As I said on Orich's thread once, half jokingly, "Can a guy just give me a back rub without it leading to ML?" The guys pretty much said "NO WE CAN"T! We are men..."
Touching between spouses tends to lead to that.
Can a guy (I'm assuming your husband) give you a backrub without it leading to ML?
Yes.
Can your husband just have sex with you without having to give you a backrub?
Maybe he's been trained to believe that you won't give him sex any other way unless he does something for you. Maybe he feels thats the only way he can get some from you? Maybe/maybe not?
Is that possible to?
No, in this M that is not possible. And you are way out of bounds here b/c you post without knowing someone's sitch. If we only ML when he gave me back rubs we would rarely have sex.
My h is a really good man, and I mean that. But he's not able to give me therapeutic back rubs (or at least not very often) and so, when I need a massage for more than 5 min b/c of an old back surgery, I don't choose to torture him by asking something of him that he's not really able to do. (And he has not been "trained" by me as he is a man, not a dog. Jesus, what is in your past that makes you think so badly of women?? I mean your post had about 3 comments in it that put us down like we're all emasculating shrews...)
Did you mean your post to sound insulting? It was. I don't use sex as a weapon. Neither does my h. Maybe that's why I've been faithful to my h for 28 years and believe he has also been to me, and maybe it's ONE reason we are still married, and our div never happened...
When I posted my back rub question (on another's thread) it was mostly in jest & and I loved the feedback b/c it was hilarious, which I posted some of here. But you chose to respond in a way that really insulted me and since you don't know me, it insults women in general and that wasn't called for. I do not know your sitch, so I won't go there. Regarding your comments---
I am sure that some women must use sex as a weapon, or so many men would not complain of it. But I don't personally know many who do, or at least who admit it.
FYI, if it matters, I DO know women who say they don't feel like ML when their h's have been curt, or cold or critical to them all day, but then suddenly at bed time their h's decide they NOW "feel romantic" which means they want sex, and if the wife doesn't get on board fast enough, or wants some conflict resolution first (and no, I don't mean "grovelling", & I'm using my words carefully here), she's accused of "withholding" sex, or using sex as a weapon, or God knows what else...
Is that what you mean? My h doesn't do that either, by the way. He wants to make love when it feels loving to US. We both do.
That has not ever been an issue for us in our m, even in our darkest days. You couldn't know this b/c you don't know my sitch and this is not my thread. But You need to read much more about someone's sitch, before hurling out a smug put down like that, really.
To those women who make their kind hearted h's beg or plead for sex, I'd say "get help. It's not loving and it's weird." To those men who are truly clueless, I'd say that a few loving comments, or whatever your w's love language is, should start a few hours before you want to ML so she knows it's not a "2 minute tactic", and she'll be "in the mood" a lot more if she feels good about herself, which means no criticism from her h, and the M in general.
Sorry for the hijack Tristan, and as I said before, your sensitivity in this area is admirable. You know your w intimately and far far better than anyone here obviously. Trust what you know. I hope she gets the help she needs, for both of your sakes.
j-
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
Friday afternoon, I took children to work picnic as W looked at appartments with MIL (UUGH). Went to a mutual friends after the picnic. Hung around the house for a while in the evening, things were very icy between W and I. She was going to go meet a frined after putting girls to bed and suggested that I go see her at a bar while she was putting the girls to bed. Strange, I know, but I went.
Her friend is very nice. But she also thinks that we should seperate for W sake. She is not one that is very religious and does not really believe in committed relationships (saying they are bound to fail because it is not human nature). This is not the type of advice that I like my W to be taking, but it is what it is. We talked a little about what was going on. It seems W is only telling friend half the story, which I guess isn't all that surprising. W called friend and asked if they could meet at her place. Friend finished drink and left. I decided to GAL a little and went out. This morning W told me that friend thought it was the best conversation we had had ever. That I really opened up. I am not sure if that is good or bad.
Anyway, my wife told me this morning that she has found a place and would like to sign a lease. She says she needs some support for the children and money for security deposit and first months rent. We have money in savings. How do I handle this. I make about 160% of what she does. In conversing this morning, I said I have already given so much. Mentioning that she would not of had her school loans paid off if it weren't for my income, etc. She took it as insult crying and saying "See, there you go again. Not treating me as an equal partner. It's the same old you. Nothing has changed."
She also said she would like about $2000 dollars to furnish it. We have it in savings, but this whole ordeal is going to be very expensive. It scares me that she has this bipolar diagnosis and seems to be somewhat manic right now. I am afraid she may spend quite a bit to get her new place as nice as the old. The place she wants to rent is more expensive than our current mortgage. How do I handle this? I have no idea.
There's nothing that says you have to finance her waywardness, nor SHOULD you. Let her use her own income, and become best friends with your town's CraigsList.
To help pay for her to leave you would be horribly enabling.
You know, I've had conversation with my W about how expensive all this is going to be. We're in agreement. We need to conserve. We're buying less expensive food, etc. and a main component of this "renting a place" is the expense. In fact, I think it's a stumbling block for W in pulling the trigger.
Can you just tell her "we can't afford this." If she wants you to work with her, she's got to work with you. If she wants this, she needs to be realistic. Renting a place that is more than your mortgage is NOT REALISTIC. Seperation is going to mean sacrafice.
If she wants you to work with her, she's got to work with you. If she wants this, she needs to be realistic. Renting a place that is more than your mortgage is NOT REALISTIC. Seperation is going to mean sacrafice.
How much CAN you guys afford? Set a boundary.
This.
"Show me a completely smooth operation and I'll show you someone who's covering mistakes. Real boats rock." -- Frank Herbert
No, in this M that is not possible. And you are way out of bounds here b/c you post without knowing someone's sitch. If we only ML when he gave me back rubs we would rarely have sex.
My h is a really good man, and I mean that. But he's not able to give me therapeutic back rubs (or at least not very often) and so, when I need a massage for more than 5 min b/c of an old back surgery, I don't choose to torture him by asking something of him that he's not really able to do. (And he has not been "trained" by me as he is a man, not a dog. Jesus, what is in your past that makes you think so badly of women?? I mean your post had about 3 comments in it that put us down like we're all emasculating shrews...)
Did you mean your post to sound insulting? It was. I don't use sex as a weapon. Neither does my h. Maybe that's why I've been faithful to my h for 28 years and believe he has also been to me, and maybe it's ONE reason we are still married, and our div never happened...
When I posted my back rub question (on another's thread) it was mostly in jest & and I loved the feedback b/c it was hilarious, which I posted some of here. But you chose to respond in a way that really insulted me and since you don't know me, it insults women in general and that wasn't called for. I do not know your sitch, so I won't go there. Regarding your comments---
I am sure that some women must use sex as a weapon, or so many men would not complain of it. But I don't personally know many who do, or at least who admit it.
FYI, if it matters, I DO know women who say they don't feel like ML when their h's have been curt, or cold or critical to them all day, but then suddenly at bed time their h's decide they NOW "feel romantic" which means they want sex, and if the wife doesn't get on board fast enough, or wants some conflict resolution first (and no, I don't mean "grovelling", & I'm using my words carefully here), she's accused of "withholding" sex, or using sex as a weapon, or God knows what else...
Is that what you mean? My h doesn't do that either, by the way. He wants to make love when it feels loving to US. We both do.
That has not ever been an issue for us in our m, even in our darkest days. You couldn't know this b/c you don't know my sitch and this is not my thread. But You need to read much more about someone's sitch, before hurling out a smug put down like that, really.
To those women who make their kind hearted h's beg or plead for sex, I'd say "get help. It's not loving and it's weird." To those men who are truly clueless, I'd say that a few loving comments, or whatever your w's love language is, should start a few hours before you want to ML so she knows it's not a "2 minute tactic", and she'll be "in the mood" a lot more if she feels good about herself, which means no criticism from her h, and the M in general.
Sorry for the hijack Tristan, and as I said before, your sensitivity in this area is admirable. You know your w intimately and far far better than anyone here obviously. Trust what you know. I hope she gets the help she needs, for both of your sakes. j-
25yearsmlc, it seems with you and breakaway, and again this is just an observation, I make a statement and apparently touch a sensitive nerve.
Let's be clear on this, I don't know you or breakaway, so when I post something like this, taking something like this and revealing so much personal detail on your part isn't necessary as is defending yourself which for the most part it sounds like what you're doing. Your husband is great guy, awesome, you have a good marriage, awesome too! That is good news. My post wasn't insulting, it actually was a question that appears to be honest & direct. Is it that unheard of, is it so outlandish that this sort of thing could only be possible in an alternate universe/reality? I think not. There was no need for you take any of my questions or statements personally and there was no need to defend against it. The most direct answer would have been "NO, IT'S NOT", the rest of your post was unnecessary.
When marriages hit stumbling blocks, sex is used as a tool to gain an advantage or a method of demonstrating control and it's unfortunate that it happens and apparently it happens often to many couples.
25yearsmlc, if that's not the case in your sitch, I am happy to hear that.
Friday afternoon, I took children to work picnic as W looked at appartments with MIL (UUGH). Went to a mutual friends after the picnic. Hung around the house for a while in the evening, things were very icy between W and I. She was going to go meet a frined after putting girls to bed and suggested that I go see her at a bar while she was putting the girls to bed. Strange, I know, but I went.
Her friend is very nice. But she also thinks that we should seperate for W sake. She is not one that is very religious and does not really believe in committed relationships (saying they are bound to fail because it is not human nature). This is not the type of advice that I like my W to be taking, but it is what it is. We talked a little about what was going on. It seems W is only telling friend half the story, which I guess isn't all that surprising. W called friend and asked if they could meet at her place. Friend finished drink and left. I decided to GAL a little and went out. This morning W told me that friend thought it was the best conversation we had had ever. That I really opened up. I am not sure if that is good or bad.
Anyway, my wife told me this morning that she has found a place and would like to sign a lease. She says she needs some support for the children and money for security deposit and first months rent. We have money in savings. How do I handle this. I make about 160% of what she does. In conversing this morning, I said I have already given so much. Mentioning that she would not of had her school loans paid off if it weren't for my income, etc. She took it as insult crying and saying "See, there you go again. Not treating me as an equal partner. It's the same old you. Nothing has changed."
She also said she would like about $2000 dollars to furnish it. We have it in savings, but this whole ordeal is going to be very expensive. It scares me that she has this bipolar diagnosis and seems to be somewhat manic right now. I am afraid she may spend quite a bit to get her new place as nice as the old. The place she wants to rent is more expensive than our current mortgage. How do I handle this? I have no idea.
Thanks for the advice.
The thing is you are no longer equal partners. She has the OM who she is having an affair with and you don't have an OW who you're having an affair with. You aren't equal. She wants to separate and you don't, equal partners wouldn't separate.
She wants to separate, she needs to know that doing so involves consequences, you can't be and shouldn't be expect to finance her affair & separation.
The quickest route between point A and point B here would be "NO I can't pay for your apartment".
You will support your children and seek joint custody of them but you can't pay for her apartment. The joint savings are meant for both of you to use together on something, You're not getting anything out of spending that money on her apartment so why should you agree to letting her use your joint savings for that?
Tell her she's a big girl and since she's adult enough to make the decision of leaving you to be with the OM, she's big enough to pay for her own rent. You never signed for anything more than marriage. If she wants something outside the marriage, she can take care of that herself.
You have a pair, own them.
Did you mention (remember you're not asking for her approval) that you are considering seeing other women to experience first hand what she is going through so you can understand this better?
I read a number of your posts in this and other threads and would be interested in some feedback on my sitch. Sorry for the hijack Tristan and good luck!
M: 41 W: 39 S: 11 S: 10 D: 4 1st contact w/OM: 1/19/09 EA began: 2/14/09 EA discovered: 3/1/09 I file for D 8/25/09 to protect myself _______________________________
There you go again. I won my bet. You bully women on this site until they leave here, or surrender.... After posting something that clearly was inappropriate on YOUR end, I called you on it. I knew an apology was impossible but I wanted to make my point. (And It is not the offended party that is "wrong yet again, " but you the maker of the comment).
Tristan would do well to learn what NOT to do or say to women by modeling your behavior.
Instead of simply saying "sorry" b/c by your own admission, you know nothing of my m or another's situation and then you plow ahead and hurl out a bold assertion that offends, and you are dismissive of those who find it inaccurate or offensive. IF it's a woman, God help her, b/c your attacks are only starting, "she's over sensitive" or has some "odd nerve" you touched..why not call her "hysterical" or "PMSing"? Your unrelenting in your aggression.
You don't have well formed opinions b/c you don't know someone's story, but you will insult them, and then when called on it, you keep going! You keep on bullying women here. In real life? Oh I wouldn't hazard a guess, (and I know you won't either...)
It's sad for Tristan, b/c Women who stopped posting here b/c of YOU, could have been very useful to Tristan and you are not, except for showing him how not to act.
You won't even take the time to learn anyone's sitch b/c you are just too busy, yet you'll launch a missile based on no info, and then pretend it was innocent, and anyone who takes offense is somehow wrong again...never you. You have issues with women, period. And those issues of control and contempt were revealed here again.
Put your ego aside, and try to help Tristan without condescendingly disrespecting women at every turn..... Is it that a lot of women are just plain wrong/crazy/hysterical about your comments, or is it possible that YOU offend us? Is that too, a possibility? Just a thought.
j-
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
If she wants to be equal partners, why should you pay her way? She wants equality, let her get it. She can't have it both ways where you take care of her needs and finances, so she can "feel like an adult" and faces no real responsiblitlies for being single...
It's not about control okay? You can tell her, you are glad she wants equal RESPONSIBILITY, which is what it takes to get equal rights, so sit down like two adults and work out a budget where she gets to pay her share and that's all she pays but that's all she gets too. yes her standard of living may suffer but as long as the kids are fine, so be it.
THE kids are your concern, as she "finds herself"....not her. Make sense? Try not to sound punitive but just calm and clear about what you'll do and what you won't. If possible, and it won't be easy, be "supportive" in the sense that you are "letting her go, " but NOT a doormat who subsidizes her singleness. It's a tough line to follow, good luck, J-
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
