Actually robx (I like robx), I read your entire thread and I don't think I ever saw that you did date anyone else. I know you contemplated it. Did you date others? When? What happened?
I haven't updated that thing forever, after a while I just got so invested in monitoring all the other threads that I rarely had time to update my own.
Yes I dated, I dated several women, it was the most terrifying and exhilarating process all at the same time LOL! It has been many years since I had "dated" anyone, the first one was difficult and they became progressively easier as time passed on until I became a "pro" at it (for lack of a better word). I used online services, I dated old friends of my wife that apparently had been interested in me and popped out of the woodwork when news of our separation became "public" information. I was never intimate with any of them but a few of them were quite "hungry" and vocal about it (especially one of my wife's friends who was going through a divorce at the time). I can't say the boost to the ego wasn't appreciated, it was. I had done a 180 in my life, picked myself up, started going to the gym, pushing some heavy iron (I had done this years ago when I first started seeing my wife) and my muscles responded well, having a bit of memory to this process, I lost a ton of weight, I felt great, I ate healthy, shopped for new clothes, cropped the 'do, seriously I walked around feeling like I was a million bucks, I still feel that way - it's awesome. The dates were usually one time things but a few of them progressed to 2nd & 3rd dates but I knew enough to stop it at the point and I made it clear to the other person after the first or second date that the "chemistry wasn't there" but it was a good experience, most if not all of them told me to look them up again if I ever changed my mind. I really opened my eyes to the whole single scene, there are LOTS of women out there and based on the feedback I rec'd and personal observation, I wasn't just OK, I was a really decent catch - I actually got pooped after a while, the single life is busy when you're dating, working full time, parenting and having joint custody (and actually I pretty much have near full custody at this point, I'd say I have them 80% of the time now if not more). Women were impressed that I was a single dad, working full time, being successful, looking good and keeping busy. It was my vibe, it was my attitude, even when I told them that the chemistry wasn't there, I didn't turn them off, if anything and this is the weird part, they continued calling & emailing afterwards when I said that, I had never been in the position to be pursued, it was awkward & funny to say the least, sometimes I would just smile to myself. I don't look for external validation but I can see why some people get off on it, if feels really good - however I made sure to realize internally that external validation/attention from others wouldn't be the source for my great self-esteem, I was responsible for that and in taking that power, I pretty much removed anyone's ability to make me feel bad. Control is an illusion for the most part, you can't control people, if you try, they rebel. You can't control the weather, etc. You can control your actions through conscious choices and there is alot of power in that.
Anyways back to the story of dating, I was dating alot, and one of my wife's friends who doesn't live locally anymore (she wasn't even in the city at the time either) heard from a friend of hers through the grapevine that I was dating other women. WOW! All I can say is news like that spreads faster than wildfire! My wife found out and she flipped and I thought it was funny. All along she had been doing "her thing", enjoying the single life, going to clubs/bars/parties, hanging out with men, a couple in particular she was having fun with all along treating me with so much disrespect and I just put my foot down and I wouldn't be the lovestruck sucker waiting for my wife to snap out of it. I actually thank my wife's friend, I know those girls love to gossip, it was always one of my pet peeves about her group of friends, they get together and talk about everyone, so when news of me dating got out, IT GOT OUT! LOL!
She was angry, angrier than you could (or I could) imagine and then after the anger came this huge reversal of roles, I stopped pursuing her, enjoying my life, dating other women, having a great time (and no, there were no sexy time explosions, this was all done according to a plan that I finally had the balls to implement), she started pursuing me, rationalizing with me, calling me, asking for another chance, talking about marriage counselling, playing the guilt card: "I thought you loved me" "I thought you said you would wait forever" "I'm sorry for treating you so badly" "those guys never meant anything" "but I love you" "I don't know what I was doing, I was crazy" "What about our kids?" "We're married, we should try harder" "I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I mean it, I'm really sorry" - cry, weep, weep, wash, rinse, repeat
I saw myself in her at that point, trying to rationalize, trying to argue, scared, in a crisis, the fear of loss generated when the person you love doesn't want to be with you anymore, the pleading, begging, etc. It was unattractive, honestly when this was happening, it was repulsive, I took a step back and thought to myself, "was I like this?"
Where am I now? She comes over regularly, sleeps over regularly, she asks to go out all the time, coffee, dinner, movies, the beach, walks in the park, we should go on a trip, etc. etc.
Where was this person before all of this? Why couldn't she just love me as I was? I don't know. Maybe on some level she realized that I didn't feel that great about myself and she mirrored that. As much as we think love conquers all, it doesn't. You have to make that relationship into what you want it to be, you can't will it to be that way. It requires work, it requires personal development and when one of you strays, it requires double duty on your part to improve and then show them what they're going to lose because just as the possibility exists to lose your spouse, the flipside is they can lose you: the fear of loss, the crisis, this is what moves people to action. Otherwise what would be the impetus for anyone to change in this specific situation? Buying them roses every other day won't work. Buying them gifts isn't going to work. Giving them everything they want doesn't work. It communicates that you by yourself aren't good enough to be with them so you have to supplement you with gifts & goodies just to be on the same level and that's just bull$hit (pardon my french) because you communicate that to them and train them & yourself to believe it.
When she had lost all respect for me because I let her push past all of my boundaries and treat me horribly, she couldn't love me anymore. When she did something wrong, I kept my mouth shut without saying "hey when you did this, it was wrong, it hurt me/bothered me, smarten up, it's disrespectful". Without respect, there is no love - I know this to be 100% true. My wife respects me now, and I don't make it easy on her either because we're not back yet and when we are back i know it will be because of the work I put into myself and the actions I took to get us here: I paved & led the way because that's where I wanted to be and i knew that no one else would bring me there except for me. I bust her on pretty much every crap behavior she exhibits when it's called for, if she has attitude and starts to push me (and I look for these tests now, I can see them now where as before I never saw them), I call her on it, call her a brat, tell her that her temper tantrums may work on other people but i'm not impressed, I tell her she's unattractive when she gets angry, I don't argue with her and tell her that arguing immaturely with me is very disrespectful. When she is moody and quiet, I tell her to speak up because as much as I can be understanding & compassionate, I also know that if you let them brew in their silence, they fester and get angry. Spill the beans, you don't like something say so, if it's within my power to do something about this, I would rather change & improve something instead of wondering what I should do. Speak up and I'll respect you more for your honesty and I will not respect you if you are silent and not communicative about any issue you have problems with! She pays for marriage counselling that we go to, I told her that if it's worth it to her, she'll show it. I am respectful of her, she is the mother of my children and I do love her but I won't go back to being that person that supplicated her and enabled all those crap behaviors to begin with because I realize that I have to take responsibility for my role in all of this. I also don't want the relationship I had with her, I want something new & better otherwise what's the point? I care for her, I want to be excited about her, after this type of process and the time that goes with it, it's a struggle and I have to remember the work & effort that was put into all of this.
So would binviting single moms over for playdates (for the children I mean) be considered dating?
tristan was the first one to suggest this!
And have decided against it for the reasons stated above.
What? that it might be the most successful technique to bust your separation?
If my extreme example offends you, well, this thread needs an extreme example. Everytime I read this situation, I am reminded of your first post and this comment:
Quote:
So my problem is this: I know she still talks to the OM daily (often 2 or 3 times). I am suspicious (but can not confirm) that she has seen him a couple of times over the past 2 weeks as well. After she crashed because of the allergic reaction, I was giving her a pass on the OM (she was essentually a mental mess). However, I know this EA has to end before we can fully heal. Since I have stopped talking about the OM, things have been getting better.
Giving your wife a "pass" to carry on an affair because of an allergic reaction? That to me seems EXTREME! That doesn't work. What did it get you? She moved out a month later. Its pretty naive to think your kids wont be introduced to this OM in the near future. At least she will have a few "dates" under her belt beforehand. 'wacko nut burger. ' jeez.
I dont remember suggesting you get romantically involved with someone and introduce her to your kids as their new step-mother. And I fail to see how one or a few social interactions means "it" inevitably has to work out. "It" usually doesn't. I didn't think that was the goal here. Rather your wife needs a wake up call. 2 years is an awfully long time to carry on a Emotional/'kissing' affair with someone all the while stringing you along. I taught your play date idea was a very good one. One that would work in your situation. Maybe I shouldnt have said Red Robin. That ruined it I quess. It must convey that you are having sex without protection and trying for children. It doesnt matter it was an extreme example to convey an important point. What matters is that you have the tools in front of you; you need to use them effectively to save your marriage. You can do alot of damage to destroy her fantasy early in this transition, marriage >> separation >> divorce. This new romance and the emotions associated with it need to be conquered even at the expense of seeming immature, juvenile and high schoolish. There are storys of women who travel half-way across the country to cheat on their husbands with Internet chat room partners on this bulletin board. That alone should tell you the power of these emotions and chemicals. By no means would I sit back and watch that happen in my marriage. If someone is to consider me a wacko nut job or immature man for going to extremes to save my marriage. So be it. As long as they are not telling me to sit back patiently while my wife drifts through the 'fog' and wait it out till her lover becomes sexually bored with her. (put nicely).
Actually robx (I like robx), I read your entire thread and I don't think I ever saw that you did date anyone else. I know you contemplated it. Did you date others? When? What happened?
I haven't updated that thing forever, after a while I just got so invested in monitoring all the other threads that I rarely had time to update my own.
Yes I dated, I dated several women, it was the most terrifying and exhilarating process all at the same time LOL! It has been many years since I had "dated" anyone, the first one was difficult and they became progressively easier as time passed on until I became a "pro" at it (for lack of a better word). I used online services, I dated old friends of my wife that apparently had been interested in me and popped out of the woodwork when news of our separation became "public" information. I was never intimate with any of them but a few of them were quite "hungry" and vocal about it (especially one of my wife's friends who was going through a divorce at the time). I can't say the boost to the ego wasn't appreciated, it was. I had done a 180 in my life, picked myself up, started going to the gym, pushing some heavy iron (I had done this years ago when I first started seeing my wife) and my muscles responded well, having a bit of memory to this process, I lost a ton of weight, I felt great, I ate healthy, shopped for new clothes, cropped the 'do, seriously I walked around feeling like I was a million bucks, I still feel that way - it's awesome. The dates were usually one time things but a few of them progressed to 2nd & 3rd dates but I knew enough to stop it at the point and I made it clear to the other person after the first or second date that the "chemistry wasn't there" but it was a good experience, most if not all of them told me to look them up again if I ever changed my mind. I really opened my eyes to the whole single scene, there are LOTS of women out there and based on the feedback I rec'd and personal observation, I wasn't just OK, I was a really decent catch - I actually got pooped after a while, the single life is busy when you're dating, working full time, parenting and having joint custody (and actually I pretty much have near full custody at this point, I'd say I have them 80% of the time now if not more). Women were impressed that I was a single dad, working full time, being successful, looking good and keeping busy. It was my vibe, it was my attitude, even when I told them that the chemistry wasn't there, I didn't turn them off, if anything and this is the weird part, they continued calling & emailing afterwards when I said that, I had never been in the position to be pursued, it was awkward & funny to say the least, sometimes I would just smile to myself. I don't look for external validation but I can see why some people get off on it, if feels really good - however I made sure to realize internally that external validation/attention from others wouldn't be the source for my great self-esteem, I was responsible for that and in taking that power, I pretty much removed anyone's ability to make me feel bad. Control is an illusion for the most part, you can't control people, if you try, they rebel. You can't control the weather, etc. You can control your actions through conscious choices and there is alot of power in that.
Anyways back to the story of dating, I was dating alot, and one of my wife's friends who doesn't live locally anymore (she wasn't even in the city at the time either) heard from a friend of hers through the grapevine that I was dating other women. WOW! All I can say is news like that spreads faster than wildfire! My wife found out and she flipped and I thought it was funny. All along she had been doing "her thing", enjoying the single life, going to clubs/bars/parties, hanging out with men, a couple in particular she was having fun with all along treating me with so much disrespect and I just put my foot down and I wouldn't be the lovestruck sucker waiting for my wife to snap out of it. I actually thank my wife's friend, I know those girls love to gossip, it was always one of my pet peeves about her group of friends, they get together and talk about everyone, so when news of me dating got out, IT GOT OUT! LOL!
She was angry, angrier than you could (or I could) imagine and then after the anger came this huge reversal of roles, I stopped pursuing her, enjoying my life, dating other women, having a great time (and no, there were no sexy time explosions, this was all done according to a plan that I finally had the balls to implement), she started pursuing me, rationalizing with me, calling me, asking for another chance, talking about marriage counselling, playing the guilt card: "I thought you loved me" "I thought you said you would wait forever" "I'm sorry for treating you so badly" "those guys never meant anything" "but I love you" "I don't know what I was doing, I was crazy" "What about our kids?" "We're married, we should try harder" "I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I mean it, I'm really sorry" - cry, weep, weep, wash, rinse, repeat
I saw myself in her at that point, trying to rationalize, trying to argue, scared, in a crisis, the fear of loss generated when the person you love doesn't want to be with you anymore, the pleading, begging, etc. It was unattractive, honestly when this was happening, it was repulsive, I took a step back and thought to myself, "was I like this?"
Where am I now? She comes over regularly, sleeps over regularly, she asks to go out all the time, coffee, dinner, movies, the beach, walks in the park, we should go on a trip, etc. etc.
Where was this person before all of this? Why couldn't she just love me as I was? I don't know. Maybe on some level she realized that I didn't feel that great about myself and she mirrored that. As much as we think love conquers all, it doesn't. You have to make that relationship into what you want it to be, you can't will it to be that way. It requires work, it requires personal development and when one of you strays, it requires double duty on your part to improve and then show them what they're going to lose because just as the possibility exists to lose your spouse, the flipside is they can lose you: the fear of loss, the crisis, this is what moves people to action. Otherwise what would be the impetus for anyone to change in this specific situation? Buying them roses every other day won't work. Buying them gifts isn't going to work. Giving them everything they want doesn't work. It communicates that you by yourself aren't good enough to be with them so you have to supplement you with gifts & goodies just to be on the same level and that's just bull$hit (pardon my french) because you communicate that to them and train them & yourself to believe it.
When she had lost all respect for me because I let her push past all of my boundaries and treat me horribly, she couldn't love me anymore. When she did something wrong, I kept my mouth shut without saying "hey when you did this, it was wrong, it hurt me/bothered me, smarten up, it's disrespectful". Without respect, there is no love - I know this to be 100% true. My wife respects me now, and I don't make it easy on her either because we're not back yet and when we are back i know it will be because of the work I put into myself and the actions I took to get us here: I paved & led the way because that's where I wanted to be and i knew that no one else would bring me there except for me. I bust her on pretty much every crap behavior she exhibits when it's called for, if she has attitude and starts to push me (and I look for these tests now, I can see them now where as before I never saw them), I call her on it, call her a brat, tell her that her temper tantrums may work on other people but i'm not impressed, I tell her she's unattractive when she gets angry, I don't argue with her and tell her that arguing immaturely with me is very disrespectful. When she is moody and quiet, I tell her to speak up because as much as I can be understanding & compassionate, I also know that if you let them brew in their silence, they fester and get angry. Spill the beans, you don't like something say so, if it's within my power to do something about this, I would rather change & improve something instead of wondering what I should do. Speak up and I'll respect you more for your honesty and I will not respect you if you are silent and not communicative about any issue you have problems with! She pays for marriage counselling that we go to, I told her that if it's worth it to her, she'll show it. I am respectful of her, she is the mother of my children and I do love her but I won't go back to being that person that supplicated her and enabled all those crap behaviors to begin with because I realize that I have to take responsibility for my role in all of this. I also don't want the relationship I had with her, I want something new & better otherwise what's the point? I care for her, I want to be excited about her, after this type of process and the time that goes with it, it's a struggle and I have to remember the work & effort that was put into all of this.
Nice! The much coveted Puppy Four Whistle Award.
M22,H45,W45 S21/18D12 Retain faith that you will prevail in the end, regardless of the difficulties and at the same time confront the most brutal facts of your current reality, whatever they might be.
No, I don't agree with dating while you are married. I think the swagger/mojo/confidence/groove/vibe/attitude that you give off is paramount and you can't get there with detaching. You can create lot's of mystery that is healthy, moral and ethical. You have to get to place in your mind that you don't need your WAS to go forward, you want them but you will thrive regardless. So it is a mindset. I understand what RobX is saying, I see the value in it. You would have to decide what dating is vs just hanging out. You would need boundaries that were transparent to be comfortable to do it if you wanted.
The Puppy Four Whistles is like seeing a unicorn or BigFoot or the Loch Ness Monster. I thought it was just a myth but it's for real.
M22,H45,W45 S21/18D12 Retain faith that you will prevail in the end, regardless of the difficulties and at the same time confront the most brutal facts of your current reality, whatever they might be.
Thanks Coach! I'm glad to hear a different opinion. I've always thought that dating when you were M was wrong but I think my opinion is in the minority. I think there is allot of bad that can come out of adding a third or forth dimension to an already strained R. Not arguing if it is effective in the short term as jealousy can be very powerful. What troubles me is it is very manipulative among other things.
_________________________ Me-41 W-39 M-15 yrs T-17 yrs D-12 S-9 S-8 B 5/08 S 1/09
I dont remember suggesting you get romantically involved with someone and introduce her to your kids as their new step-mother. And I fail to see how one or a few social interactions means "it" inevitably has to work out. "It" usually doesn't. I didn't think that was the goal here. Rather your wife needs a wake up call.
Hey Steve, I hope you didn't think I was calling you a wacko nutburger LOL! I'm in total agreement with your posts and dating other women to create fear of loss with his wife.
My post was aimed at anyone thinking that dating would mean bring a woman home and introducing them to the kids, I would never do that personally and I don't think anyone should bring their dates home to meet the kids - I don't see any purpose in it.
