W can't break EA - not sure how to handle it

[tristan]

Good luck with your situation, tristan. I hope the link I gave you helped out. A good counselor will help you a lot, and help you with your children, whatever happens next in your life. You sound like the type of person who will be able to find your way.

Hi breakaway,

I am sorry to hear that you will be leaving this thread, but understand. I have really appreciated your advice. I feel my wife feels much the way you did. Which is why I am having a hard time figuring out how to deal with our situation. The simple formula does not seem to fit here. The solution may need to be the same, but it is much harder to kick someone out that you already see as a victim of so much.

Thank you for your advice. I greatly appreciate and respect it.

[robx]

...I'm not talking about "pickup skills," I'm talking about pretending to be loving, caring and compassionate to lure a woman. You know what, though, you're on to something, if LBH's talked to their wives the way OM's do, they would be happily married. You're a hypocrite, anyway, as you were giving lengthy details on how to gradually coax a woman into sex while pretending you're not.

The only hypocrite here is you.
If you communicated, really communicated to your husband instead of just assuming he read minds, you could have told him "Look husband, I am feeling unloved because you don't show me that you are loving, caring and compassionate to me. I need these things to feel loved and to maintain a loving attitude towards you. Without these things, I will become angry & distant towards you and will contemplate leaving and finding someone else who can provide those things for me."

But let me guess breakaway, you shouldn't have to communicate those things to your husband because he should already know. Who is setting the double standard now? As for your husband or any husband, he's not your daddy, he's not "supposed to" love you like your daddy does, no matter what you do and it's quite possible the distance created between the two of you withered & died because you also neglected and/or pissed on it because you didn't want to communicate your needs, you wanted him to just know just like that "pick up" guy and his manipulative ways knew and it brings us back full circle to the point that you wanted to be "taken", you wanted specific words spoken to you in such a way so that you could feel the emotion of love and then this "pick up" guy had his way with you and once he did he had no further use for you.

So instead of communicating your needs which would be the mature thing to do, instead of assuming your husband is a mind reader and should know those things, you gave up on him and his uncaring ways and found someone with an "attitude of manipulation" who saw that you were waiting for someone to do those things for you without you having to tell them to do those things which then allowed him to take advantage of you in a moment of weakness.

The true hypocrite is the person who says that such things happened in their lives and it was out of their control, they were "manipulated" by someone who said & did the right things and in doing so you release yourself from the responsibility of your life.

As for my telling Orich to offer massages. Providing footrubs, handrubs, backrubs, they're all considered "touch charges" and done in a loving manner go a long way to recreating a bonding process between spouses who don't engage in regular touching during a period of time when they're separating, not talking regularly to each other. I still stand by it, touching in either a sexual or non-sexual way does bond the people involved, doing it regularly improves that bonding experience. If wanting to touch our spouses because we derive pleasure from it is a manipulative thing then we're all guilty of it.

Breakaway you're angry and that's unfortunate but using me as a punching bag won't work. Plus the connotation of your responses all tend to have a hidden "me, me, me" flavor to them. If you want attention like I mentioned before, communicate with your husband and let him know exactly what you want. I think I've been rewarding your crap behavior with my replies & attention long enough so this will stop now from my end because I say it will. You continue to do what you like. You don't like my advice or my methods, good for you. I tend to be results oriented and I like what works but you can continue focusing on things that don't work because that is your choice.

Thank you & Good Day.

[pigskin]

Good luck with your situation, tristan. I hope the link I gave you helped out. A good counselor will help you a lot, and help you with your children, whatever happens next in your life. You sound like the type of person who will be able to find your way.

Hi breakaway,

I am sorry to hear that you will be leaving this thread, but understand. I have really appreciated your advice. I feel my wife feels much the way you did. Which is why I am having a hard time figuring out how to deal with our situation. The simple formula does not seem to fit here. The solution may need to be the same, but it is much harder to kick someone out that you already see as a victim of so much.

Thank you for your advice. I greatly appreciate and respect it.

Tristan, I am in a pretty similar situation as you, and have commented before on other threads about how such a fine line needs to be walked with regard to EAs. There is no one size fits all solution in my opinion because although scripts appear similar, each person involved is unique and brings different past experiences into the present.

You may see what appears to be conflicting advice sometimes between this site and the DR book. Detachment is advised a lot, but in my situation, loving detachment was what I had done my entire marriage. My family was loving but not demonstrative, and I was the same way. So detachment appeared to my wife as "more of the same" and had a negative affect. I'm NOT saying detachment doesn't work, just that you have to weigh your own situation and make sure it is appropriate.

I would love for there to be some action I could take to force the end of my wife's EA. But kicking her to the curb to make up her mind for her does not seem to be a good option for me right now. She has depression and we have 3 kids who love her.

It's hard as hell, especially when she engages in email conversations with the OM on our family vacation, and even on our anniversary. But she knows I've changed, and it is up to me to keep up the changes to ensure she can have faith they are permanent.

[Dia]

HI, Tristan,

I know you have a whole array of professionals helping you with your sitch, but FWIW I am not pressing the issue of H's OW and my DB Coach approves of the strategy. Granted, our sitches are different. H's is not a hot affair with frequent calls, texts or IMs. She lives about 2k miles away and they see each other maybe 4x/year. My take was to act like she doesn't exist and here's my current rationale:

1) If things between H and I continue to strengthen, she will very naturally drop away (meaning H will break up with her).

2) If H goes through with the D (nothing is filed yet), well - it won't matter.

Additionally, H and I did not have a strong connection at all when I started this work, so if I had pushed an ultimatum, I'd have lost, hands down. When the connection is stronger, I will take action if it is needed at that time.

Here's my bigggest concern with your sitch - if OM is really the creepy sexual predator he sounds like, there *is* something of an unholy attraction your W may be under. It will be hard for her to see and even harder to break. She would most likely defend OM if anyone said this to her directly. People always say that abused women stay with abusive men because they secretly think they deserve no better - but this is not often the subjective experience of the woman at the time. You can be under someone's control and not realize your strings are being pulled. Emotional blackmail is insidious because it flies under one's own radar much of the time.

I'm rambling here - so before I say more, I'll try to get my thoughts in order.

[pigskin]

1) If things between H and I continue to strengthen, she will very naturally drop away (meaning H will break up with her).

Additionally, H and I did not have a strong connection at all when I started this work, so if I had pushed an ultimatum, I'd have lost, hands down. When the connection is stronger, I will take action if it is needed at that time.

Those are great points, things I had not considered. Delivering an ultimatum when your spouse has emotionally detached from you does seem like a futile gesture and gift wrapping them for the OP...

[robx]

Those are great points, things I had not considered. Delivering an ultimatum when your spouse has emotionally detached from you does seem like a futile gesture and gift wrapping them for the OP...

How do you communicate that you respect & love yourself when you continue to allow someone to disrespect you.

Grow a spine and start to stand up for yourself. It’s impossible to truly love yourself & draw self esteem from within if you are letting people walk all over you. Every time you let someone treat you badly your self esteem drops just a little bit and you communicate to them that will continue to put up with poor treatment because you don't believe you deserve any better.

Gift wrapping your spouse to the OP... no wrapping required, they are already with the OP, it's not a gift that you have to give.

Tolerating poor treatment of yourself by others will always communicate that you love them more than you love yourself and that it's ok to treat you badly. You also communicate that you can be controlled.

"..I love you very much, you are on a pedestal where I put you so that you are way above my level and I will always be looking up at you, worshipping you. I will continue to love you while you hurt me by being with the OP."

Sounds to me like that would work.... NOT!

You will never get respect from others when you allow them to continually treat you poorly. Setting boundaries is essential to any loving relationship, without boundaries people will continue to push there way over you to see how far they can push you, too see how much they can treat you poorly - I fail to see what good can be accomplished by allowing this to happen. If you have children, is this what you will communicate to them when they are in similar situations?

You can not get love from your spouse without respect from your spouse. Both are required for either to exist.

It's not my rule, that's just how it is.

If you are truly willing to do anything to get your marriages back on track, do what works. Your spouses need to trust you, part of rebuilding that trust means respecting yourself enough to let go of the people that hurt you and don't value you or the relationship they're in with you. If they respect you, they can trust you and it would allow them to love you.

It's not attractive to your spouse that you don't respect or love yourself, the OP's that they're with command more love & respect from your spouses than you do - once you can see that, you can see why they're with them and not with you.

[robx]

don't believe me, listen to Gucci, he has more info on this process than anyone else on this forum:

Nothing new to report with SIL. We heard they are in counseling and that they went on a date last week. Haven't heard feedback on how the date went...


Also...

For all those who still question how well "social interaction" (aka seeing someone else when you have a WS)

Read Redsoxfan's new post....


As I have told many of you time and time again...

REALITY... Redsoxfan didn't want her back UNTIL she was seeing someone else... Notice how quickly he turned around and how serious he is about reconciling.. (no surprise to me..)

REALITY.. Listen to reality...

They come back faster when you let go.. when you start dating...

This is ANOTHER example of it.

[robx]

and yet another from Gucci, read it, learn it, live it...

When a woman has an affair on a man, deep down she feels guilty because she knows it is wrong. However, the woman usually builds a wall around her guilt by blaming the BS (betrayed spouse) and telling him that a big part of the reason is because he didn't this or didn't that or did this to her or did that to her…

The Betrayed Spouse usually buys right into her reasons for justifying her affair and starts begging, pleading and telling her he will change... This is almost always met with... "too little, too late" ILYBINILWY and a thousand other reasons or excuses. He keeps trying harder and harder to show her how he has changed and learned the error of his ways…

All the while, she is THINKING about how great the OM is. Daydreaming about him, talking to him, and probably sleeping with him and lying to the BS about what is really happening....

She does NOT respect you. Why?

Because you have not shown her and told her that you are not going to share her with another man. AND if she wants to be with other men, that she CANNOT have you too.

End of conversation with her... Leave her alone. Do not chase her, do not call her. This woman NEEDS to see and feel that you RESPECT YOURSELF enough that you can (and WILL) do better than being with a woman who can't or isn't faithful. It isn't up for negotiation and you will not compete for her and that HE can have her....

When you learn to respect yourself like that, then she WILL notice. She may or may not come back, but she WILL respect you and I would bet money that you would be secretly surprised about not only your growth as a male, but surprised how she may see you in a much more respectful light, which may even bring her back.... On YOUR terms...

And a sample from another one:

Women have proven over and over and over and over again throughout the history of man.... They are ATTRACTED to confident, strong, funny, men who have a BACKBONE and are decisive... And YET.... Are sensitive to HER needs... (Notice I didn't say is a "sensitive man")...

...When it comes to women, "he (gucci) get's it." I've seen that when people follow his and Puppy Dog Tails advice they start getting results. From my understanding of their posts DB / DR is a little weak on the affair side of things.

[/quote]

[tristan]

Hi Robx or anyone,

So lets say I do decide to ask her to leave. What is the best way to do that in a manner that is respectful to myself and her? How do I handle the children? I am not going to leave the house and children for her. What are the logistics?

Thanks

[pigskin]

don't believe me, listen to Gucci, he has more info on this process than anyone else on this forum:

Nothing new to report with SIL. We heard they are in counseling and that they went on a date last week. Haven't heard feedback on how the date went...


Also...

For all those who still question how well "social interaction" (aka seeing someone else when you have a WS)

Read Redsoxfan's new post....


As I have told many of you time and time again...

REALITY... Redsoxfan didn't want her back UNTIL she was seeing someone else... Notice how quickly he turned around and how serious he is about reconciling.. (no surprise to me..)

REALITY.. Listen to reality...

They come back faster when you let go.. when you start dating...

This is ANOTHER example of it.

I don't disagree that it is possible for this approach to work. I do disagree that it will work for everyone. And for some people dating others is not an option, as they won't battle infidelity with infidelity of their own, be it for moral or religious reasons.

There is no one size fits all.