I had every "right" to seek solace in the arms of a kind and gentle woman, I didn't, I simply started establishing boundaries. Am I special? Nope. Am I perfect? Absolutely not!
However, I sleep well at night because I did the right thing.
I'm sorry you suffered from her behavior. It's a lot easier for a man to set boundaries, however. My husband is a foot taller and has a hundred pounds on me so he doesn't always care if I have any "boundaries" or not. He pretty much thought I could stick my boundaries up my ass. I can stick a sign in my yard that says Don't Walk On The Grass, but I can't physically stop someone from doing it. Again, I didn't say I had "the right" to do it. I'm saying I was emotionally desperate and someone took advantage of that. I am so sick of my words being twisted around. I'm saying that as an emotionally battered and physically intimidated wife I didn't handle my situation in an emotionally appropriate way. But I did what a lot of people have done. Which was am mistake.
The last thing I'm saying about this is that I didn't sleep well. I went through a lot of torment. I wasn't "having a blast." I have lifetime scars. It's not a big party. My word does mean something to me. I suffered from that. It was mostly painful. I considered suicide.
My H doesn't even know it happened.
Even all this talking about it the last two days has been extremely emotionally painful for me and has reopened things that I need to keep closed.
I don't have to justify myself to anybody standing on this earth. Got that?
Breakway,
I have not read your entire thread but enough of it to know that you were in a horrible place. And you are showing great faith and courage in trying to make it work. There is no judgement from me and I appreciate your insight.
I'm saying that Tristan is saying to her look I love you, I want this to work out if it can, let's talk to someone about it.
OM COULD be saying, don't listen to him, he's a jerk, he always tells you what to do, he doesn't care about you. Hmmm...but he's not acting like that. Maybe OM is wrong about Tristan. Maybe I've been wrong about Tristan. I was just SO MAD....Maybe OM just cares about himself. Maybe I'VE BEEN WRONG. OMG. And I really do love Tristan....what should I do. I'll eat chocolate ice cream and cry all night, maybe I'll know tomorrow.
My mother says to listen to Tristan. Maybe she's right too. I've screwed everything up. I don't know what to do. Maybe it's too late. Maybe not. I'm confused.
This OM thing is crazy. I'm not happy. Maybe I can let go now. Maybe it will be okay. I just want someone to love me. This is crazy.
Okay....times 500 million....and that's without even being bipolar. ;P
Thank you for sharing some insight into the confused , conflucted mind of what some of our W's are probably going through. You're right. There is a "guy mindset" to stand up and take charge. Get your balls back as you say. From what I've seen though, that only seems to chase my W further away. That's exactly what you confirmed.
Thanks for your perepective!
Me: 35 W: 31 S:9 M: 10 years Together 13 MySitch - Ups & Downs She moved out the day before Thanksgiving 2009, over 13 months post-bomb.
He's letting her think about it. He's approaching MC as her equal not her father. They may even HAVE the opportunity to broach this topic before MC starts. She already feels guilty. If OM is pressuring her, Tristan looks like a dream right now. He's being patient and giving her some room to make the right decision. Because it's the right decision.
Let me make something clear...I think Tristan has EVERY RIGHT TO and should set boundaries, and say, I can't work on this marriage if you're still involved with someone else. Then she actually gets to say what she needs from him.
Now, if she's still in lala land and reacts in such a way that she seems surprised she should have to do this, or she can't bring herself to do it or whatever, then he can calmly "walk away from the table." That's too bad, W, maybe we can talk again when you're ready. Or maybe it will be too late then.
I think the above is PERFECT. It sets the right tone, and the right BALANCE, between being her husband, and being her FATHER. You can do the latter, but you'll have more work to do on the "attraction" front afterwards, trust me.
And yeah, I've changed a little on this. From experience.
That being said, if my W agreed to MC, I would not say a word about the OM. In my opinion, if she agrees to MC, then the OM is not all that and is fading fast, otherwise, he'd be her world, and MC wouldn't be an option.
Jon,
I think you're discounting the SIGNIFICANT number of wayward spouses who use MC as a false pretense to pretend that they tried. It happens. I actually overheard my wife, during her affair, talking to her brother on the phone, saying "I'll go to the counseling, just to show Mom and Dad and the kids that I tried, but there's no way I'm getting back together with Puppy."
"...And when he's like that, I hate it, but I it makes me miss OM and crave talking to him because he was always gentle and understanding. That's because he was faking of course, but (ROB ARE YOU LISTENING) that was like a drug that was way better than "new and exciting sex" y'all are so obsessed about."
zzzzzzzzzzzzz..... hmmmm... wHAT?!
Sorry breakaway I wasn't paying attention, what were talking about?
LOL!
breakaway I don't always agree with you (actually it's very rare when it happens) but alot of what you posted is actually very valid with regards to Tristan.
But the point about you (and maybe you're referring to women in general) about easily falling for the OM who was gentle & understanding (and now you realize he was faking it the whole time to achieve his $ex goals with you) only enlightens us to the fact that we need to be on our toes 24/7 with our wives because if some sweet talking stranger plays this routine that you mentioned with our wives who we assumed would be faithful, we're in trouble.
The double standard always exists and that's the problem I'm having to wrap my head around. We take for granted the husband that works to provide for his family, pays the bills, helps out around the home, is a good parent and has an active role in our children's lives. We take it for granted because they're always there. It's like everything else in life that we have regularly, we take it for granted. We don't appreciate what we have, we only realize it's value when it's gone. Women who aren't getting this type of "gentle & understanding" attention from their husbands, maybe it's there but it's from your spouses and you expect them to give it to you so it's not as exciting as it would be if it comes from a stranger who doesn't know you or your background, it's intoxicating to receive this from a stranger who from their first appearance wouldn't seem to gain anything from providing you with this type of attention - he's a stranger and if he's giving me this type of attention, it must be real, he doesn't know me at all.
What I'm trying to say is that it's quite possible that your husband was giving you some of this attention in some form or another all along and at the same time fulfilling all of his other obligations: working his full time job, providing for his family, taking care of his kids, his home, his wife, paying the bills, doing housework, etc. etc.
Your example of the stranger is exciting but that stranger wasn't doing any of these things your husband was doing? Can we admit that much at least? Your stranger that gave you this great attention and I'll admit it, it sounds great to have your ego boosted by a stranger but let's admit it, he also wasnt at home taking care of the kids, the home, the bills and every other family responsibility & obligation was he? Nope he wasn't. Because in the blink of an eye, all those things that i just mentioned to you, you took for granted all for the simple pleasure of having your ego stroked by a stranger: someone who viewed you as something other than a spouse and a mother and an employee and someone who takes care of a home. You took all those things for granted just like we all take for granted like the beat of our hearts (without it we would be dead), food in the fridge, hot water in the shower, and a bazillion other things that are commonplace but don't get your attention because you have them and if they don't have your attention, they don't get your appreciation.
When is the last time you really said thank you (and meant it) for your heart beating, thank you for the milk & food in the fridge, for the hot water in the shower, for the car you drive, for the home you live in, for the children you may have, for the spouse you married, etc. If you had a bowl of cereal this morning and your spouse recently bought milk and brought it home, did you thank them as you filled your tummy? Not bloody likely and it's because we don't appreciate things that don't catch our attention but all of these things most people would consider essential - you would be miserable without them (imagine living in poverty in a 3rd world nation). The sad thing is that as long you have those things, you won't notice them - you would only notice those things if they were absent in your life and you needed them. If you don't notice them, they don't have your attention and they won't have your appreciation.
So while you had all these things breakaway, you didn't notice them, they didn't have your attention and they didn't have your appreciation. A stranger noticed you, provided you with some sweet talk, everything else in your life vanished temporarily into the sweet ether while you listened to the sweet dulcet tones of a stranger's voice as she showed you gentleness, understanding, appreciation, etc. all of the purpose of having his way with you. I remember you called him a predator, and you are right but you have to take responsibility for your actions: you placed yourself in that situation where you didn't appreciate anything you had in your life because you had it and it made you ripe for the picking from this stranger.
When is the last time you expressed gratitude to the spouse that you have for all the things he is responsible for in your life?
Human nature is such that the relationship between what we have and how much we appreciate it is reversed. The more you have, the less likely you are to appreciate it. It's not that you can't appreciate it, it's just that you probably won't (and it's not just you, it's pretty much everyone). Husbands & wives do more for each other than anyone else in their lives but a spouse will feel more special if they get the attention of a stranger. We're more appreciative when someone does something for us infrequently. What we have frequently & regularly become less wonderful in our eyes because we don't have to work for those things. If you didn't have these regular & frequent things in your life, you would want them more and be more proactive about what you need to do to get it.
For what it's worth, I agree with you about Tristan not treating his wife like his daughter. That is the wrong thing to do. I know I spout alot of stuff about human nature & psychology & human nature but I'll throw just a bit more out there: human nature dictates that we rebel against those that try to control us. Think about that and every situation it applies to, when you were growing up, you rebelled against your parents for telling you what to do, in your current situations, some of you will rebel against a controlling spouse who is telling you what to do and how you should feel, etc.
Tristan if you want my advice (and I'll just put it out there), don't tell her she can't see the OM before going to the MC session. During your session however, I would state that as a requirement in good faith, your wife will need to stop seeing the OM for you to continue going to marriage counselling and that she should invest in the marriage counselling, ie. pay for the sessions.
The rationale is this: she left the marriage, she chose to separate and she chose to see the OM and have a relationship with him. She made all these choices and she did it without your input and she did regardless of the consequences towards you and the family in general.
Now you have to make the choices, you have to show that the choice in all of this is yours. You love your wife but you won't be the backup option, the 2nd choice, in fact this is all your choice and you are exercising the power of that choice. She is free to continue seeing the OM and make that clear to her that this is her choice to continue doing that but the choice that is yours is that you won't waste time in marriage counselling while he still exists in a relationship with him and doing this is respectful to both of you. Also since she chose to break apart the marriage, if she is really invested in the reconciliation process she has to show it so that you both know you're not wasting time & money and to show this, you will ask her to pay for the marriage counselling, you won't share the costs because currently you don't trust her and you can make that clear to her, it's you being honest, part of rebuilding trust is doing so with consistent trustworthy actions and if she really wants to rebuild this marriage into something you both want to be part of, she will be responsible for the marriage counselling expense - I don't think it's unreasonable, it's very fair considering all that's happened thus far.
You don't have to be a prick or an a$$hole when setting boundaries, you can do it by being calm & respectful. If you have to show anger when setting boundaries it means you have to supplement your words with emotion but if you do it calmly, your body language communicates that you are strong & in control, it's a powerful way to communicate a message and I think it shows how much of a man you really are and there's nothing wrong with being a strong man, in fact, it's a very attractive quality.
And yeah, I've changed a little on this. From experience.
Who says you can't teach a old dog new tricks. Feels good getting your belly rubbed doesn't it old fella?
M22,H45,W45 S21/18D12 Retain faith that you will prevail in the end, regardless of the difficulties and at the same time confront the most brutal facts of your current reality, whatever they might be.
I think you're discounting the SIGNIFICANT number of wayward spouses who use MC as a false pretense to pretend that they tried. It happens. I actually overheard my wife, during her affair, talking to her brother on the phone, saying "I'll go to the counseling, just to show Mom and Dad and the kids that I tried, but there's no way I'm getting back together with Puppy."
Second. My W was trying the same thing. She wanted to be able to tell people she tried, but had no intention of working on it at that time. She just sat in the corner and watched the clock.
Me: 35 W: 31 S:9 M: 10 years Together 13 MySitch - Ups & Downs She moved out the day before Thanksgiving 2009, over 13 months post-bomb.
I don't have to justify myself to anybody standing on this earth. Got that?
Breakway,
I have not read your entire thread but enough of it to know that you were in a horrible place. And you are showing great faith and courage in trying to make it work. There is no judgement from me and I appreciate your insight.
