My h and the OW are in love and planning a future. How do you compete with that? Please help!
you walk away. in the other direction. actually run. and grab another person, twice as cute as them, to walk with you. you will be susprised at how fast they begin to notice when you actually give up and take it up with someone else. fear of loss? jealousy? who knows. do what works.
why would you want to wait a couple years for your husband to get sick of screwing around with some skank whore? why?
You should give us more of your situation. Many of us can relate and at least give encouragement even if ours isn't exactly the same. Often you will get advice about the things you are doing and how effective they are. Plus it helps to get stuff off your chest, to lay it out for others instead of holding it inside where it can eat away at you.
~Mark
Me: 38 W: 34 Together: 9yrs 1st M: may '03 1st D: april '08 1st bomb: june '08 remarried: oct '08 2nd bomb: aug '09 --(W asked for D one week into 3 mo. trial separation which was meant to save our M)
why would you want to wait a couple years for your husband to get sick of screwing around with some skank whore? why?
Because you value M and these things can and do get turned around with time once fantasy land ends. Haven't we all made mistakes at times? Isn't that one reason we are all here? Right now her H is making a mistake. Give it time to reconcile itself.
Plus, there are kids involved who would love for nothing more than their parents to reconcile and be a full fledged real family again.
Kevin
Me 36, W 37 M: 08/02/97 D13, D9 1st Bomb 02/08 Reconciled 04/08 2nd Bomb: 09/08 W filed for D 02/04/09 Separated 03/09 D dismissed 06/09/09 Still separated...
I didn't try to compete with OM. I had no intention of lowering myself to that. As far as I was concerned, I treated my marriage like it was already over, and started working on ME. Going to the gym, joined a softball team, going to friday happy hours with my buds that I had neglected. Reconnecting with my parents and my siblings and my God.
If you've ever followed SmileyPerson's thread, it's what he calls "acting like you're already dead," I think a reference from either Saving Private Ryan or Band of Brothers, I"m not sure which.
I had to realize (and it took a month to six weeks) that I CANNOT CONTROL MY SPOUSE. Then I also realized one day that I DIDN'T WANT TO. She is an adult, and she will do what she will do, and all I can do is establish my own boundaries, learn to enforce them, and become the best Puppy that I can be.
I also learned to -- in every situation -- STOP acting from a position of: "If I do (or say) this, how will she react? Will she be angry? How will her reaction make ME feel?" ... and instead, operate from a standpoint of "What is THE RIGHT THING TO DO in this situation? What is the thing that GOD HIMSELF would have me do, if He were standing right in front of me?"
Once I learned to do that, and learned to withstand my wife's blowback and anger ... and still stand ... it was very, VERY liberating.
So what I did was work on me. I treated her civilly -- like a co-worker, or a roommate. I was considerate, and polite, and friend-LY, but I was NOT her friend, much less her BEST friend (which we had always been). I lived my life, and I let her know what I would and would not tolerate (like no texting OM in front of me or our kids, for instance). And I moved on down the path.
At first, I'd keep looking over my shoulder, to see if she was following me. But eventually, I'd only stop every mile or so to peek, and then pretty soon I was just walking alone. Still praying for her -- and US -- every day, but walking down my own path, and shining a light back toward our marriage.
I think the mistake most people make in DBing is that they tend to be either one extreme or another. Either they're scorched-earth, kick 'em-to-the-curb, treat them angrily, -- or -- they are total doormats, trying to "win them back" by rubbing their feet, and being their best friend, and supplicating.
Neither works, in my opinion.
You have to walk THE MIDDLE ROAD, of loving detachment, of strong boundaries and courteous strength and character. At first, it didn't feel natural, so it was like a character, or a "coat" that I'd put on. But eventually, it became my own skin.
Because you value M and these things can and do get turned around with time once fantasy land ends. Haven't we all made mistakes at times? Isn't that one reason we are all here? Right now her H is making a mistake. Give it time to reconcile itself.
it is not always a "fantasy land." that is a fairy tale propagated around here. people fall out of love with their spouses and all of their problems. some actually grow to hate them.
people fall in love with other people when married. it happens. alot. You dont always meet Mr. or Miss Right when you are young. Sometimes you just get married to the wrong person. Then when you are older the right person comes along. Maybe they changed. people change. then some other person more like them comes along and they connect.
Realize your husband or wife may not be in a "fog" they just moved on. If you wait for the "fog" to lift and there isnt one then you are only kidding yourself.
Because you value M and these things can and do get turned around with time once fantasy land ends. Haven't we all made mistakes at times? Isn't that one reason we are all here? Right now her H is making a mistake. Give it time to reconcile itself.
it is not always a "fantasy land." that is a fairy tale propagated around here. people fall out of love with their spouses and all of their problems. some actually grow to hate them.
people fall in love with other people when married. it happens. alot. You dont always meet Mr. or Miss Right when you are young. Sometimes you just get married to the wrong person. Then when you are older the right person comes along. Maybe they changed. people change. then some other person more like them comes along and they connect.
Realize your husband or wife may not be in a "fog" they just moved on. If you wait for the "fog" to lift and there isnt one then you are only kidding yourself.
While this is true to a degree, we often love more than the surface of a person. Love extends deeper. Especially after years together. Often what a person runs from in a marriage are patterns developed over time, which that person confuses for their spouse or the nature of the relationship.
Core love for a person remains. Deep connections remain over time. I'm not religious, so I won't use words like "soulmate," but deeper bonds are almost built into us. Marriage turns us into partners a lot of the time. the spouse who walks away usually leaves because they feel their own personality was lost in the mix. Over time they often realize that they still have the deeper connection that they thought they were leaving behind and that it does NOT have to eclipse their own individuality.
It's a mistake imo to deny deep bonds and dismiss a person's need to find themselves outside the M as "it just isn't a right fit." My W denied her own needs and wants for the sake of pleasing me. Now she feels the need to recapture her own identity. I need to convince her that I'm no threat to her identity and believe that when she feels I am supportive and only wish to provide comfort and protection. I believe she will want a R again with me. I don't think it's mere wishful thinking, it's a bond that was grown over ten years time.
~Mark
Me: 38 W: 34 Together: 9yrs 1st M: may '03 1st D: april '08 1st bomb: june '08 remarried: oct '08 2nd bomb: aug '09 --(W asked for D one week into 3 mo. trial separation which was meant to save our M)
Hello Die I too read letters my H wrote to his ex-OW. I was destroyed inside. I felt like I died and he was the one who strangled the life out of me.
Long story short...ex-OW went and got engaged to a younger richer model and left my H high and dry. They still text every now and then which annoys me, but again, he has to let that run the course and she now lives in another town with her fiance hours away.
You have to let this all play out.
I agree that this is a fog. I think SMcQueen could be right, your H could be done. But here's what I've noticed here....when the MLCer or WAS acts angry when you are nice or civil to them, that's a sure sign of guilt. It took me a bit to catch onto this in my own situation. But my H wanted to fight with me. He wanted me to be the devil to justify what he was doing or wanted to do which was divorce me and ride off into the sunset with his crazy ex-OW. (Criminal record, history of messing with married men, etc.)
But there was a time when I felt EXACTLY as you do now. I thought my H was in love with another woman and she turned out to be a fraud. He's even admitted to me "I would never want to be with a person like her." He admitted and acknowledged I am a better woman than her on every scale. Now, we're "seeing what could happen". And he's admitted flat out that he's waiting to see if my changes are real. He's admitted he understands some of my "crazy" moments were caused by the immense pain I was suffering as he was carrying on with another person and he's apologized for the pain, not his actions....but that's another story I guess.
So please hang on. Work on somethings you've wanted to for you. I for example, had a nasty temper. IC has helped a lot with that. I was very argument prone....as a matter of fact, a very good friend of ours went to dinner with us a few days ago and she noticed my changes....she said "You're not as argh and anymore and don't pounce like you used to over the stupid crap no one cares about." Made me feel good someone else has noticed too. I also play lots of tennis now. Love it. I read and exercise. I do stuff with my three year old and do more with the girls with and without our kids.
At this point, things are calm and nice between H and I. Don't get me wrong. I have my moments still, but the "crazy" is a lot lower to non-existent.
I think SMcQueen could be right, your H could be done.
no. I was commenting on kevin's 'fantasyland' statement, and waiting around. I believe if your spouse is walking away and planning a future without you then by all means use the most effective tool at your disposal, copy their actions. It is working on you. And it has been shown over and over on this forum it works on other WAS. And it can be read over and over again on this forum how unhealthy it is to be waiting around till they are done with their affairs. There is a chance there is always a chance, but you have to act quick. you have to act effectively.
Sure love is deep, and years and years of togetherness form a certain familiarity you can not see yourself living without. But truthfully, if you wait years for your lover to fall out of love and sex with someone else are you still in love with that same person; that person is now different, grown, and has an understanding of love in a way you yourself have not been to experience. or are you in love with a memory?
I believe the "fog" statement to be a bunch of baloney. They know full well what they are doing and feeling. They are just not doing and feeling it with you. wating out the fog, fantasyland, and aliens. Seems to me to only serve to enable self pity.
I've been in that "fog." I was an idiot. And it's easy to believe your spouse isn't important to you when they're right there, feeding your ego and begging you to stay.
That's why you stop begging and disengage. It straightened me out right away. Unfortunately, my W is now in her own "fog." They know what they're doing, sure. But they're also suppressing their love and the deep meaning of their M because it's too hard or painful. Life w/out the spouse equals freedom and often fun. I helped create the pain in my R. I see it in my W and I see the conflict between love and D when I look at her.
I don't know if it's always a "fog." I really don't. But I do recognize it in my own W because I've felt it and I caused it.
Last edited by M A Holm; 10/09/0904:13 AM.
~Mark
Me: 38 W: 34 Together: 9yrs 1st M: may '03 1st D: april '08 1st bomb: june '08 remarried: oct '08 2nd bomb: aug '09 --(W asked for D one week into 3 mo. trial separation which was meant to save our M)
My H's "fog" was that he refused to even acknowledge what a fool he could end up looking like if he proceeded to chase a young co-worker. In the end, that's EXACTLY what happened. And man, did ex-OW slam his stupid butt. Not only did it not just fizzle out, she went and got engaged to another man.
Another part of my H's "fog"....he didn't really seem to comprehend the ramifications of divorce for us financially. He wouldn't acknowledge that our 3 year old would understand and be sad if we divorced. He gets all of that now, esp. now that S will say "Are you staying with us tonight? Say YES! Say YES!" And I have not done anything to put S up to asking such things. He's figured it out on his own that Daddy's not here every night and he likes it when Daddy is.
