... M: "Did you see OM yesterday?" W: "Yes." M: "After Work?" W: "No. For lunch." ...
Do you notice that she flaunts her contact with the OM but in an innocent, don't be mad at me, I don't know what i'm doing type of way?
In your conversation with her, she even asked you if you are going to kick her out. She mentions separating, she mentions details about an open apartment that the other man has - why did that detail come up, why would the OM mention the open apartment to her, has she been there, have they been physically intimate, it seems to convenient to know about an apartment that she isn't going to be using when she moves out. Did she kiss him, she told you know but it's very possible that she was lying. She hasn't broken contact with him, she's very much attracted to him, infatuated is probably a more accurate term.
My take on this based on what I've read in the countless volumes of information available on this. WAS's will stop hiding their affairs with the OM after a while, when they feel they control their situation so much without any recourse or action on their spouse's part to defend against, they begin to openly flaunt what they're doing. Reason being... they feel guilty. They know what they're doing is wrong. They are waiting for you to do something, they are waiting for you to say something or give them a kick in the pants that says YOU MUST STOP THIS! You aren't doing any of this, you are treating her too nicely and she continues to treat you poorly and reward your kind actions & understand with more infidelity.
Einstein said that the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over & over again and expecting different results. You continue to think that being super nice to her, being perfect will magically lure her away from the OM and back to your loving arms but it isn't working is it. On top of that based on your description she feels horrible because regardless of the great husband you're being and all the great stuff you're doing, she still wants to be with the OM.
They (WAS's) have so much power at this point and literally can't stop themselves from doing anything, I believe that a WAS specifically the one you describe as your wife, is looking for direction, she's looking for you to tell her that this has gone on long enough.
"... I love you very much but I can't in good conscience continue to permit what you are doing to me, our marriage & our family. You must choose between him or me, no more waiting, no more testing the waters, trying to determine what the better choice is. You make a choice and live with it. We're adults and we're responsible for our actions, our decisions, that's how we live life but holding on to me & him is disrespectful of me. If the OM is that important to you and you can't decide to choose him or me I will make the decision for you and let you go and move on with my life. I won't compete with the OM for your love. If you can't see that I was always and will always be the better choice, it is your loss not mine and I respect myself enough to let go of the people in my life that don't value me or the relationship they have with me. You are practically dating another man while still being married to me and even if you can rationalize that behavior as being ok and label it as trying to discover yourself I won't do the same because I respect myself to much to allow you to continue hurting me." .... and then walk away.
Seriously, it's ballsy to openly admit to you that she had lunch with the other man during a family picnic with you.
She's looking to you for direction, leadership, a plan but she isn't getting it. You sit back, being the best loving husband you can be " Please continue to see the OM, it's ok with me, I'll be here waiting with supper ready when you get home."
Yes this isn't what you're going to do and you'll defend your actions with "because I love her...". I personally would have told her to leave, I would have told her that while she was out having lunch with the OM she should have stopped at the mall and picked up luggage to pack up her things and move out of the home.
She has lunch with the OM but then asks you to go to a picnic and pick up food for you, her and the family. She had no problem picking up food with the other man.
Respect yourself, please if you don't pick up anything else from all I've posted, please respect yourself.
I also guarantee that she will have a place of her own even though her mother has offered for her to move in with her to break her contact with the OM. Having a place of her own will allow her to continue seeing the OM.
And that "open apartment" she mentioned, she may not live there but the two of them will be using that apartment for other specific purposes. Good planning on his part that he already has a "lair" specifically suited for this purpose, open, no occupants, other end of the city, far away from prying eyes, discreet - perfectly suited for this purpose.
She brought up the separation as well, again. She's been thinking about it more & more. Those acts of affection: kissing & hugging, she probably does that more now than she ever did in the past, she feels guilty for what she's doing to you and is over-compensating with affection towards you to make you feel better.
Those kisses I'm sure taste bittersweet when you know she spends time with the OM.
My descriptions are graphic and are done so on purpose. Time to open the eyes a bit Tristan.
And please stop allowing her to use her sexual abuse issue as a crutch for her actions... "this happened to me so I'm going to do this and blame it on these past events and how they traumatized me". Someone posted earlier, she's an adult, allow her to claim responsibility for her actions & decisions and allow her to know the consequences of said actions.
When you finally do ask her to choose between you and the other man and she can't make a decision, throw this monkey wrench into the loop... "I guess it's ok for me to start dating and meeting OTHER WOMEN and maybe I'll find out first hand why it's such a hard decision for you to make."
When confronted with that possibility, her attitude may change, if it doesn't, it's just made your decision even easier.
I agree. Time to man up! Women are attracted to men that demand respect.
You should be telling her that you are not sure what you want either. You are not sure that you want her. It's dead on about wanting what you can't have. Let her think she doesnt have you anymore.
How do you think the OM acted? Did he chase her or did he play hard to get.
Regardless of the guilt you feel you need to keep telling yourself "I DONT DESERVE THIS... I DESERVE TO BE TREATED WITH LOVE AND RESPECT.... I AM A PERSON OF VALUE.... I DONT DESERVE TO BE CHEATED ON..."
Nice guys dont always have to finish last.
Take her cake away. If you dont you will be RESENTFUL and BITTER. It's just a matter of time.
I agree. Time to man up! Women are attracted to men that demand respect.
You should be telling her that you are not sure what you want either. You are not sure that you want her. It's dead on about wanting what you can't have. Let her think she doesnt have you anymore.
How do you think the OM acted? Did he chase her or did he play hard to get.
Regardless of the guilt you feel you need to keep telling yourself "I DONT DESERVE THIS... I DESERVE TO BE TREATED WITH LOVE AND RESPECT.... I AM A PERSON OF VALUE.... I DONT DESERVE TO BE CHEATED ON..."
Nice guys dont always have to finish last.
Take her cake away. If you dont you will be RESENTFUL and BITTER. It's just a matter of time.
Stay strong. PMA
Thank you PMA, I was beginning to think that my ideas had never been heard of before. Man Up is right!
Women not only want to be rescued but they also want a knight that will first slay the dragon.
She is begging you to stand up and fight for her and your family.
If she doesnt wake up then she wasnt worth it anyway.
Have you read DB/DR. "Stop doing what doesn't work..."
Try taking other people's advice that have dealt with this before.
If she is done then she is done. You are just putting off the inevitable. I know you dont want to face it, but it just continue to eat away at your soul. You can always take her back if that's what you want. FOr now kick her azz to the curb and demand respect. Would you let your child walk all over like this. Would you let a 17 yr old teenage daughter say that "im staying over at my boyfriends house???" HELL NO!!! Well that's how your W is acting. DEMAND RESPECT!!!!
"... I love you very much but I can't in good conscience continue to permit what you are doing to me, our marriage & our family. You must choose between him or me, no more waiting, no more testing the waters, trying to determine what the better choice is. You make a choice and live with it. We're adults and we're responsible for our actions, our decisions, that's how we live life but holding on to me & him is disrespectful of me. If the OM is that important to you and you can't decide to choose him or me I will make the decision for you and let you go and move on with my life. I won't compete with the OM for your love. If you can't see that I was always and will always be the better choice, it is your loss not mine and I respect myself enough to let go of the people in my life that don't value me or the relationship they have with me. You are practically dating another man while still being married to me and even if you can rationalize that behavior as being ok and label it as trying to discover yourself I won't do the same because I respect myself to much to allow you to continue hurting me."
I like this so much that I'll put it in quotes so that you could consider memorizing it. You can't ask her for respect if you are unwilling to show that you respect yourself.
You cannot be lonely if you like the person you're alone with. Dr. Wayne Dyer
I will agree with the whole concept of respecting yourself. But something needs to be kept in mind - is her mental diagnosis.
I deal with a spouse with the same issues...and it becomes a whole new ballgame. Tristan is dealing with someone that may very possibly not react the same way most WAWs would.
Tristan, I think you're handling yourself and your wife very respectfully now. It's trying....and it seems you're not letting it really get you down.
- from what I gather she is a social worker (correct me if I'm wrong), to be able to perform those duties responsibly means that she is in command of her mental faculties. She is also training others in this area: so she is able to provide guidance and also provide training/education. I don't sense and again I could be wrong that she is mentally deficient in this or any other area.
She is attracted to another man, infatuated enough to not want to let go of him. She is seeing this OM, sharing meals with him, discussing "open apartments", she feels guilty for her actions & feelings yet continues to do them because she can't help feeling attracted to him - that's how attraction works, we don't get to choose who we're attracted to. She is talking about separation yet still enjoys the security of her home and the relationship with her husband who currently acts as the backup plan should this relationship with the OM not work out. This is typical of affairs where the WAS is actively having an EA/PA while maintaining some semblance of married life to her spouse.
Tristan is dealing with a spouse who by the account of his own words & descriptions has asked him if he is angry with her, if he wants to kick her out of the home, how long is he going to wait for her, if he still loves her, etc. She is testing him and continuing her actions based on those test results. She knows that Tristan doesn't like the fact she is seeing another man but since Tristan doesn't want to stand up to her and tell her to cease these actions immediately or risk losing him she will continue doing what she is doing. She doesn't risk losing anything so she continues doing what she does and feels guilty because of it and on top of that openly flaunts the fact that she sees the OM, talks to him daily, goes out with him, has lunch with him, etc.
She will continue to do so until Tristan puts his foot down and forces her to make a choice. Why would she change her actions otherwise? What would be the impetus of this change?
For her, "it ain't broke so I won't fix it", she's getting certain needs met by the OM and she still has the security of backup option #2: Tristan.
If Tristan removes himself as backup option#2, he forces her to make a decision. Remaining as option #2 doesn't require her to make a decision, the only time she will make a decision is when the OM gets tired of her and then at that point, she has the security of her backup plan to fall back on.
Currently she's with OM right now, she isn't forced to make a decision between him & her husband so she won't and in reality, since she won't let go of the OM, she is choosing him over Tristan - I hope we all can see this and Tristan allows this/enables this by not requiring her to make a decision to choose OM or himself.
If & when he finally requires her to make a decision and by chance she chooses the OM. Tristan hasn't lost anything, in fact he currently doesn't have his wife, the OM does.
However in this scenario Tristan regains his life, he regains his self-respect because he doesn't compete with the other man (you should never compete with the other person, you don't have to prove you're better, competing communicates that you don't believe you're better already). He gets to live a more honest life, he doesn't have to guess where his wife is and what she is doing or if she really loves him or just provides affection to him because she feels guilty about hurting him.
The fact that she feels guilty is another example that shows that she knows what she is doing. She isn't oblivious to the effects it has on Tristan or her family, she has mentioned as much to him, yet she continues to disrespect him by seeing the OM and regardless of what she says to him, she doesn't respect him. You can't say you respect someone but continue to hurt them and do things to them that are hurtful.
We teach children at an early age that we say sorry when we do things that are considered wrong but we also teach them that saying sorry and repeating those same actions isn't the right thing to do, sometimes saying sorry isn't enough, we have to learn to do better.
When he shows that he truly respects himself, she will respect him and it won't happen before then. Respect & love are tied closely together and without respect, there can be no love - this much I'm certain of.
Hmm, actually, it is entirely possible for someone who qualifies for a clinical diagnosis (major depression, bi-polar, anxiety, whatever) to still be functional in a work environment. In fact, it is common.
I would be hesitant about using her alleged competence at work as a gauge of her overall mental state. That assessment is probably best left to her husband (who sees her in the home environment every day) and to the appropriate mental health professionals.
Last edited by Dia; 08/19/0908:12 PM.
The trouble with having an open mind is that people put things in it.
My sitch - Divorce Busted! http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1804137#Post1804137
