S4H, My wife is 41. I think you have really gotten to the heart of why separation is inevitable for us. I feel (though it has taken a lot of objective looking and time) that she is in MLC that was compounded by the relationship with the OW. As I stated above, the OW was experienced with drawing unhappy spouses out of their vows. So you put a woman going into an MLC and somebody with less than usual morals...viola. I really believe at this point, if it hadn't been for the hicky...I never would have found out. From the time I knew, I did the usual early DB no-no's and drove a stake farther into her...and now she is filled with guilt. How can you love some one if you don't love yourself? How can you be a loving mother, if you don't love yourself? And in everything you do with your family, children, or husband you see what you have destroyed!
As far as the attention goes...she doesn't want it from me because of guilt and feeling unworthy. She has stated many times how she doesn't deserve me and I deserve so much more (see...we are getting off the usual DB situation). So she goes to find it elsewhere. Our therapist always mentioned that my wife may suffer from some form of narcissism that evolved in her early childhood. She didn't get the attention a solid family foundation should have created and instead tries to fill that need now in her adulthood. More than one friend and multiple family members (both sides) has mentioned that she always needs to be the center of attention. I was always overbearing with attention which is why we probably lasted as long as we have, but that attention became painful to her because of the guilt.
So yes...I do know what this is all about. It is about a broken marriage centered around what is now a broken woman. Sadly (according to what I have researched)until her demons are exercised, she will continue to fluctuate in the wind. I really think that is the curse of MLC....there is nothing an LBS can do to change what is happening. The WAS has to be the one to deal with the issues. On another board I saw mention that close to 80% of MLC WAWS regret what they did and want to return to the marriage.....but what it ends up taking is hitting the bottom of the barrel in divorce to act as a catalyst to make the necessary changes. So by the time the MLC'er is ready, the LBS is gone.
When will I hit my "enough" point...I don't know. I have thought that I hit it so many times, but haven't. So I work on detaching as gracefully as possible. I had this thought at the fair as i walked around observing all these couples holding hands and such. I started feeling down and depressed and then a pair of hands squeezed mine. In each of my hands were my childrens hands attached to heads filled with big smiles....is a little pain worth it? Would you leave a spouse because they were disfigured? If I do find that point, I am sure my reaction will be quick. What may do it...who knows? Right now I need to focus on what I do know...the welfare of my children, my business, and my self.
A few weeks ago I went to a local bar to catch a preseason football game. So as I drank my beers and joked with the bartender, I observed the people around me (old habit of mine). In the middle of the place there sat two woman. Throughout the evening I watched as man after man tried to pick up these ladies. Many of the attempts were very lame and the worst being a guy who bought them shots, delivered them, and walked away without saying a word (I was there long enough to know they didn't come or go together). The part that really did bother me though was a table of three gentlemen who finally did engage these women. I watched these men checking out the ladies and of course noticed they all had wedding bands on. Once the ladies joined them at their table...all three wedding bands were gone. During the current problem times with my wife, she has noted how many times people (both sexes) have hit on her even though they know she is married....and we are talking a lot.
What has happened to society in general? I know this isn't directly a DB'ing thing, but were have decent morals gone? In my single days there is no way I would have knowingly hit on a married woman. The same being said for getting hit on by woman, I would always be very forthright and mention that I was married. Yet these characteristics seem to be disappearing in society. Have we become just a very spoiled "me" society? It is just sad for me to see how low commitment and loyalty have fallen in what is important to society! I know people make mistakes, but there is a difference between a mistake and wanton disregard for others.
So I can continue to walk towards the end. I have to do a much better job at detaching, because the BS is going to kill me. Actually I am starting to despise my wife quite a bit and really getting sick of it all. One of the things I have a problem with are the social online networks. I am friends with my wife on two of them. The problem I have is reading her post about how horrible things are for her! I try to mentally block them out, but seeing it 3-4 times a day....just bothers me. I know I should just block her or delete her from my pages, but some of me doesn't want to! It is like I will lose that little window into her life....I have to do better detaching.
On the wife front (pre-note-All people know she is married)-Guy friend is either very depressed or feeling guilty. Either way he has started to push her away and she hasn't been happy about that. Co-worker guy is texting her all the time now....She appears annoyed by it, but he may end up being a guy she uses for beer and motorcycle rides...who knows? A female friend of another co-worker (50 year old single woman living and partying with a group of 22 year olds) hit on my wife this week telling her she was pretty and taking her cell phone number (to send her interesting messages...ahh). Then there is the kicker of it all. She found an old HS friend on the computer and they have been chatting for a year or so. This guy is a 40 year old permanent MLC type guy. To be honest, I am jealous. Never married, no kids, plenty or money, and travels all over all the time. So his latest GF (He has tons of hot GF's) broke up with him this week. So wife wants to go down and see him all of a sudden....Hmmmmm....I need to detach. She says nothing is going to happen....heard that one before.
On me: I may have to put the dream of my business on hold. Right now I just can't find work and when I do...I either get underbid or the people can't afford to have the work done. Been trying to find a job, but it seems like there are only $8.00 an hour jobs available...and that doesn't cover the bills. I sent out some more applications and inquiries, but no luck so far. The real burner about it all is....until I can start making more cash, we need her cash to pay the bills. So that delays her moving out!
And then there is the loneliness thing. It seems like there are women everywhere doing the eye and body language flirt thing. It seems like if I am at the park running, grocery shopping, or even at the park with the kids there is some woman checking me out. It is getting really hard not to walk up to one of these women and say "Hi"....really hard.
Lost. Say hi. My S says "I am going to be the hi guy today". And he says hi to everyone he sees. I tried it and it was a blast. I felt awkward at first and then after a little while it felt great to say Hi to everyone. I was in a much better mood. I try it everyday now. It works wonders to see other people smiled because you said Hi.
You are a man of enormous Mental strength to stay calm in your sitch. Mine is pale in comparison. Hang in there.
MIB, Thanks for stopping in. I usually say hello to people like you son does and it is a bunch of fun. So I did take it a step further today and said "hi" to one of the regular smiliers when I was walking. I had my kids with me (usually I walk/run in the mornings when they are in school) and it only took a few seconds before the "Where is mommy question?" came out. Of course my son said she isn't around like usually. Talk about a funny reaction...lol.
So I have been pretty busy today. Did some cleaning around the house, the weightlifting, then off to the park with kids for a 3 mile walk. Watching football for the early afternoon and then maybe a ride this afternoon.
I will catch up with your situation later MIB...half time is over
Been pretty busy lately. Got a decent sized project, working out, cleaning, and taking care of the 1,000,000 kid things that seem to fill up my time completely. As of late, the wife and I have actually been having talks that go beyond "I am bored"....lol. The guy friend is moving away and has basically blown my wife off for the last three weeks. The funny thing overall...my wife's GF basically abuses her ending that relationship and guy friend just stops talking to her. Yet she still doesn't want to work on our relationship or do things with the kids. It is really confusing....she once said "Why is it that the people you don't care matter, and the people who do care don't matter". She is a confused messed.
The bad thought on my part, is I hope that she is learning from all the marriages that seem to be falling apart around us. She has been posting on Facebook how horrible it is for her and old friends have been responding with "What is wrong?". Of course from there, she talks with other wives complaining about their husbands. Just today while she was having a conversation with a friend, she went through the list of all the things the husband is doing wrong...and then ends "You were never that bad"...LOL....duh. I brought up the fact that so many families are in financial distress at the moment, but she coldly reminded me that our problems are more than just financial...I wonder if she realizes a lot of our problems result from her spending time with everybody else she meets other than the kids and i....probably not. So today she is out bike riding with the co-worker friend. Supposedly it is just fun...but we will see. At this point I really trust nobody anymore. I am just seeing so much irresponsible behavior all around me.
Well time to make the bed and finish my beef stew.
Scene-This Morning. The wife transferring money from HER account to family account to cover mortgage. Yes, I did not cover half the bills this month or the month before (bad months for the business).
As she walks out the door "Have you heard about the two jobs you applied for? Me; "no word on one and the other one I got turned down for (told her early this week, but whatever)"...well follow up on the second and YOU HAD BETTER KEEP LOOKING!" with a grimace and stomping out the door.
Now to clarify the situation-I am starting a new business and there isn't a ton of money coming in (works out to pay in the $12-14 an hour range)...but there is some. I also have a second business DJ'ing. For this business I have hooked up with another DJ to increase bookings. I also take care of the house and kids completely...she does nothing except her laundry...zero. I also have a few job applications for real good jobs (jobs that pay a living wage and not the bare minimum) since I feel it is silly to get a job for $10/hr which I am already doing.
Her situation-8 years ago left high paying job due to stress and our income was cut by 60%. WANTED TO BE A SAHM! Started two mlm businesses costing us thousands with supplies and conventions...one broke even, the second lost about $4000...but I supported her. Gave up on those and started a small web design firm...by the time she started making $300-400 a month she was starting MLC and most money went to bars, parties, and trips away for the weekend. Still I supported her web business and we didn't really need the money bad at that point. Then when I lost my job she decided she really didn't like doing web design anymore. Now she has a job and makes about $2000 a month which doesn't cover the house bills and needs whatever I can make. August and September were bad for me...no new jobs and one client building up AR by not paying his bills (he will pay...just hasn't).
But where is the flippin support from her? I supported her for so long and never told her to get a job! I work hard ever day...but being a new small business...that doesn't always mean cash coming. The truth be told...if I make it through the depression...I will be sitting pretty since my most of my competition has closed up shop or reduced staff to nothing. Where is the acknowledgment that my ADD son...who has always had problems in school, brought home a midterm report card with As and Bs and the bigger note...has not had one bad behavior note or demerit this year. I hate this crap.......and I am just venting.
Beyond pissed today...calming slowly....but still very pissed.
Last night was dance and then soccer, so I was running around all evening. KEY POINT for later...wife IM's me at 5:15 telling me she is working until 6....then she notes I am not home. Watch the time line.
So I get home shortly before 8 and the wife is on the couch. So I have to get both of the kids bathed, fed, and into bed. So I get that done...and no she didn't budge from the couch and seemed overly moody. Tells me guy friend texted her today..."bye...I am out of town" and moved. So we are watching TV and around 10 she starts getting texts...doesn't answer..just ignores them and we go to bed.
This morning I am curious who is texting my wife at 10 at night. So before I leave for work, I do some snooping and it was the co-worker texting his nightly "hi". Come to find out this guy is living with a woman, but has plenty of time to spend texting my wife and taking for a bike ride. Hmmm...but that isn't what really catches my attention...there are texts to a new number.
Conversation Wife-some forwarded message "I have the power..who is my bitch now?" Person-"I have the power...who is this?" Wife-"The cougar...followed by her number" Person-"I know a lot of cougars, but don't recognize your number"
This conversation started at 5:30....shortly after my wife realized I wasn't home...hmmmmm. There was no more messages or phone calls!
This person is a 22 year old pot smoker who works at the mall and goes to the gym. Lives with a bunch of people and party all the times (including the 50 year old co-worker friend of my wife who parties all the time). The wife has stated he is "eye candy" more than once.
So how do I kick her out? I don't want a lawyer, nor can afford one, but this has to stop. I am done!
Hey man about to wrap up a very long day here, and I do not do DBing at home. But you asked me to take a look and I will get back to you tomorrow.
My advice is geared more toward MLC, you should know that, but I am all for standing up for yourself if your spouse is taking advantage of you as well.
24 hour rule, when really pi ssed off, take 24 hours before responding.
Experience is a brutal teacher, but you learn. My God, do you learn. - C.S. Lewis
Life is usually all about how you handle Plan B. - Jack3Beans
Listen without defending; Speak without offending - FaithinAK
I know that your advice is more geared towards MLC and I should probably move over there. The reason I don't is that I have jumped around so much that I just need a home...lol. I came to the conclusion my wife was really in an MLC about a year ago...prior to that I thought she was more a WAW or orientation confused spouse. Once I started researching MLC...too many unexplainable actions started to become explainable.
The wife does fit the criteria pretty good. A traumatic childhood scarred by a divorce and an abusive relationship with a brother. The trigger of moving long distance twice in a year. A long term bad relationship with her son. It all just feel into place...even the stages of MLC matched up with our move down here and the stages she went through. I would really say my wife is in MLC from October of 2006 to today.
Right now I think she is is teetering on the withdrawal stage, but I am just worried. I have been at this awhile and the baby steps are so far and few in between. She will actually just start crying because she hates it here so much. Then I worry if she will actually be able to make it through the withdrawal stage. She has surrounded herself with so many people who seem to be stuck in MLC also. People who focus on partying and such. I know that I need to live my life, but I have reached the point that I know that I deserve more. My children deserve more and I need advice on how to set boundaries more effectively. Going dark has had minimal returns and I feel like my nose is continually rubbed into her crap...
I also now my current mood is my usual pattern. About every 4-6 weeks I get fatigued with trying to run a business, take care of house and kids, and focus on myself. Then I blow up...so this weekend my focus is to keep from blowing up and starting a relationship discussion.
