Thanks Coach! I'm glad to hear a different opinion. I've always thought that dating when you were M was wrong but I think my opinion is in the minority. I think there is allot of bad that can come out of adding a third or forth dimension to an already strained R. Not arguing if it is effective in the short term as jealousy can be very powerful. What troubles me is it is very manipulative among other things.
it's also counter intuitive along with so many things that need to be done to get your spouse to rethink what they're doing. Buying them gifts won't get them to change their mind, being nice to them won't do it either. What's the message you communicate to the WAS when they're having an affair with another person and while they're doing this, you're super nice to them. Personally I think it communicates "Hi I'm a pea brain, I'll be nice to you even though you walk all over me like a door mat and are actively cheating on me and not even hiding it anymore"
Counter intuitive.
Do something that is the opposite of what you were thinking of doing.
Buying gifts > don't buy anything for them. Call them regularly > don't call them at all, in fact go silent for 3-4 weeks if possible, I mean really dark. Sit at home & wait for them > go out and date other people
The list goes on & on.
Counter intuitive - do the opposite. They expect you to try & win them back by using wimpy, wussy behavior and supplicating them/enabling them and their crap behaviors - that isn't attractive and it certainly doesn't command respect.
How are you? Hope you are ok. Just wanted to remind you of PTA today at 6:30.
Could you please tell me how are the girls??
I will pick them up today and go straight to PTA. Hope to see you there.
W
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Sorry, I was getting to that. The girls were good. D5 drew an amazing self-portrait in art class. She says it is “perfect” and the best one in class. I put it up on the refrigerator. We called grandma last night to say happy birthday. D3 ended up in my bed again last night, I didn’t realize she was there until this morning. I was hoping to take them tonight to make up for Friday. But if you want to take them, it is your night. I am planning on going to the PTA meeting. Thank you for the reminder and switching nights with me, I appreciate it.
Tristan
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I had already told D5 I was going to pick her up today and want to be consistent… I am glad to hear you guys had a nice evening.
PS Could you please bring me my beads and stuff??
Thanks, W
-------------------------------------------------------- I still have the carseat in the Jeep. I will be back around 6. Will that work for you? -------------------------------------------------------- Ok. I will be at daycare. --------------------------------------------------------
I arrive at daycare to greet girls. W is there and we say hi, not much more. She has straightened her hair; it looks good; but I don't say anything. Daycare provider talks to us about what she will be doing with D3 this year (orchestra, dance & playhouse); it's a lot of culture for a 3 yr old.
W: "Would you like to walk to the PTA meeting?" M: "Sure."
We walk somewhat together, but not normally next to each other and neither of us says much. We talked a little about how quickly the summer went after D3 starts picking up leaves that have already started to change color.
Once at the school, I take the girls to the room with the kids while W goes straight to the meeting. D3 doesn't want me to go immediately so I stay with her for approximately 5 minutes before heading back to the meeting. W has saved me a seat next to her. Towards the end of the meeting they have us go around the table and introduce ourselves. Most were saying their names and where they live; which I do. W instead says that she is my wife and leaves out the fact that she lives in a different house.
As we are walking back, W mentions she would like to see D5's self portrait. We get back to her car, she unlocks it and starts opening the door. M: "You're welcome to come in and look at the picture if you like. W: "Really." M: "Yes." W: "OK."
It is the first time W has been in house since she left a week ago. She sits down on the couch and D5 runs to get the picture. W is amazed by the picture as well. She looks at me with this very proud look and congratulates D5. She hangs around a little longer. I walk them out to the car.
D5: "Daddy, I wish we all lived together again." M: "Mmmm" D5: "I wish mommy moved back here." <silence> We start strapping the girls in the car. D3: "Mommy, why are you crying. Are you sad?" W: "Just a little bit." M: "OK girls. Buenes noches. Te amo." D3: "Daddy you sit here." - pointing to the passenger seat D5: "Are you coming daddy?" M: "No, I'm sorry girls." As I start walking away M: "Have a good night." W: "Can we talk?" M: "Hmmm" W: "Can we talk tonight?" M: "You can call. You can always call." W: "OK"
After they left I went for a quick (or not so quick anymore) 4 mile run.
W called later. M: "Hello" W: "Hi" <silence> M: "Sooo how are you?" W: "I'm having a hard time." <silence> M: "I'm sorry." <silence> W: "So how are you doing?" M: "It's hard to say."
From there I don't remember much, but we talked for over a half hour. Below are the snippets I remember.
W: "I have been meditating a lot. I have been praying a lot. And I just felt the need to talk to you." M: "Well I can listen. I can always listen. I'm not sure I can be much of a conversationalist tonight." ...
<silence> - there were many moments of silence in the call M: "So did you learn anything new today." <silence> W: "It hit me like a ton of bricks that I really miss my family. You know D5 is a very smart girl." M: "Yes she is." W: "Tonight she told me she was missing you. I told her that I could get you on the phone. She said that won't help, that she wanted you here. Then she told me that it was the worst day ever. D3 fell down and she was crying for daddy." ... W: "I am a piece of sh__, everything I touch gets ruined." M: "You need to take care of yourself." W: "I am. Are you saying that because you want to get off the phone?" M: "No. I'm listening." W: "Thank you for listening. You were always a good listener."
We talked about other lighter things as well. How her job was going. Whether my brother is gay. etc. It was nice to talk to her. We both said we missed that.
It is getting late. I need to sleep on all of this.
wow. your wife sounds like she might come around. and you're doing a great job playing it cool. expect a backlash; she's likely to step away from the way she was tonight.
let it all be on her.
i love your journaling, by the way. you have a great ear for dialogue. good narrative structure too. are you a writer or have you considered writing anything?
me 30 WAW 30 M 8 yrs T 9.5 yrs
3 cats 9,6,6
W left 5/31/09 W stopped most contact 06/26/09 W filed 7/22/09 (haven't been served)
I dont remember suggesting you get romantically involved with someone and introduce her to your kids as their new step-mother. And I fail to see how one or a few social interactions means "it" inevitably has to work out. "It" usually doesn't. I didn't think that was the goal here. Rather your wife needs a wake up call.
Hey Steve, I hope you didn't think I was calling you a wacko nutburger LOL! I'm in total agreement with your posts and dating other women to create fear of loss with his wife.
My post was aimed at anyone thinking that dating would mean bring a woman home and introducing them to the kids, I would never do that personally and I don't think anyone should bring their dates home to meet the kids - I don't see any purpose in it.
Well this is what he SAID.
Hitting the "jealousy button" would be a winning option in your situation. Imagine this scenerio:
daughter: Mommy we got new friends. wife: oh really? daughter: yeah, Daddy's friend Jolene has 2 girls too, we go to the park, and for ice cream, they come over and watch movies and we went out to red robins for dinner friday night and we stayed up past midnight playing. wife: oh! $hit. this isnt what i planned for. it didnt take him little over a week to come up with a plan to move on with his life after I walked out on him. and this other guy his feet smell.
Which translates to me as "Guess what, Mommy, Daddy is using us as pawns to tell you about his new girlfriend and kids so you'll get jealous and come home!!! I can't wait to tell my therapist when I grow up!!!"
breakaway I would love to hear what you think Tristan should do to get his wife back. I'm not attacking you, it's an honest question I'm asking here. You've mentioned tristan's wife's emotional state and mental health issues so we know you're a little concerned about her and that's cool, Tristan loves her and being concerned & compassionate towards her isn't a bad thing, it's definitely a good thing. My question is, what divorce busting techniques should Tristan be using right now with the goal of getting his wife back?
I think he should listen to Coach. Because he managed to apply DB principles and still maintain integrity and class, imo. And he DID get his wife back and currently has a successful marriage, and he knows how to be both humble AND self-confident.
My earlier comments at the beginning of this thread were, and remain, that whatever advice is given on this forum, tristan also needs a copious amount of professional advice in dealing with a mentally disturbed spouse.
I don't have time to follow every twist and turn or to comment, I don't even have time to comment on my own sitch.
[quote=C-Bart] Do something that is the opposite of what you were thinking of doing.
Buying gifts > don't buy anything for them. Call them regularly > don't call them at all, in fact go silent for 3-4 weeks if possible, I mean really dark. Sit at home & wait for them > go out and date other people
I think we all agree that sitting at home and waiting for them is not what to do, but this site is filled with examples of people GAL and piquing their spouse's interest without going as far as dating other people. It's a continuum, not "either or"
People who don't advocate dating are NOT saying stay home and wait for them. People who don't advocate everything you say are not saying just give up. There seems to be a propensity in your comments to take any disagreement and extrapolate it into the most extreme opposite of what you said, when that was neither said or implied.
Actually robx (I like robx), I read your entire thread and I don't think I ever saw that you did date anyone else. I know you contemplated it. Did you date others? When? What happened?
I haven't updated that thing forever, after a while I just got so invested in monitoring all the other threads that I rarely had time to update my own.
Thank you Rob. I was thinking about all this last night. And we may be talking about semantics now, but I think I can make W see that I am willing to move on with my life without dating. I have always shyed away from women (especially attractive ones) since I have been with her. I've done it mainly because I wanted to show her that she filled my needs. Since we have been seperated, I have loosened the reigns on those boundaries. Last night at the PTA meeting, I made it a point to talk more people and I think she noticed.
I am an engineer, so I work with almost all men. Except for the secretary, my office is all men (not being sexist, its the truth). My hobbies were running (alone) and playing soccer (all men). She has had absolutely nothing to worry about with me.
So I don't have to go all the way to dating to make some pretty big changes in my life. I think she will notice my GAL'ing. And I think it can have a similiar effect on her as dating would. Plus, I can do it without feeling guilty.
I appreciate your responses and take them to heart. It was a great post.
Look at why you were attracted to someone like your wife in the first place. Not just everyone is attracted to borderline type women.
Hi breakaway.
Is there a reason you used borderline here instead of bipolar? Have you been following this thread?
Just wondering - T
You said back at the beginning that your counselor thought she had BPD tendencies, but the psych didn't. bipolar can get better with meds, borderline won't, because it's a personality disorder. So time will tell you a lot. She could be both.
The last thing I'm going to say about this is, is that there is such a thing as winning the battle and losing the war. I think it's a colossal waste of time and energy to engage in dating as a way to get your wife to come home, as a manipulative tactic. Because that's all it would be.
If she's borderline...then, yes, jealousy would probably work like a charm, because if you've been studying that, that it is a hot button for them, they can be irrationally jealous and terrified of abandonment regardless of their own abandoning types of behavior. So you could probably activate that fear and bring her home. So f**king what? That's all it would be.
Then I guess you could be like some guys and lord it over her and keep that fear going all the time that you are a great catch, she's not really worthy of, and she always stands to lose you and she'd better know her place in the relationship. You could probably even make her pay for the marriage counseling if you worked it just right. That sounds great, doesn't it?
A borderline comes home from jealousy?? That's like getting a dog to come home because it's hungry. Whoopteedoo. You've solved nothing. That's just a kneejerk reaction to her deepseated insecurity. Then it's just a matter of time until it happens again.
I believe a comment was made somewhere that this technique worked "to get my wife to do what I wanted." Well...if that's the kind of person you are.
i love your journaling, by the way. you have a great ear for dialogue. good narrative structure too. are you a writer or have you considered writing anything?
Ryepatch. Thank you much for the compliment. I am an engineer; math was my subject. I never enjoyed nor did well in writing. However, I have found it soothing to do it here.
I believe my lack of writing skills is the reason I try to recollect the dialogue. Its easier to just write down the phrases that were said than trying to describe the jist of the conversation.
That sounds great, doesn't it?