The last thing I'm going to say about this is, is that there is such a thing as winning the battle and losing the war.
So you could probably activate that fear and bring her home. So f**king what? That's all it would be.
Then it's just a matter of time until it happens again.
Nice post, breakaway. I follow tristan's thread because my wife has depression that she is taking meds for, and she also has an OM, so our situations are similar excepting that my W still lives with me and sleeps in the same bed.
I agree that anything that brings a spouse back for any reason other than they want to be with you is probably kicking the problem further down the road. I think of things all the time to tell my wife in order to "force" her back with me. Most of them I keep to myself but occasionally I slip.
My take is that I don't want my wife to stay with me for any other reason than the fact that she wants to be here. Not the kids, not the hideous logistics of divorce, not friends and family telling her she's insane. Otherwise, I will be dealing with this situation again in the future.
WAW Using God Me-43 W-40 M-14 S-11 S-9 D-7 EABomb 5/09 Separated 12/09
[quote=C-Bart] Do something that is the opposite of what you were thinking of doing.
Buying gifts > don't buy anything for them. Call them regularly > don't call them at all, in fact go silent for 3-4 weeks if possible, I mean really dark. Sit at home & wait for them > go out and date other people
I think we all agree that sitting at home and waiting for them is not what to do, but this site is filled with examples of people GAL and piquing their spouse's interest without going as far as dating other people. It's a continuum, not "either or"
People who don't advocate dating are NOT saying stay home and wait for them. People who don't advocate everything you say are not saying just give up. There seems to be a propensity in your comments to take any disagreement and extrapolate it into the most extreme opposite of what you said, when that was neither said or implied.
I'm sorry but you lost me completely.
?!
All I'm saying in the end is to do things that work and to stop doing things that don't work.
Hitting the "jealousy button" would be a winning option in your situation. Imagine this scenerio:
daughter: Mommy we got new friends. wife: oh really? daughter: yeah, Daddy's friend Jolene has 2 girls too, we go to the park, and for ice cream, they come over and watch movies and we went out to red robins for dinner friday night and we stayed up past midnight playing. wife: oh! $hit. this isnt what i planned for. it didnt take him little over a week to come up with a plan to move on with his life after I walked out on him. and this other guy his feet smell.
Which translates to me as "Guess what, Mommy, Daddy is using us as pawns to tell you about his new girlfriend and kids so you'll get jealous and come home!!! I can't wait to tell my therapist when I grow up!!!"
If we have to go back to my wacko nut burger term, I'm using that with anyone who would actually date someone else and bring them home and introduce them to their children. I'm reading your example above and i'm trying to figure out in my head why anyone would ever do anything like that.
Why does dating translate to bringing dates home and introducing them to the children? The dating would be for tristan, not his children?! Am I missing something here?
The example that's quoted above and the fairy tale dialogue shown should never happen IMHO. I can't see any logic behind this whatsoever.
breakaway I would love to hear what you think Tristan should do to get his wife back. I'm not attacking you, it's an honest question I'm asking here. You've mentioned tristan's wife's emotional state and mental health issues so we know you're a little concerned about her and that's cool, Tristan loves her and being concerned & compassionate towards her isn't a bad thing, it's definitely a good thing. My question is, what divorce busting techniques should Tristan be using right now with the goal of getting his wife back?
I think he should listen to Coach. Because he managed to apply DB principles and still maintain integrity and class, imo. And he DID get his wife back and currently has a successful marriage, and he knows how to be both humble AND self-confident.
My earlier comments at the beginning of this thread were, and remain, that whatever advice is given on this forum, tristan also needs a copious amount of professional advice in dealing with a mentally disturbed spouse.
I don't have time to follow every twist and turn or to comment, I don't even have time to comment on my own sitch.
Coach's situation is a good example but I will add that I don't think in his situation either of them had infidelity issues (physical or emotional affairs with other people).
Tristan's wife is in a relationship with another man.
You said back at the beginning that your counselor thought she had BPD tendencies, but the psych didn't. bipolar can get better with meds, borderline won't, because it's a personality disorder. So time will tell you a lot. She could be both.
The last thing I'm going to say about this is, is that there is such a thing as winning the battle and losing the war. I think it's a colossal waste of time and energy to engage in dating as a way to get your wife to come home, as a manipulative tactic. Because that's all it would be.
If she's borderline...then, yes, jealousy would probably work like a charm, because if you've been studying that, that it is a hot button for them, they can be irrationally jealous and terrified of abandonment regardless of their own abandoning types of behavior. So you could probably activate that fear and bring her home. So f**king what? That's all it would be.
Then I guess you could be like some guys and lord it over her and keep that fear going all the time that you are a great catch, she's not really worthy of, and she always stands to lose you and she'd better know her place in the relationship. You could probably even make her pay for the marriage counseling if you worked it just right. That sounds great, doesn't it?
A borderline comes home from jealousy?? That's like getting a dog to come home because it's hungry. Whoopteedoo. You've solved nothing. That's just a kneejerk reaction to her deepseated insecurity. Then it's just a matter of time until it happens again.
I believe a comment was made somewhere that this technique worked "to get my wife to do what I wanted." Well...if that's the kind of person you are.
I think Tristan has mentioned in his thread that several people all have similar and at the same time differing opinions of what his wife is dealing with in terms of these mental health issues - they haven't just dealt with one person.
It's the symptom of the society we live in, pop this pill, let me know if it works, speak to someone else, get a different pill, same advice, so on & so forth.
As for the comment about what you do when your spouse comes back home... that's when the work starts. If you just plop yourself on the couch, feet up on the ottoman and hands behind the head thinking the job is done, you are mistaken - anyone thinking this is mistaken.
Once the fear of loss is generated and this person starts to question all of their actions and possibly see the damage they've done and want to come back, you just don't let them back that easily. What would be the point of that? They will have to put the effort into resolving their part of this problem as you will. It involves counselling, personal therapy, it involves taking responsibility for your actions and how you contributed to this problem and what you are personally going to do to change things to make this the kind of relationship that is worth holding on to.
If you're not prepared to put the work into this, I would agree, making a wayward spouse jealous to come home only to do nothing after that is a waste of time & effort. Don't even bother if that's what your game plan is.
For my own situation, I realize the mistakes I made and I take responsibility for what I've done and work to improve those things and realize that my journey in life is all about pressing forward, continuing to develop, continuing to realize my untapped potential and there is alot to tap into. As for my wife, that is her journey as well and she is doing more now than I ever would have imagined she would ever put the effort into it. It requires re-establishing trust, setting boundaries, respecting yourself and each other. We have young children and during one discussion/quasi-argument I told her that I didn't want her back just so that our children would have both parents again, if it wasn't real I definitely didn't want it. I also told her that when our children get married and I used my 6 year old son as an example, I said it bluntly, "do you want <son's name> wife cheating on him and disrespecting him and treating him as poorly as you have to me? Do you want her to yell, curse and abuse him the same way? How will he feel when this happens to him? How would you want him to respond if this happens to him? Do you want him to curl up into a little ball and crouch in a corner some where and feel this type of emotional pain, are his feelings worth anything? What are you teaching him when he observes the way you act towards me? " My wife has an answer for everything, she argues better than anyone and always has a way of turning things around, I've joked with her that she could convince someone that the sky isn't blue. She had no response to any of my questions because even if at one point she couldn't care how this was affecting me, she still had that link to how her children can feel pain. She cried for the longest amount of time after this and then apologized to me, it was the first time something like this had ever happened, that was the turning point. I told her that I would teach both of our children to never allow someone to disrespect them, use & abuse them because I don't want my children to have to experience any of this and if unfortunately they ever have to go through this experience, they will have some sort of an education in this area so that they aren't totally unprepared & wiped out as so many people are during this process.
Dating isn't the end all/be all answer to this problem. It was however one of the many things I've done to turn my situation around from something ugly & hopeless to something positive. Getting respect for yourself from others only happens when you respect yourself and that means you will have to put your foot down, establish boundaries and not only tell people who don't value the relationship they have with you that you will pursue others who would value you, you have to show them. Action will always be more powerful than words. Words without action are just that, just words.
I can't only live a great life for my children, I have to live a great life for myself, my children will learn not only by what I tell them but by my actions. And they will learn to respect themselves, they will learn to let go of people that don't respect them and would hurt them and they will learn to have healthy self-esteems & self-value/self-love and they will be happy by themselves and not require others to make them happy and they will live a happy life, because that's my goal in life.
I have my kids the majority of the time, I would say 80% if not more. I live in our home, I moved my wife out of our home, I bring them to school, pick them up, manage the household: for the most part I'm Mr.Mom and Mr.Dad LOL!
Update on my situation: the other day my wife called me at work, told me she would pick up the kids from school because she was getting off work early and had the time to do it and and asked if she could join us for supper, I said that was fine and I appreciated her help. I came home and was surprised to open the door to the smell of an incredible home cooked meal and I will tell you that hasn't happened in our home for a very long time. I had the children say grace and to include "thanking mommy" for this wonderful supper. I thanked her as well for the great supper. I was especially hungry and smelling that food was incredible and she mentioned a few times she made things a special way because she knew I liked such & such, etc. We had a great evening & night together with great conversation without any relationship talk, just enjoying our time together. We went out for some icecream later and a walk, september is just beautiful, it's like a second summer, I couldn't have pictured a better day with the way it turned out.
I wish every other db'er out there, the same results. They are obtainable through hard work, determination and knowing how to set goals without focusing on the obstacles along the way.
'wacko nut burger' Actually, I like that term and if I ever massage my wife's feet after she comes home from a date, I am going to change my account name to that.
Redsoxfan is dealing with the above scenerio currently. I think his situation amounts to a bit more than a couple of "play dates" for the children. But his wife is teaching him a pretty good lesson about his Infidelity.
'wacko nut burger' Actually, I like that term and if I ever massage my wife's feet after she comes home from a date, I am going to change my account name to that.
Redsoxfan is dealing with the above scenerio currently. I think his situation amounts to a bit more than a couple of "play dates" for the children. But his wife is teaching him a pretty good lesson about his Infidelity.
Hitting the "jealousy button" would be a winning option in your situation. Imagine this scenerio:
daughter: Mommy we got new friends. wife: oh really? daughter: yeah, Daddy's friend Jolene has 2 girls too, we go to the park, and for ice cream, they come over and watch movies and we went out to red robins for dinner friday night and we stayed up past midnight playing. wife: oh! $hit. this isnt what i planned for. it didnt take him little over a week to come up with a plan to move on with his life after I walked out on him. and this other guy his feet smell.
Which translates to me as "Guess what, Mommy, Daddy is using us as pawns to tell you about his new girlfriend and kids so you'll get jealous and come home!!! I can't wait to tell my therapist when I grow up!!!"
If we have to go back to my wacko nut burger term, I'm using that with anyone who would actually date someone else and bring them home and introduce them to their children. I'm reading your example above and i'm trying to figure out in my head why anyone would ever do anything like that.
Why does dating translate to bringing dates home and introducing them to the children? The dating would be for tristan, not his children?! Am I missing something here?
The example that's quoted above and the fairy tale dialogue shown should never happen IMHO. I can't see any logic behind this whatsoever.
Yes, you're missing that the example and dialogue quoted above is quoted from Steve McQueen's post. Obviously I don't see any logic in it either.
I think Tristan has mentioned in his thread that several people all have similar and at the same time differing opinions of what his wife is dealing with in terms of these mental health issues - they haven't just dealt with one person.
It's the symptom of the society we live in, pop this pill, let me know if it works, speak to someone else, get a different pill, same advice, so on & so forth.
Its not that she has moved from one psych to another. Its that the MC thought one diagnosis and the psych concluded another. But both agree on the same treatment, so I guess its not a big deal. But I am interested in what others that have been close to these disorders believe, because neither one seem to fit her exactly. My IC (who was our MC) said that he has often seen people in her situation confused and then adds ", but she takes it to a whole new level."
She told me last night that she is reading "True Love: A Practice for Awakening the Heart" by Thich Nhat Hanh and that I should read it as well. I will probably pick up a copy when I get a chance. Has anyone read it?
So was I wrong to talk to her last night for a half hour? She was hurting in the beginning and seemed to be in a better mood by the time we finished. It was nice to connect with her. Am I handing her too much cake or just showing compassion?
My take is that I don't want my wife to stay with me for any other reason than the fact that she wants to be here. Not the kids, not the hideous logistics of divorce, not friends and family telling her she's insane. Otherwise, I will be dealing with this situation again in the future.
I totally agree with this, but sometimes it is the reality of losing someone or logistical issues that force the removal of the rose colored glasses and get the WAS to look at you again as a prospect...it is a fine line.
That sounds great, doesn't it?