If you know ahead of time that that will be the MC's position, then I wouldn't be opposed to that. But I'd be damned sure of it going in.
What else would a pro-marriage marriage counselor say?
You'd be surprised. Many supposedly "pro-marriage" counselors do more to help the wayward spouse "self-actualize" or "find themselves" than they do to actually try to support the marriage.
2. What would you say was your prior* marital interpersonal style: accommodating/pleasing/rescuing/NiceGuy, or controlling/assertive/distant?
Currently, she has very little to complain about. She says I do everything pretty well. But she is bitter and resentful of the past. In our conversation the other night she said something to the affect "Sometimes I get so angry. But I miss you. I miss being angry at you, if that makes any sense."
In the past I was more the "controlling/assertive/distant" type.
1. What, specifically about your past role in the marriage is she resentful of?
2. Can you give us an idea of what this ("controlling/assertive/distant") looked like? Some examples of it? That REALLY surprises me, but we only have what you come across like on this board to go by, so I'll take your word for it.
Many supposedly "pro-marriage" counselors do more to help the wayward spouse "self-actualize" or "find themselves" than they do to actually try to support the marriage.
1. What, specifically about your past role in the marriage is she resentful of?
2. Can you give us an idea of what this ("controlling/assertive/distant") looked like? Some examples of it? That REALLY surprises me, but we only have what you come across like on this board to go by, so I'll take your word for it.
1. What, specifically about your past role in the marriage is she resentful of?
2. Can you give us an idea of what this ("controlling/assertive/distant") looked like? Some examples of it? That REALLY surprises me, but we only have what you come across like on this board to go by, so I'll take your word for it.
You know Puppy. This will be a good exercise for me: to list out all the ways I remember being controlling. Unfortunately, I need to work now. But I will do it tonight; it may be enlightening.
I'm thinking that what people mean is that the moment someone agrees to at least go see a MC is not the time to lay out all your boundaries. That maybe that's what the MC is for.
It would seem we all agree that she should not have a relationship with OM but I don't know why he would have to say that in that very conversation. You men always seem to want to SETTLE everything instantaneously and on your terms. I agree that those should BE Tristan's terms, but I'm not sure I understand the point of laying out requirements BEFORE going to a MC. ???
Maybe she'll suprise you and set up this appt. She has time to think about some of these things herself before the appt. Tristan has time to think as well, and decide what he wants and how he wants to say it. Because, as a woman, I'm telling you, HOW you say it means EVERYTHING. Also discussing this within MC also makes her accountable to someone besides Tristan. Sometimes it's easier to have the accountability with someone you aren't emotionally connected to.
OTOH she may balk at really following through on this, and then you have your answer anyway.
Just some thoughts...
Love it! "You MEN..."
Well at least she has identified some of us as the male species, thanks for the stereotype breakaway, we always enjoy having the finger pointed at us. You still have issues apparently of your own to deal with, I don't think you know us "MEN" well enough to say what we "ALWAYS want", sounds like mind reading to me and while you're at it can you pick some winning lottery numbers for me, if you have the time ;-) Perhaps you're dealing with a man who wants things done now instead of waiting?
Setting boundaries is a good idea regardless of marriage counselling. You may consider the marriage counselling a small victory but take into account one thing, one paper I recently read stated that women who were having affairs that agreed to marriage counselling did so only to better handle the guilt they experienced due to their actions of having an affair and breaking the marriage up, they didn't have any real intentions of reconciling, going through the motions of marriage counselling allowed them to better handle their guilt because they could at least reason with themselves on some level "... at least I tried, I can't say I didn't try".
Tristan don't get me wrong, the marriage counselling sounds like a good idea but don't expect results overnight but I don't think you're stepping on anyone's toes by saying that you won't pursue marriage counselling if she continues to see the OM. If you're going to invest time & effort & resources into marriage counselling, you should expect the same for her, if you make it to easy for her to come back, she'll know you were a pushover and she can easily repeat this behavior again in the future because there are no consequences for her behavior and their is no real required investment on her part to show she's being genuine.
Again it's up to you.
As for breakaway's original statement, if us "MEN" want to settle everything instantaneously, maybe it would be more fair to say that we're not willing to live in limbo for several months to several years while our wives figure out what they really want because maybe our time is valuable also?
Why postpone the inevitable? You want the marriage to work then be proactive and work on it, we're all adults (men & women alike), I'm assuming we can make mature responsible decisions within fairly reasonable amounts of time that don't require dragging out a process for alot longer than necessary. Maybe it's also fair to say that if you can't make a decision about wanting to settle issues and wanting your marriage, it's really just a way of saying I don't want my marriage but I feel guilty for admitting that so I would rather enlongate this process for an extraordinary amount of time and maybe time will change my mind & allow me to think something differently than what I think right now.
Time is finite, our lives are largely a linear experience: from point A to point B.... we're born, we grow up, we get old, we die. Time isn't guaranteed, no one says you have exactly 120 years so enjoy that guaranteed amount of time. No one can forecast what happens tomorrow, if someone gets hit by a bus, gets a disease. We can all go at any time so we must respect time and how we spend it, it's something we can't get back. Wasting time especially in this example by not making decisions that need to be made is being disrespectful to the time we have, to yourself, and to the people whose lives you affect.
Get busy living or get busy dying, I heard that the other day, I think it's a quote from a movie, sounds pretty appropriate with regards to settling issues and moving on with life and we should always live life largely on our own terms otherwise you'll be largely unsatisfied with your life when you look back at all the time you wasted living your life on someone else's terms. We can only live our life, no one else's.
- just my 0.02 cents.
BTW "....Because, as a woman, I'm telling you, HOW you say it means EVERYTHING." You are right, it certainly does, from our male point of view as well.
You'd be surprised. Many supposedly "pro-marriage" counselors do more to help the wayward spouse "self-actualize" or "find themselves" than they do to actually try to support the marriage.
Good ones are few and far between.
I have a particularly inside view of this, and it's not good. A small fact I've not relayed in any of my posts is that my W IS A MC! Somehow when we got M, I thought that was a good thing, but all it did was make my W chronically unsatisfied with the imperfection of our M. When we needed MC, she took the lead and set us up with one of her colleagues (big mistake). Although this MC was fairly good at having us deal with our own issues, she was not very appropriate as a MARRIAGE counselor. The room was skewed with those two MC who have a professional and personal association on one side, and me on the other.
On top of all that, while we were struggling to keep our M together, I find out that our MC has split from her husband. How did I come to know this? Because her new business cards had a new name. When I noted that to my W, she said, "Oh yeah, MC is getting divorced." I said "That's awful!" My W replied "Why? She says they're both much happier now." Clearly my W and our MC were having personal discussions outside the confines of our MC sessions. At that moment I knew I was bailing a sinking ship.
Even though my W is a MC, she still started a secret EA, and when I eventually found out about it, after it had progressed to unalterable levels, she claimed it had no bearing on why she needed to leave me. We were in MC for months while it was going on, but she made no mention of it during our MC sessions. Somehow she thought it was not relevant to our M! I have learned the brutally hard way, the WAW's brain, especially in the throws of an A, is truly capable of justifying anything, and being absolutely indifferent to how it affects their H, even if that WAW happens to be a MC.
Girls did well last night. We went for a short walk. D5 colored you a picture and put it in the mailbox. I didn’t know your address, so I took it out and have it at the house. D3 is counting everything, they must have worked on that at preschool yesterday. They both enjoyed the books you got them.
Take care, Tristan
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Thanks for the update. It was nice to see them yesterday. I miss them and can’t wait to see them again.
Thanks for the links for counseling. I will look at them.
Tristan, thanks for being you again. I don’t take you for granted. I know this is really hard on you, the girls and our family. I am asking God for guidance …I have done so much wrong and the first step is to forgive myself and heal.
W
PS
I will be training for the B_________ Ride and will need my bike. Could I stop by the house to get it tomorrow when I pick up the girls? I am not going in the house; I just need the bike from the garage… in a lighter note…I can’t wait to see my leg muscles again
