Now, an interesting thing happened last night totally unexpected and out of left field, but the more I thought about what I have learned by reading these boards I realized I shouldn't be that suprised.
As you can see from the above post I finally started to let go and decide that I might be better off without her, and even though D is not what I would have wanted I can't see a way through this darkness given her closed mind and attitude about everything. I had told her over the past few days that I am letting go and that we need to talk about separation/D. I told her she should start looking at rental houses for herself, and otherwise start planning. I filled out some court papers that she would need to take to her L (she doesn't have one yet) in order to calculate child support.
Yesterday I also told her to not leave with our kids and that we needed to work something reasonable out if she leaves as far as custody/visitation, but don't steal them in the middle of the night (I have a cousin who did that to her husband).
For whatever reason, she decides she wants to talk last night. I will spare you all the details, but the key thing was that I continued my stance of the M being over and agreeing with her on that point, always careful to say "if you HAD decided you wanted to work on it xxx might have happened, etc etc". I always talked about M as something that is in the past, as opposed to what I would say previously, which was "IF you decide to work on it ..." and referring to a future together.
Her big complaint was that I have told people about what she did, and that I don't trust her and as a result keep checking up on her and asking questions (duh!). It is interesting but her perception is ANY question I ask her is considered snooping whereas in most cases I am just trying to make conversation ("what did you do today?" is considered an interrogation).
I told her she has given me NO REASON to trust her anyway, so why would she expect any different, but that I am done with all that now and am tired of wasting my precious energy on someone who doesn't respect me and our M.
I told her I haven't spent one day during the past nine months NOT thinking about her and OM and that it was going to stop, NOW. I finally realize the tragedy of the time wasted and anguish I have endured. It isn't worth it anymore. I told her that if I thought she wanted to work on the M and had taken real steps in that direction I would have trusted her and worked hard to put her EA behind me, but she didn't put in any effort and just got worse over time.
Her response was "What would I need to do to try to work on M in your opinion?". Prior to last night, her attitude was "There is nothing to work on because M is over so I don't want to talk about it". She didn't openly admit that the M could be saved, but the fact that she actually asked this question was noteworthy.
I said:
a) move back into our bed, if for any reason to hide our issues from kids b) never contact OM again c) go to MC, in addition to her own IC, to discuss lingering issues where our opinions differ (like, whether or not her behavior is appropriate for someone who is M) d) open up her mind to the possibility that hte M may survive somehow
The conversation ended and then when I go up to bed later I find her sleeping in our bed ?!?!?!? She hasn't been there in nearly 3 months (except when her other room was used by kids)! During the conversation she also agreed about going to MC (so we can work out issues since even if we split up we will need to do that, etc etc). Prior to this she said NO to any type of further joint counseling since we went to Retrouvaille Jan-Mar.
I think she is doing the trick of trying to pull LBS back when she senses that LBS is letting go.
If I am right about this, it is textbook behavior based upon what Sandi, Gucci, Coach, and Puppy all have been preaching. I finally got to the point where I was ready to move on and now she is stirring. I am not completely ready to believe that this is happening because her behavior is so erratic and this was just a small movement in the grand scheme of things, so I am going to continue the way I was going and observe what happens, but I sensed a definite change in the weather with her last night, after I had moved on to a new place the past week or two. For the first time I feel like I could move on without her and be OK, and not wanting to continue the sacrifice.
ME/XW:47 S21, D19, S15, S14 M:21 T:26 W moved 6/10 I filed 7/10 D final 4/12 remarried 8/12 W wants to R 12/10 and 4/11 but I decline
M22,H45,W45 S21/18D12 Retain faith that you will prevail in the end, regardless of the difficulties and at the same time confront the most brutal facts of your current reality, whatever they might be.
Good job. Yes, it is textbook. You are just ANOTHER example of this happening. Glad you listened. Feels good to get strong and make a stand doesn't it?.. Not only that.. It WORKS much better than hanging in there...
Now.. It is important how you continue to handle this...
Quote:
am not completely ready to believe that this is happening because her behavior is so erratic and this was just a small movement in the grand scheme of things, so I am going to continue the way I was going and observe what happens
The key comment you made here is.. "I am going to continue the way I was going and observe what happens"
Now.. DO JUST THAT. Let HER do what is necessary to make this right. IF she means it, then she will.
Your attitude should be this.. For example... Regarding the OM...
"I am not going to be your daddy and force you to do anything EVER AGAIN. (which means you put NO PRESSURE on her to dump the OM)(that will come because of her fear of you letting go..) I do know that I WILL NOT SHARE a woman of mine ever again."
That is the attitude. You need to keep doing just like you were, which was talk in "past" terms. (that was very wise of you and don't stop doing it UNTIL you are convinced that she means business.)
EXCELLENT job, just excellent... You need to use your new knowledge to help others to see the error of their ways on this senseless hanging in there and hoping things will get better and suddenly the WS will wake up and come running back . They usually don't.
Glad to see she responded. Not surprised, but glad for you.
As far as the conversation - one difference was I refrained from arguing about OM - I told her I am done talking about him and that if she wanted to argue about it we could do it in front of an C and that I am tired of devoting energy to it. Her opinions about what is appropriate in that area are totally ridiculous.
I had a different attitude during the conversation than I had had in the past. I was more confident I think, and also very firm about what I was saying regarding M being over and that I was dissapointed that we couldn't find a way to make it work, but oh well. I was tired of sharing a W with others.
I never got emotional or angry. The conversation went on because she didn't get overly emotional either (she usually blows first and then I walk away).
Last edited by tryingtilDorR; 08/27/0905:18 PM.
ME/XW:47 S21, D19, S15, S14 M:21 T:26 W moved 6/10 I filed 7/10 D final 4/12 remarried 8/12 W wants to R 12/10 and 4/11 but I decline
Feels good to get strong and make a stand doesn't it?
Can I get a amen?
M22,H45,W45 S21/18D12 Retain faith that you will prevail in the end, regardless of the difficulties and at the same time confront the most brutal facts of your current reality, whatever they might be.
As far as the conversation - one difference was I refrained from arguing about OM - I told her I am done talking about him and that if she wanted to argue about it we could do it in front of an C and that I am tired of devoting energy to it. Her opinions about what is appropriate in that area are totally ridiculous.
I had a different attitude during the conversation than I had had in the past. I was more confident I think, and also very firm about what I was saying regarding M being over and that I was dissapointed that we couldn't find a way to make it work, but oh well. I was tired of sharing a W with others.
I never got emotional or angry. The conversation went on because she didn't get overly emotional either (she usually blows first and then I walk away).
Yes, keep thinking out loud so you really understand it.
Plus hopefully some more DBers will see it.
M22,H45,W45 S21/18D12 Retain faith that you will prevail in the end, regardless of the difficulties and at the same time confront the most brutal facts of your current reality, whatever they might be.
Thanks Gucci for your advice that I have read all over this forum - yes I think I am getting it. Every situation is different, but letting go is the key ingredient. My IC had told me the same thing. She said that the ONLY situations she had seen turned around only happened after the LBS was ready to move on (really ready, not fooling themselves into thinking they were ready).
The great thing is that if you can really get there you can do some cake-eating yourself. You are prepared to move on without fear without WAS, but at the same time *might* get the choice to keep her also.
ME/XW:47 S21, D19, S15, S14 M:21 T:26 W moved 6/10 I filed 7/10 D final 4/12 remarried 8/12 W wants to R 12/10 and 4/11 but I decline
EXCELLENT job, just excellent... You need to use your new knowledge to help others to see the error of their ways on this senseless hanging in there and hoping things will get better and suddenly the WS will wake up and come running back . They usually don't.
Yes I will try to help others. Even if we end up D I have seen that the other strategy (hanging on) doesn't work.
I turned a corner when I finally saw what I looked like in her eyes (weak). I thought about what I would do if she were a girlfriend who broke up with me and I wanted to get her back - the things I was doing were NOT the right strategy and would never work. However, you can't just 'act' a certain way, you have to really FEEL like you don't need them and that if for whatever reason they decide they want to come back you can decide what to do (your decision, not theirs). Sandi told me they can see it in your eyes and its true.
I went through a cycle like this with an old girlfriend or two waaaaaay back in HS and it is amazing that some of the same principles still apply. We forget that after being with someone for so many years I think.
ME/XW:47 S21, D19, S15, S14 M:21 T:26 W moved 6/10 I filed 7/10 D final 4/12 remarried 8/12 W wants to R 12/10 and 4/11 but I decline
Yes Coach - Amen. It is liberating to know you are on firm footing with your own confidence and emotions regarding either outcome. You operate from a position of strength and confidence and not fear.
ME/XW:47 S21, D19, S15, S14 M:21 T:26 W moved 6/10 I filed 7/10 D final 4/12 remarried 8/12 W wants to R 12/10 and 4/11 but I decline
