Robx, probably part of what we have here is a failure to communicate in the same way. I get very twitchy when I hear statements framed as "she is doing x because of y/she will/she feels" or "You should/need to" etc instead of "she may be...." , "you might consider" etc.
Declarative statements of that nature, especially regarding a complex and indeed possibly dangerous situation we only hear one half of seem to me to betray a lamentable lack of humility and caution and can also be easily perceived as bullying a person who is understandably *desperate* for some, any, answer.
Although of course you are right to point out that Tristan is a grown man and can weigh all of our advice rationally while always remembering what he paid for it.
Regarding the meds, I don't think anyone is expecting Tristan to monitor her compliance. By his account, her physicians are still experimenting with correct dosage. These are psychoactive drugs, not get-out-of-infidelity-free sugar pills we're talking about here. This seems like a good time for watchful waiting, if he's able to endure and still maintain his own mental balance. IMHO.
We should probably bow out of the debate portion of the program now, as I think Tristan probably has enough drama in his home without worrying about it on his thread.
"Show me a completely smooth operation and I'll show you someone who's covering mistakes. Real boats rock." -- Frank Herbert
... We should probably bow out of the debate portion of the program now, as I think Tristan probably has enough drama in his home without worrying about it on his thread.
I agree!
I also believe we can agree on the fact that we all want the best for Tristan during this very trying time in his life.
Tristan appears to be asking for help. Telling him to sympathize with his wife's conditions & actions while neglecting his own personal value & self-respect in all of this in MY opinion isn't helping him much.
I could say "Hang in there Tristan, in the end you'll still be the better person!"
Or I can give him some tough love (and it hasn't been that tough yet), a kick in the pants, help him up when he falls and show him how to help himself up when he falls again the next time. I can tell him when he's acting insecure and it's affects on himself and his wife and why he should stop it. I can offer him some insight on the education I wish I had 10 years ago. He can choose to use the information and he can choose to disregard it, he has free will, much like his wife.
Rob, I was struck just now by just how closely the above describes my own general approach to helping others (or at least trying to) on these forums. I am often similarly called out as trying to be a "know-it-all." And I probably don't, as Kett suggests, take the time to couch my language with the softening "perhaps"s, "maybe"s and "have you considered"s that maybe I should.
We're all incredibly busy. We come here with some shred of free time that we have in our day to try to see if we can "pay it forward" and help someone else, and we all take different approaches and use different styles. I personally don't feel the need to do the "((((hugs!))))" thing, for the most part (I do sometimes), as there are so many others who do it better than I do, and it is perhaps even their ministry. I feel called more to "exhort," and call people -- especially men -- up to a stronger stand and a stronger standard, and encourage them to stop being a victim and try to get their power back in the relationship.
... We should probably bow out of the debate portion of the program now, as I think Tristan probably has enough drama in his home without worrying about it on his thread.
I agree!
I also believe we can agree on the fact that we all want the best for Tristan during this very trying time in his life.
we need LOTS more smileys around here! I got spoiled over on FITO, what with all the little smileys swordfighting, puking, rolling their eyes, munching popcorn, etc.
we need LOTS more smileys around here! I got spoiled over on FITO, what with all the little smileys swordfighting, puking, rolling their eyes, munching popcorn, etc.
Wait a minute! Puppy, you post somewhere else as well? When do you have time for that? Reminds me of a scene on Cheers when they had a bowling league with all the taverns having a team. The Cheers team was bowling and Norm walked in the bowling alley and went straight into the bar. When he opened the door the crowd inside cheered "Norm!" To which Cliffy replied, "he's got a life of his own you know."
Cheers
M22,H45,W45 S21/18D12 Retain faith that you will prevail in the end, regardless of the difficulties and at the same time confront the most brutal facts of your current reality, whatever they might be.
Tristan appears to be asking for help. Telling him to sympathize with his wife's conditions & actions while neglecting his own personal value & self-respect in all of this in MY opinion isn't helping him much.
I could say "Hang in there Tristan, in the end you'll still be the better person!"
Or I can give him some tough love (and it hasn't been that tough yet), a kick in the pants, help him up when he falls and show him how to help himself up when he falls again the next time. I can tell him when he's acting insecure and it's affects on himself and his wife and why he should stop it. I can offer him some insight on the education I wish I had 10 years ago. He can choose to use the information and he can choose to disregard it, he has free will, much like his wife.
Rob, I was struck just now by just how closely the above describes my own general approach to helping others (or at least trying to) on these forums. I am often similarly called out as trying to be a "know-it-all." And I probably don't, as Kett suggests, take the time to couch my language with the softening "perhaps"s, "maybe"s and "have you considered"s that maybe I should.
We're all incredibly busy. We come here with some shred of free time that we have in our day to try to see if we can "pay it forward" and help someone else, and we all take different approaches and use different styles. I personally don't feel the need to do the "((((hugs!))))" thing, for the most part (I do sometimes), as there are so many others who do it better than I do, and it is perhaps even their ministry. I feel called more to "exhort," and call people -- especially men -- up to a stronger stand and a stronger standard, and encourage them to stop being a victim and try to get their power back in the relationship.
I think we all offer a good mix.
Puppy
Preach it to the choir my brother from another mother ;-)
Mine is a much more direct approach that some people may not feel comfortable with. I don't mind the hugs and sometimes they're definitely called for, going through this process and helping alot of my friends who have gone through similar situations with their wives has made me realize that for the most part, this is an education that most men would benefit a great deal from.
Some men are born with the natural intuition in how to respond, some are born more assertive & more confident, depending on our individual life stories, alot of things came along the way which affected our development.
There are no courses in school that teach us this.
We have Math, English, Biology, Phys Ed, Chemistry, Physics, Calculus, physics, history, etc.
But no courses on how to be a strong masculine man, not a prick who beats up on women and is physically & verbally abusive to everyone around them but how to be strong, confident, masculine and the positive benefits attributed to realizing these attributes as a male.
No courses on what to expect with relationships, how to develop meaningful & fulfilling relationships, the value of being honest, communicating needs, the importance of self-respect, self-value, self-esteem, self-love, etc.
Sure sex ed covers insert slot A into slot B and use a raincoat to prevent getting black spots on your john thomas, hair will grow here, here and here, these areas of the body will develop, this is what happens when you get aroused, this part grows bigger, points up towards the north star, pregnancy occurs when millions of these little guys find this one egg and 9 months later you have the responsibility of a lifetime, etc. Which is all good & understandable when you're in grades 4,5 and 6 depending on the school system you're in.
No courses that I knew of growing up in my neck of the woods, and for the most part, alot of fathers don't do a great job of providing this education to their sons because they probably lack the required knowledge & skillset also. We're all just bumbling around hoping just to make it to the next level (ie. grow up, get married, have kids, so they can repeat the cycle) yet while we're on this level we aren't taught the necessary skills to grow & develop even more instead of remaining complacent - we plateau and get used to being comfortable with life as is and alot of us don't realize that there is more to life than just work, bills, mortgages, etc. (wash, rinse, repeat) or we're trapped into thinking that's what life is, why should you expect more, that's how it was when we were young, our parents did it, their parents also, and so on & so forth.
Reading any or all of this, hopefully you will see that I'm not that much of a hard a$$ (only when I want to be) ;-)
we need LOTS more smileys around here! I got spoiled over on FITO, what with all the little smileys swordfighting, puking, rolling their eyes, munching popcorn, etc.
Wait a minute! Puppy, you post somewhere else as well? When do you have time for that? Reminds me of a scene on Cheers when they had a bowling league with all the taverns having a team. The Cheers team was bowling and Norm walked in the bowling alley and went straight into the bar. When he opened the door the crowd inside cheered "Norm!" To which Cliffy replied, "he's got a life of his own you know."
