K4D Rising #4

[breakaway]

Vindicated? No. I don't need to see my daughter upset about this to feel vindicated. I already know I am right about this.

Then I guess there's not much left to say, is there?

I realize this isn't popular when you feel wronged and hurt. But it is what it is. We said I Do for life, in sickness and in health, for better or for worse til death do we part. There was nothing in the vows about until I don't like you anymore or someone better comes along.

How many of your vows have you broken, Kevin? Did you honor your wife for better or for worse, or didn't you? Did you love her like Christ loves the church? Do you even love her now? Or do you love you? As C-bart said, the prodigal example is RIDICULOUS to use for married people, but even if you wanted to, the father (NOT the husband) let his son GO.

The way of the world is not the way marriage was set up by God.

Damn straight. Most marriages have nothing in common with the way it was set up by God. Mine didn't. And if my H hadn't started making changes, I would have left with a clear conscience. You can preach on and on about your covenant, but you clearly didn't honor it when you had the chance.

You're not a stander, you're an extremist who's brainwashed yourself into believing your wife really doesn't have the choice to divorce you. You scare me.

And I see no remorse or repentance from you, just some stubborn preaching that she has no right to leave you. If you were truly repentant for your part in what went wrong you would not take this stance, as if you owned that woman.

Sorry, but I can't take listening to you use God anymore. I really hope something wakes you up soon.

[K4D]

You're not a stander, you're an extremist who's brainwashed yourself into believing your wife really doesn't have the choice to divorce you. You scare me.

And I see no remorse or repentance from you, just some stubborn preaching that she has no right to leave you. If you were truly repentant for your part in what went wrong you would not take this stance, as if you owned that woman.

Sorry, but I can't take listening to you use God anymore. I really hope something wakes you up soon.

I don't own her. I don't control her. I don't try to do either. You can say all you want that we both may have broken certain vows. What married couple hasn't at some point in their M? But it doesn't change the fact that we still have a covenant M that never goes away. She can live her life how she wants. I don't try and stop her from doing that. She can make her choices all she wants and there is nothing I can do about it and there is nothing I will try and do about it.

I am a stander and not an extremist. My W has every choice to leave or get a legal D or do whatever she chooses to do. I stand by what the bible says about marriage for myself. That doesn't mean I didn't make mistakes. I made a ton of mistakes that I continue to regret each day we are not together. You have no idea how remorseful I am about the mistakes I made. I have apologized to my W time and time again through this for everything I did wrong. I have shed tears to her asking her to please forgive me. She hasn't and that is her choice. I'm living my life as a stander because I will not enter into another cheap imitation of what God created.

If that means that I am alone. So be it. I have one covenant W for life. Thats it. If she doesn't want to be with me. Then she doesn't. How is that me owning her? I fail to see how because I am sticking with what the bible says about marriage being for life that it makes me an extremist. Am I making her come back to me? No. Have I asked her to? Yes I have. But I don't make her do anything. I love her. I love my family. I don't like to see my kids having to grow up like this.

But I don't own or control a thing with regard to my W. And I am not of the belief that I do. She is her own person. When we got married, we became one flesh. But she still makes her own decisions and I have to live with them like it or not just as I made my own decisions that brought a lot of this on. And I don't have to like this situation. But I accept that it is out of my hands.

Kevin

[C-Bart]

Ok. Got it. You believe in the covenant of M. No need to justify your position.

Only one question left to ask. What would you do to restore your family? Remember the key statement "I don't own or control..." and add "anything except for myself and my actions."

[K4D]

Only one question left to ask. What would you do to restore your family? Remember the key statement "I don't own or control..." and add "anything except for myself and my actions."

I pray for restoration. And I am trying to make changes to myself that will make me a better H and father.

Kevin

[smith18]

Is your wife devout?

If she is not, then it is probably best for you to not express openly to her your growing faith. It may feel like the right path for you, but to her, she could pervieve it as you becoming overly rightous.

[K4D]

I think this best explains what I have been trying to say. It is a long read and it is from the faithandmarriageministries website. But it is worth the read so I no longer have to answer questions about why I stand the way I do.

When Your Spouse Remarries
One of the most absurd and outrageous false teachings rampant in the Christian church today concerning marriage, divorce and remarriage is that when adulterers get married, they’re no longer committing adultery in the eyes of God! Since that is SO TOTALLY CONTRARY to what Jesus himself taught, there’s NO doubt that’s one of Satan’s MOST destructive and effective weapons against marriage, because Hebrews 13:8 says Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today And forever. And even more importantly, Jesus himself told us in Matthew 24:35, Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away. And the importance of His words can’t easily be discounted or dismiss, because the EXACT same verse is also found in Mark 13:31 and Luke 21:33, and it’s rather unusual for three of the four gospels to contain totally identical verses.

Speaking out against such a prevalent and destructive false teaching in the church today is a perfect example of what 2 Corinthians 10:5 means when it says We demolish arguments and every pretension that sets itself up against the knowledge of God, and we take captive every thought to make it obedient to Christ. So, even though this may be a very difficult teaching for many of us to understand and apply, we have to trust and rely on God’s word and promise in John 8:31-32, which says To the Jews who had believed him, Jesus said, “If you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples. Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.” So let’s take a look at what Jesus taught about marriage, divorce and remarriage that totally refutes and destroys the validity of such dangerous and antichrist teaching, meaning it opposes Christ, as this obviously does. The following verses are what Jesus himself taught us about marriage, divorce and what HE proclaimed adulterous remarriage.

Matthew 19:3-9 says:
3 Some Pharisees came to him to test him. They asked, “Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife for any and every reason?”
4 “Haven’t you read,” he replied, “that at the beginning the Creator ‘made them male and female,’
5 and said, ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh’?
6 So they are no longer two, but one. Therefore what God has joined together, let man not separate.”
7 “Why then,” they asked, “did Moses command that a man give his wife a certificate of divorce and send her away?”
8 Jesus replied, “Moses permitted you to divorce your wives because your hearts were hard. But it was not this way from the beginning.
9 I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for marital unfaithfulness, and marries another woman commits adultery.”
So, according to Jesus, who is the same yesterday, today and forever, and whose words will never pass away, if a man or woman divorces their wife or husband for ANY reason other than marital unfaithfulness and marries someone else, they are committing adultery and they are an adulterer EVEN THOUGH MARRIED BY LAW! That’s VERY clear and unambiguous, and ANY teaching OTHER than that is CONTRARY to the word of God, even the words spoken and taught by Jesus himself. And God very clearly and unmistakably warned us about the dangers of such false teachings in 2 Peter 2:1-2, which says But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them—bringing swift destruction on themselves. Many will follow their shameful ways and will bring the way of truth into disrepute.

In Matthew 5:31-32, Jesus even went so far as to say “It has been said, ‘Anyone who divorces his wife must give her a certificate of divorce.’ But I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for marital unfaithfulness, causes her to become an adulteress, and anyone who marries the divorced woman commits adultery. So Jesus CLEARLY and very unambiguously commands us NOT to live in accordance with today’s “no fault” divorce laws, which is totally destroying the fabric of society as God created it. How heart breaking it must be for the Lord that even the church, the body of His Son the living Christ, not only fails to condemn and reject practices so contrary to the teachings of Jesus himself, but they endorse, promote and participate in them by performing sacrilegious wedding ceremonies that Jesus spoke and taught against as adultery!

Then in Mark 10, what Jesus taught about marriage, divorce and remarriage is recounted WITHOUT the exception for marital unfaithfulness found in other passages and verses, as we see in the following verses:
2 Some Pharisees came and tested him by asking, “Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife?”
3 “What did Moses command you?” he replied.
4 They said, “Moses permitted a man to write a certificate of divorce and send her away.”
5 “It was because your hearts were hard that Moses wrote you this law,” Jesus replied.
6 “But at the beginning of creation God ‘made them male and female.’
7 ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife,
8 and the two will become one flesh.’ So they are no longer two, but one.
9 Therefore what God has joined together, let man not separate.”
10 When they were in the house again, the disciples asked Jesus about this.
11 He answered, “Anyone who divorces his wife and marries another woman commits adultery against her.
12 And if she divorces her husband and marries another man, she commits adultery.”
Even though this particular passage makes the circumstances for any of us dealing with a second or subsequent marriage more complicated, even when marital unfaithfulness is the cause for divorce, it still makes it very clear that Christian leaders are wrong to encourage, accept and condone adulterous remarriage.

It’s so ironic that the one chapter, 1 Corinthians 7, most often used by Christians to come up with all sorts of “loopholes” for divorce and remarriage is actually the one that MOST strongly supports Mark’s account of what Jesus taught about marriage, divorce and remarriage. Because in verses 10-11, Paul said To the married I give this command (not I, but the Lord): A wife must not separate from her husband. But if she does, she must remain unmarried or else be reconciled to her husband. And a husband must not divorce his wife. Clearly there’s NO marital unfaithfulness exception mentioned there, or anywhere else in the chapter, and the ONLY possible “presumption” of allowance for divorce and remarriage for marital unfaithfulness, or adultery, is found at the end of the chapter in verse 39, where Paul concluded by saying A woman is bound to her husband as long as he lives. But if her husband dies, she is free to marry anyone she wishes, but he must belong to the Lord. And at that time, as when Jesus taught about divorce and remarriage, anyone caught in adultery was stoned to death, which meant the other spouse was free to remarry. Paul obviously felt very strongly about that, because he also used it as an example in Romans 7:2-3, which says For example, by law a married woman is bound to her husband as long as he is alive, but if her husband dies, she is released from the law of marriage. So then, if she marries another man while her husband is still alive, she is called an adulteress. But if her husband dies, she is released from that law and is not an adulteress, even though she marries another man. So, once again, the practice of stoning an adulterous spouse at that time is the only possible presumed exception for remarriage found in these verses, which WOULD be a lot more in keeping with what the Bible teaches about God’s grace and mercy, and His strong sense of justice, as well as His promise to defend and vindicate us when we’re wronged by others, especially considering the exception Jesus made for marital unfaithfulness in other passages.

Then, as further evidence and confirmation that God does not recognize or bless ALL marriages, Mark 6:17 says For Herod himself had given orders to have John arrested, and he had him bound and put in prison. He did this because of Herodias, his brother Philip’s wife, whom he had married. And Matthew 14:3-4 says Now Herod had arrested John and bound him and put him in prison because of Herodias, his brother Philip’s wife, for John had been saying to him: “It is not lawful for you to have her.” And then, finally, Luke 3:18-20 says And with many other words John exhorted the people and preached the good news to them. But when John rebuked Herod the tetrarch because of Herodias, his brother’s wife, and all the other evil things he had done, Herod added this to them all: He locked John up in prison. In all three gospel accounts, Herodias was always referred to as Philip’s wife, even though Herod had married her, so the Bible makes it very clear that God does not recognize or acknowledge adulterous marriages, much less approve, condone or bless them! And let us not forget that John the Baptist lost his head for preaching AGAINST that particular adulterous marriage, because he refused to accept and acknowledge it as lawful!

Another very important point to make here, without going into great detail, is that even though many people believe and teach that God’s grace and forgiveness means that getting married makes it okay to continue living in adulterous relationships, or to remain in adulterous marriages, Jude 1:4 clearly warns against such teaching, because it says For certain men whose condemnation was written about long ago have secretly slipped in among you. They are godless men, who change the grace of our God into a license for immorality and deny Jesus Christ our only Sovereign and Lord. Not only that, but the same grace Christian leaders now presumed to cover and allow the continuation of adulterous relationships was already in effect at the time Paul wrote what he did about marriage, divorce and remarriage, in which he NEVER eluded to the “grace” exceptions, even though it was well after the death and resurrection of Jesus. In fact, quite to the contrary, Paul makes it VERY clear that the grace of our Lord and Savior is NOT a license to sin, as he wrote in Romans 6:15, which says, What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? By no means! And One REALLY BIG problem with this perverted concept of God’s grace and forgiveness is that it forgets and ignores the fact that without confession and repentance, there is no grace or forgiveness for our sins. And I know of no other sin Christians believe God’s grace allows us to continue in, while expecting and claiming God’s forgiveness and redemption. Proverbs 28:13 makes that point very well, because it says He who conceals his sins does not prosper, but whoever confesses and renounces them finds mercy.. And 1 John 1:9 says If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. Obviously, we can’t confess something as sin and expect to receive God’s mercy, and the grace of His forgiveness and the purification of His righteousness if we have no intention of renouncing and discontinuing the sin! That’s what makes the false teaching that marriage causes God to accept or forgive the sin of adultery so absurd and outrageous!

Kevin

[Tomato]

Yo Kevin

Go Eagles!

My Lord, I just noticed that you are on page 92 on hear. Are you the record holder or what.

I hope all is well with you.

Not sure why you continually feel the need to support/defend your position and stand for your M to anyone else. ?? Seems almost like a waste of time and energy to me. If what you are doing in your life is good enough for you and good enough for our God then it is. That is what matters.

You have my prayers. Just keep growing in the Lord. All the strength you need is found in Him.

Go Eagles.

Ted

[K4D]

Hi Tomato,

I agree. This is the last time I will explain it. If anyone questions me in the future, I will refer them to page 92 of this thread.

There is no point in continuing to explain the same thing over and over again.

I'm doing ok. I miss the W some this morning. But that is natural at times.

Thanks for the prayers and you have mine as well. And you are right... all the strength I need is found in Him.

Kevin

[sandycay]

I've never posted to you and have read parts of your story here and there. That said, in the previous post you said or the bible says "9 I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for marital unfaithfulness, and marries another woman commits adultery.”


Martil unfaithfulness isnt' just "cheating"....a person can be unfaithful to their marriage in many ways... below is a definition for unfaithful... note that it's just not about being sexually faithful.



1. not faithful; false to duty, obligation, or promises; faithless; disloyal.
2. not sexually faithful to a spouse or lover.
3. not accurate or complete; inexact: an unfaithful translation.
4. Obsolete. unbelieving; infidel.



So, with that being said what I am trying to say ... and yes I stood and am still standing......is that the way you are coming across is not helfpful.... it feels and sounds like pressure from you and has ring of zeal to it that is not attractive.

I am a believer BTW....

So if the above is true of you and your W and she or you has been unfaithful then she or you is free to leave the marraige. I don't think God wants our marraiges to fail but that's where the free will part comes in and you have no control over that.

Just food for thought for you.




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[K4D]

sandycay,

It was well known in the jewish law at that time that unfaithful meant the act of committing adultery.

I appreciate the food for thought.

I am not trying to put pressure on my W or anyone else. I am simply standing for the reasons above and explaining why I am standing. If someone feels like that is pressure being put on them, I can't help that. I'm not going to change my beliefs or what the bible says or what the catholic church says to make someone else feel less pressure.

Everyone makes their own choices for themselves. So do I. It may not be attractive to stand for the reasons above. But I stand for them none the less because it is what is right. Jesus and the apostles were not looked at as attractive either or else they would not have been crucified, etc. This isn't a popularity contest. It is a morality issue. It is a covenant issue.

Kevin