Ups and Downs

[wanttobebetter]

I feel your pain....I'm getting ready to send mine an email saying I am starting the D process as I have to stand up for myself & our kids. What is the phenonomen with these ladies???

[JayMan]

I'm not certain how I would feel about having her move out, but then come back home whenever she wanted. I think I would establish a boundary - if she moves out, she needs to find a place in her apartment to work. Let me guess - you won't be allowed a key to her apartment to just walk in whenever you want?

In my opinion, now is the perfect time for you to cut the cord. She bears this responsibility at this point. You are there for her, you have expressed your feelings but not pressured.

However, you even said that you have been a husband no one would leave RECENTLY. Maybe she's not sure if it'll stick, and you're just trying to get her to stay? You bear a huge responsibility here to your wife - that you will be this kind of husband forever.

Anyway, I would stop calling, texting, the hugging/kissing. I know it feels like the most unnatural thing in the world, and she'll probably react angrily/coldly, but the response simply is, "If you want to go or need space, I'm letting you go. If you decide you still want to be my wife, and want to be in this family, then we'll take appropriate steps at that point."

Then, go.

[tristan]

I kept busy working outside most of last night. W asked if I wanted dinner. I thanked her but passed.

AFter S went to bed, I came in and checked on her. I asked if she was OK and she looked like she was going to cry. I wrapped my arms around her and kissed, forehead, and said you just looked like you needed a hug.

She started crying and telling me that she was so sorry for all of this. I didn't respond. She held me tight and didn't let go when I did. She said she feels like such a horrible person. I didn't respond.

She let go do blow her nose, but sat behind me on "her" bed instead of coming back to my arms. I asked if she wanted me to stay with her or leave her alone. She said "whatever you want." I said "I asked that YOU want." (this has been an issue for us...she never says what SHE wants). She said she was fine either way and I calmly, almost lovingly responded "I don't really want to be where I am not actively wanted anymore. You know where I will be if you want me."

It's true. I am sick of feeling unwanted.

I didn't hear from her the rest of the night.

This morning, I left the house later than usual. She was up with S when I left. She was cordial but distant. Very little interaction.

I had a funny feeling to call her about 9:30 this morning. I never call her anymore. I called and told her that I was just checking to see that she was OK. She said this is really nerve-racking, and told me that she truly appreciated my call.

She told me that she was just leaving to go to the realtor's office.

It's so weird. I honestly feel like I have been the husband that only a fool would leave recently. Her version of the past has just painted me into something that I am not. A lot of it isn't even accurate to what I was then.

Numbness is fading. I am tired.

She has never had the fear of losing me. She almost seems to have the attitude that if someone else would make me happy than so be it. Looking back, it seems that she has been detached for quite a while. Her crying on me last night seemed not like she was happy that it was me there. I could have been anyone. Just someone to give her a hug.

Hi EB,

Your sitch is very close to mine. My W has said some of the exact same things to me as she is moving out (i.e. "I love you so much"). It is strange. I have got some good advice; most of it is just stay quiet. Don't interact unless they initiate, then keep it short. I have gotten pretty good at not initiated contact, I still have a problem keeping it short when she does come to me. It does help.

Take care.

[Energizer Bunny]

On one hand, I agree that I should set boundaries. On the other, I'm watching my W fall apart before my eyes.

She's not being an angry, hurtful person. She's telling me that she needs to experience independence. She left her parents house and moved directly in with me as a teenager.

I have set these lines int he sand before and all it did was reinforce her idea that I am a selfish person who didn't care about her needs. When I have told her that I am her friend and truly want her to be happy, it starts to bring her back around. Drawing the line ends up making a you against me situation where being her friend and supporting her kind of puts us on the same team.

She even wants me tom be involved with her new place. I don't know if I can do that, but it seems like a good thing that it's what she wants.

This whole thing is mental. She loves me, can kiss me, sleep with me, ML with me, but can't live with me or open up to me.

With that said, she still says her overall goal is to come back home in the end. (no promises though).

[Energizer Bunny]

Hi EB,

Your sitch is very close to mine. My W has said some of the exact same things to me as she is moving out (i.e. "I love you so much"). It is strange. I have got some good advice; most of it is just stay quiet. Don't interact unless they initiate, then keep it short. I have gotten pretty good at not initiated contact, I still have a problem keeping it short when she does come to me. It does help.

Take care.

Thanks for the feedback. I've checked in over at your place a couple of times. We do have a lot of similarities.

I have initiated some contact, but only a little. I have feared that if I left her completely alone with her tainted memories she would always see me as the guy that she has turned me into in her head. If I can overwrite those with a little compassion and warmth I want to.

I have gotten a LOT better at keeping it short and just staying quiet. I mean, who wouldn't want to respons when she says she's so sorry. The thoughts of, "well then don't do this" come to mind. I didn't respond though. I think she just needed a hug.

[JayMan]

"Needs to experience independence?" It takes tearing apart a family to experience independence? Why not take a week and go hiking in Europe?

So, because you establish respect for yourself and appropriate boundaries, you're a selfish person? I got the same response from my W, but when I stood by the boundaries in a firm but appropriate manner, that argument sort of whithered on the vine. There is a difference between being a jerk, and being a strong MAN. Being strong and kind doesn't mean you don't wish for her happiness.

I'm not sure you're ready to hear what I have to say, so I'll leave it alone for now, but I suggest you mark this conversation, and come back in a few months. I honestly hope I'm wrong, and you are one of the >1% where being there makes a difference. You described a woman who is shut off - she can give you her body, but not her heart/mind/soul.

Again, I still wonder how damaging your family to get independence accomplishes anything, but I'm a glass half full kind of guy, and my hope is that it opens her eyes, and you all come together in an amazing way.

I'll simply suggest that you be kind and loving, but draw a line - if you don't like the word boundary. If she moves out, no more ML, no more money beyond what is agreed on, no helping her move out, none of that. If she truly wants independence, give it to her.

You need to make your own decisions, but I've been through the same exact thing. W said she needed to move out and accomplish things on her own, "be free", gain her independence. She even dismissed our divorce, and refused to do a dissolution - saying she wanted to be friends and work on things - said I was "changed", and a wonderful dad, and so smart and capable. She started dating OM less than two months later.

I am glad to see that you have kept your responses short and sweet, and not brought up the relationship - I think you are on the right track. As long as it's her coming to you, keep being genuine, kind - desirable!

I wish you best of luck!

[tristan]

She even wants me tom be involved with her new place. I don't know if I can do that, but it seems like a good thing that it's what she wants.

I would not do this. This is the place she got to get away from you and the family. This is her place to be alone. Do not show your children that this place is acceptable by acquiescing to her desires (at least in the beginning).

Just my 2 cents.

[Coach]

She's telling me that she needs to experience independence.

Then give her that. With independence comes all the repsonsiblity.

I have set these lines int he sand before and all it did was reinforce her idea that I am a selfish person who didn't care about her needs.

So your boundaries which should be about your well-being are selfish? What are some examples of your "lines in the sand?" How did you phrase them?

When I have told her that I am her friend and truly want her to be happy,

great!

Drawing the line ends up making a you against me situation where being her friend and supporting her kind of puts us on the same team.

Boundaries are about behaviors someone does that you will not allow to happen to you.

"When you do this______________, I feel _______________. I will not allow that to happen anymore, if you continue to do it then I will _____________." It's not personal, it's not mean, it's healthy and it's productive. Think thru it.

[Energizer Bunny]

"Needs to experience independence?" It takes tearing apart a family to experience independence? Why not take a week and go hiking in Europe?

There is a difference between being a jerk, and being a strong MAN.

I agree. I'm trying to find that balance.

I'll simply suggest that you be kind and loving, but draw a line - if you don't like the word boundary. If she moves out, no more ML, no more money beyond what is agreed on, no helping her move out, none of that. If she truly wants independence, give it to her.

Everything you say makes sense. She doesn't though. She wants me to be a part of this with her. huh? what? EB is confused by this.

This is hard for me. It seems like a good opportunity to show her that I want her to be happy and her needs are important (keep in mind, she said she plans on coming home and use this place as investment property). By refusing to be a part of this with her would only separate us further. She would see it as me "teaching her a lesson."

If she asks too much of me I have no probmem saying no though. I have already said that I can accept this. I don't have to like it. And don't expect me to get excited and go pick out paint colors at Home Depot with you.

Whatever I don't do with her though, she will just have GF do with her.

Thanks for all of your feedback. I truly appreciate it.

[Energizer Bunny]

So your boundaries which should be about your well-being are selfish? What are some examples of your "lines in the sand?" How did you phrase them?

She rarely asks anything of me. She wants to do her own thing and doesn't seem to care what I do. When there was a guy posting stuff on her FB page I told her this was unacceptible and was an insult to me as I am still her husband. She threw a fit, but eventually told me she saw this was disrespectful and asked the guy to stop posting.

My boundaries have really not been about what I will and will not do, but more of what I will and will not accept. Every time she told me she was moving out I would tell her that she has not tried to fix our marriage. She told me to stop trying. I refused. I told her that I am sorry she feels this way, but she will never get validation from me that D is OK. especially without trying to fix anything.

This is what generally sent her into hysterics. I would tell her that I cannot stop her from going, but she will not get validation from me. For some reason, she really seems to need this from me.

Boundaries are about behaviors someone does that you will not allow to happen to you.

"When you do this______________, I feel _______________. I will not allow that to happen anymore, if you continue to do it then I will _____________." It's not personal, it's not mean, it's healthy and it's productive. Think thru it.

You're right. She's so damn illogical though. I have worded things very similarly in the past and her response has been a ton of anger with her yelling "this isn't all about you," or "stop trying to make this about you" and even "It doesn't matter what you want." Followed of course by her acting like all was fine the next day.

I guess I'll have to contunie to do these things even if she does fly off the handle. Just for my own self respect and sanity.