then tell him conversation's over until we can have a civil discussion like adults.
As for his blaming you for everything, I suspect he's doing that, at least in part, to get you engaged in an argument. Let it roll off. A few times of that, and will probably stop doing it b/c it's not getting the result he was hoping for.
Obviously, C would help him a great deal, assuming he had the right C. But, he's a big boy, and you cannot make him go.
I took a deep breath and calmly explained, "You will treat me the way I say you will. You will NOT treat me like this. I have a college degree, I'm a mother and a well respected woman in this community. You go do what you have to do. But I will not be the punching bag or the effing fall guy here." I walked away.
I'm memorizing this. This is good. It's true I make mistakes and those mistakes infuriate my H. But so does he. I'm working on my mindset that I'm not to blame for everything.
The anger and control issues could definitely be products of his low self esteem. He does not sound like he likes himself very much and probably perceives (real or not, his perception is all that's important for the moment) that he did not receive the love/support from his mother/father as a child. These are BIG deals.
What can you do to help pump up/massage his ego. Given where you are, I would start out real small. Compliments go a long way. Remember, we males are really just little boys in a man's body. There is a certain aspect of us that still craves approval, especially from female figures. And, I think you can do this in a way that is not desperate, insincere or comes across as you seeking something for yourself by complimenting him.
If his self esteem is in the crapper, then depression, in some amount/severity is also at work. Coach recommended a great book to me that helped me turn from a pessimist into an optimist - "Learned Optimism" by Martin Seligman. It might help you understand your H's thought process better and why he may be a pessimist.
Now, complimenting him does NOT include being a doormat. When he raises his voice with you or gets on a personal attack, call him on it. Do it calmly, but set that boundary. If he won't have a civil discussion like a grown up, then tell him conversation's over until we can have a civil discussion like adults.
As for his blaming you for everything, I suspect he's doing that, at least in part, to get you engaged in an argument. Let it roll off. A few times of that, and will probably stop doing it b/c it's not getting the result he was hoping for.
Obviously, C would help him a great deal, assuming he had the right C. But, he's a big boy, and you cannot make him go.
I love this. You are so right, GIMA. I think he needs to feel superior to me so that he can deny to himself what his own problems are = because in his mind, he has to be perfect or he's nothing. He projects this on me, I'm seen as the failure, he's perfect again and he can hide from his low self esteem once again. He's less interested in the arguments any more - he'd rather blast me and walk away. But he is interested in hiding his own faults.
According to his mom, his father was very hard on him growing up - telling him how hard he'd have to work or else he'll end up living in a cardboard box. Through high school he was expected to hold a job and get straight a's - which of course he did. He called him mom crying once in college because he got an A- and he thought it would end his career possibilities.
so I'm the artist, the mom. I am fluid and in the moment with my child. I sew and paint and play music and perform. I lose my phone or keys occaisionally, don't always get the library books back in time. He is precise, meets every deadline, and knows where all his stuff is at any moment. He sees it now that he is the most responsible person in our marriage. However, I see that I am the one who is responsible for taking care of the emotional world of our family - our marriage and our child. So he fails to see that we are each weak where the other is strong and that is what drew us together in the first place.
So I inconvenience him by losing things occaisionally, he inconveniences me by not having control over his emotions. Neither of us is perfect and I need to remember this because he won't.
so I'm the artist, the mom. I am fluid and in the moment with my child. I sew and paint and play music and perform. I lose my phone or keys occaisionally, don't always get the library books back in time. He is precise, meets every deadline, and knows where all his stuff is at any moment. He sees it now that he is the most responsible person in our marriage. However, I see that I am the one who is responsible for taking care of the emotional world of our family - our marriage and our child. So he fails to see that we are each weak where the other is strong and that is what drew us together in the first place.
There are your 180s. You get organised and responsible. Let him carry some of the emotional load and play a little. It's the see-saw analogy in the DB book - he can't be relaxed because he has to be responsible and on top of everything. The other dynamic this brings in is a parent child dynamic which kills romance. Be partners while keeping your identities.
M22,H45,W45 S21/18D12 Retain faith that you will prevail in the end, regardless of the difficulties and at the same time confront the most brutal facts of your current reality, whatever they might be.
H does control all the finances - says "I can't be trusted with them." So be it. Yes, I will work to be as responsible as I can with what I have - the house. The shopping. Dates and times. Etc.
A few comments on the last few posts. Coach is on to something with his comments about parent-child dynamics in your MR, definitely something you will want to explore further in MC. I can elaborate further when you get to that point.
GIMA is right about the compliments, but you need to be very understated in how you approach this with your H or he may perceive your efforts as patronizing. In essence, how you want to approach your H is by incorporating a compliment in with a concern in order to get a desired result- with a dash of humility and understanding. Make sense? Look back at my prior post in which I mentioned how your H's behaviors and attitudes were not in synch with his high standards to get an idea of what I am talking about.
I would not put too much weight on the perception that your H has low self esteem right now- this man's main issue is depression. If self-esteem was his problem in the past, he has most likely mitigated it to a large extent by being outstanding in things that are important to him. I would bet that despite being off the rails emotionally at the present, in your H's heart of hearts that would include being an outstanding H and father. BTW, are your in-laws still M? Your H very likely will be very sensitive to any shortcomings of his parents- particularly his own father- and will be loath to repeat any mistakes his father may have made either as a parent or spouse.
You really ought to consider getting your H into either MC or IC as soon as possible- I wouldn't wait another month. Your H sounds very much a results-oriented person- as am I. Use that to your advantage to get his a$$ in gear and into counseling. Tie the need for counseling in with your H getting his head clear in order to pull you guys out of this emotional/financial spiral you are in. He needs to be at the top of his game right now and he is not. Any waffling on his end, print my prior post and shove it under his nose.
Got to run. I'll check in later.
M: 41 W: 39 S: 11 S: 10 D: 4 1st contact w/OM: 1/19/09 EA began: 2/14/09 EA discovered: 3/1/09 I file for D 8/25/09 to protect myself _______________________________
BJ, great advice. I have given H numbers for therapists, and once the sep. papers are signed, we go to MC. I just can't push him now.
Trying really hard to GAL and not look desperate. H made it clear he will be busy and not around this weekend - and my gut reaction was sadness, he's pulling away, etc. But I just said, "no problem, I understand."
Going to keep going with the no calls tactic, and the making my plans without him. Doesn't seem to be having any effect, but I remember it must take two weeks or more. It stings that he has no desire to be around me at all, but I'm just going to let him have it. I need to not be sitting around waiting for him to return. Drop the rope.
My technique up to this point was to be around him a lot to show my changes - but he asked for more space so I'm giving it although I still fear this is just agreeing to D and not fighting for it.
I'm writing all this down to gather support on my new tactic of pulling way back - keep me focussed people!
