So, some more of the woman's point of view here, since Tristan is actually married to...a woman. Caution, some may view this as a stereotype, gasp!
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and how comes you didnt take the sex when she was apparently making herself available to you? that pre-connection will make for a much better marriage counselling experience for y'all.
See, that's GENERALLY a man's point of view. Sex fixes everything and makes you so connected. That's how MEN feel.
You're dealing with a very confused person. To give in to the feelings of the moment could have just left her more confused and freaked out. For all you know she could have started crying in the middle of it saying I don't know what I'm doing!!! Personally, I think it's great, she wanted it, he said not yet...he didn't satisfy it, so now he's the one she "can't have" in a manner of speaking. I thought everyone was so big on the unavailability thing.
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The other man has got to go you do realize that?
EVERYONE realizes that. This is a matter of finesse. Look that one up in the dictionary. There seems to be a strong viewpoint here of "taking charge" and being a man and blah blah blah blah. Treat "your woman" like she's your teenage daughter. All I can tell you is that wouldn't work for me. It also didn't work when I was a teenage daughter.
I guarantee you that when she first said she'd go to MC, and the next thing Tristan said was well you have to get rid of OM this minute she'd either get defensive and freak out OR cry and agree in the moment to do something she hasn't thought through or was actually prepared to do. And then swing back and forth some more.
He's letting her think about it. He's approaching MC as her equal not her father. They may even HAVE the opportunity to broach this topic before MC starts. She already feels guilty. If OM is pressuring her, Tristan looks like a dream right now. He's being patient and giving her some room to make the right decision. Because it's the right decision.
Let me make something clear...I think Tristan has EVERY RIGHT TO and should set boundaries, and say, I can't work on this marriage if you're still involved with someone else. Then she actually gets to say what she needs from him.
Now, if she's still in lala land and reacts in such a way that she seems surprised she should have to do this, or she can't bring herself to do it or whatever, then he can calmly "walk away from the table." That's too bad, W, maybe we can talk again when you're ready. Or maybe it will be too late then.
What has he wasted? A week? Two? To save a marriage years in the making?
You can think her feelings are wrong or crazy or stupid, but she still has them and you can't just order them away. Giving her this SMALL AMOUNT of time will SAVE TIME in the end. Forcing a decision a week or two too soon could lead to a bunch of bullsh!t and backsliding later that could be avoided.
All I can tell you, is that when my husband applies the Taking Charge approach or getting his nuts back or whatever the HELL you want to call it, I can't get away from him fast enough. It's repulsive. And when he's like that, I hate it, but I it makes me miss OM and crave talking to him because he was always gentle and understanding. That's because he was faking of course, but (ROB ARE YOU LISTENING) that was like a drug that was way better than "new and exciting sex" y'all are so obsessed about.
She might have made "the ultimate" mistake but he still has to treat her like an equal if he wants it to work out in the long run.
I agree with the sex part, but I disagree with the OM part.
My W made a promise to me to "forsake all others". Perhaps your word doesn't mean anything to you, but it does to me. I've heard all the excuses, but an affair is an affair no matter which way you try to justify it - even if OM was "gentle and understanding". If your husband is a butt-hole, then divorce him, but do it right.
That being said, if my W agreed to MC, I would not say a word about the OM. In my opinion, if she agrees to MC, then the OM is not all that and is fading fast, otherwise, he'd be her world, and MC wouldn't be an option. On that point, we completely agree. It would absolutely be worth getting with an objective person, and letting W spill her guts, talk about her feelings. Perception is reality, and sometimes you have to recognize that, no matter if you think W's feelings are crazy, they are WHAT SHE FEELS!
However, going forward, for the R to have any possible chance of moving toward reconciliation, even friendship, the OM would have to go. And I don't mean just go - I mean never see again, not a single text, not a single phone call, not any f2f, NOTHING.
If that's the "Taking Charge approach or getting his nuts back", then that's what it is, but it's right. If she didn't like it, she could go back to Mr. Gentle and Understanding, and see how long that lasted.
Sometimes, doing the right thing is more important than anything else. I can live with myself doing that.
I agree with the sex part, but I disagree with the OM part.
My W made a promise to me to "forsake all others". Perhaps your word doesn't mean anything to you, but it does to me. I've heard all the excuses, but an affair is an affair no matter which way you try to justify it - even if OM was "gentle and understanding". If your husband is a butt-hole, then divorce him, but do it right.
You know what, I don't like talking about the A but I do because I do it for the purpose of sharing information. Explaining. Explaining is not justifying. I did not say I did the right thing, I'm explaining how it felt.
But I will tell you this, you don't know the FIRST f**king thing about being married to an abuser. Okay, I'm sorry that after being treated like a no-good dog for 15 years that I didn't take the high road and become superhuman, Mother friggin Teresa, somehow emotionally healthy and always appropriate and "do it right." He took vows to love honor and cherish and beat me down instead. I did the WRONG THING, I SAID it was the wrong thing, but I don't have to justify myself to anybody standing on this earth. Got that?
I also don't have to expose myself in this way to try to help THE GUY get his wife back. Got that? But I do because I hope it will help someone. So save your sanctimony for someone else.
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That being said, if my W agreed to MC, I would not say a word about the OM. In my opinion, if she agrees to MC, then the OM is not all that and is fading fast, otherwise, he'd be her world, and MC wouldn't be an option. On that point, we completely agree. It would absolutely be worth getting with an objective person, and letting W spill her guts, talk about her feelings. Perception is reality, and sometimes you have to recognize that, no matter if you think W's feelings are crazy, they are WHAT SHE FEELS!
Which was my point.
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However, going forward, for the R to have any possible chance of moving toward reconciliation, even friendship, the OM would have to go. And I don't mean just go - I mean never see again, not a single text, not a single phone call, not any f2f, NOTHING.
Of course.
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If that's the "Taking Charge approach or getting his nuts back", then that's what it is, but it's right. If she didn't like it, she could go back to Mr. Gentle and Understanding, and see how long that lasted.
Sometimes, doing the right thing is more important than anything else. I can live with myself doing that.
THE POINT is that when she said she was willing to go to MC, he was gentle and understanding. He has every right to have TOUGH BOUNDARIES. HOW MANY TIMES CAN I SAY IT??? NO WONDER YOU CAN'T HEAR YOUR WIVES!!
women (feel free to stereotype, i dont care), married women, are going to be more attracted, in the long run, to a man that gives them space and time to go back and forth between 2 men. and that pressure and the unwillingness to share will/may intensify the emotional aspect of the affair, which is what women crave?
Treat "your woman" like she's your teenage daughter.
Treat her immature behavior with boundaries. She's confused because she lacks direction, focus and goals. Boundaries are in place to define a direction (behavior) that is unacceptable. Each person has define that boundary.
M22,H45,W45 S21/18D12 Retain faith that you will prevail in the end, regardless of the difficulties and at the same time confront the most brutal facts of your current reality, whatever they might be.
women (feel free to stereotype, i dont care), married women, are going to be more attracted, in the long run, to a man that gives them space and time to go back and forth between 2 men. and that pressure and the unwillingness to share will/may intensify the emotional aspect of the affair, which is what women crave?
go one, please. Steve.
I didn't say that.
I'm saying that Tristan is saying to her look I love you, I want this to work out if it can, let's talk to someone about it.
OM COULD be saying, don't listen to him, he's a jerk, he always tells you what to do, he doesn't care about you. Hmmm...but he's not acting like that. Maybe OM is wrong about Tristan. Maybe I've been wrong about Tristan. I was just SO MAD....Maybe OM just cares about himself. Maybe I'VE BEEN WRONG. OMG. And I really do love Tristan....what should I do. I'll eat chocolate ice cream and cry all night, maybe I'll know tomorrow.
My mother says to listen to Tristan. Maybe she's right too. I've screwed everything up. I don't know what to do. Maybe it's too late. Maybe not. I'm confused.
This OM thing is crazy. I'm not happy. Maybe I can let go now. Maybe it will be okay. I just want someone to love me. This is crazy.
Okay....times 500 million....and that's without even being bipolar. ;P
But I will tell you this, you don't know the FIRST f**king thing about being married to an abuser.
For your information, my wife verbally and emotionally abused me for a very very long time - if that makes me sound like a weenie, then it's probably true. I never raised my voice to her - she cussed me out. I never raised a hand to her EVER, she has punched me, thrown stuff at me, etc. I never have said a single derogatory word to her - I've received countless insults and tear downs. She had everything I could have possible given her, and it wasn't enough. I am not sanctimonious in the slightest - I also certainly was the furthest thing from a saint.
I never responded to her because I'd been raised to believe that you don't put down your wife, you don't EVER hit a woman, you stand up for your wife no matter what, etc. I didn't realize that you don't have to let your W be a jerk.
I had every "right" to seek solace in the arms of a kind and gentle woman, I didn't, I simply started establishing boundaries. Am I special? Nope. Am I perfect? Absolutely not!
However, I sleep well at night because I did the right thing.
How about that? I hope that will help someone too!
Back to the issue at hand - I always answer my W gently and kindly, even when she throws crap at me, and I don't ever suggest that anyone act otherwise. That's how human beings should operate in general. I just see so many LBS compromising and allowing things slide - both men and women. I know it full well because I did it myself... How about we agree that kind and gentle works wonders for conversations, while respect and boundaries guides living?
thats why i asked to help us understand. i will use your word finesse. there is a finesse to being a "don juan" correct.
now i or tristan can say 'bam' you screwed up it is now my way, take it or leave it. or we can say / do / realize 'she' is obviously passionate and searching for something (and maybe confused); how am i going to affect her in the most loving and heart-felt way in this complex situation. i hope i explained that question to you correctly.
