Hey Rob, so glad to hear you are happy!! And yes, I did question him. Hey GAG.. a lurker, well, I am glad its been of some use, god knows we all need it here hey, at least I did then very very much!!
Hi K.. how are you? So.. we had a big talk tonight, 1-2 hours. I asked him directly, did anything I do affect your decision to come back, or was it that you just had to come around to that place within yourself and decide... he thought about it for a while and said, no, it was just in me really, I arrived at that place on my own, but I never stopped thinking about you, or loving you, looking back. Everything seems to be about him (even the convo, seeing as he was frowning and stressed and said he is 'riddled' with guilt). So tonight, I had to go to his old flat complex, as part of my new job to inspect land nearby.. I told him when I got in that I felt a bit sad there. He said nothing. Later, after we talked, he said he could tell it had bought up stuff for me, but he was tired, just got in from work, felt dreadfully guilty and so, selfishly, decided not to say anything because it makes HIM feel bad. So he allowed me to talk and ask questions later on, as I needed to.
He says he really doesnt remember his thought processes for much of the past 18 monhths, that he felt crazy, spinning around, that looking back he cant believe how he acted, or why, he cant fathom it, it feels alien to him, who he is, that he would behave that way, that he wasnt making good decisions for himself or anyone. THat he feels embarressed and foolish and soooo guilty for what he put me through and for no reason.
I said it was for a reason, he wasnt well and it was something he needed to do. He agreed and said, he thinks looking back he had some sort of breakdown (which is what I always thought, I told him).
I asked him why didnt he phone from August? He said he wanted to and thouht about me all the time, but guilt always stopped him. I asked, did he do that thing where he dialed even and then put the phone down.. he said yes, he did, a few times! He looked amazed at himself and upset at the memory and said he really wanted to talk to me. I said, why didnt you call then? He said, because of guilt. I was paralysed with guilt, I felt awful and I didnt know what to say, what could I say, eventhough I was worried about you and missed you. I said, but even when I was being so accepting and friendly on emails? He said yes, you were I know, but I dont know why not, I just felt so bad and guilty that stupidly and selfishly, I just didnt call you just because I was thinking of myself..He never stopped thinking about me/loving me, even in the early days of their R and said he realises now how stupid and insane it was that he was even putting effort in to making it work. But that it was never natural and he cant understand why he perpetuated it for so long, but then, he was mainly fighting the fact he hates to upset people, cant bear it. It wasnt until March/April that he stopped feeling so crazy and really started to organise his thoughts and begin to really make proper decisions and realised it wasnt fair to ANYONE what he was doing.
He says he remembers getting emails from me and liking it, but he never told her about them. She did ask if we were in contact and he just said "we had been". I asked him if he felt he had been honest with her, he said looking back, no, not at all as he tried not to talk to her about me. He also said that she asked about selling the houses and he said not now, because of the market but in reality, he never wanted to sell them.. because they were "our houses" and he had no intentions of.
About emails from him, that he doesnt remember NOT asking questions in them when he was first with her. When he did later on, no, it wasnt so that I then had to reply to him, it was purely because he was curious and wanted to know about my life and started pulling himself out of the hole he was in and wanting to know about my life and see me. I said he wasnt before that, for a time he didnt ask questions, again, he said it was just guilt, but he doesnt remember and it wasnt deliberate, or premeditated. Ditto the not replying sometimes, it wasnt deliberate and he doesnt remember. He has no clue why he wouldnt give me his address or let me come to his flat all that time, it upsets him to think about it as he behaved in such an odd and out of character way.
He said that in terms of GAL, he did notice and think that I seemed more outgoing, but on the whole he sees me now as he did then, that I am just being me, being myself. Seems it didnt affect his decision to come back, but I guess it didnt make him NOT want me back either and what it definetly did do he said, was make him worry I would find someone else. He worried all teh time, especially with my BMF, he figured he was sniffing around me and worried when I told him how much time we spent together. Wierd that he worried all the time.. I asked him, did you think I might go out with someone else, or even hope that I would, when you started seeing someone? He said no, he didnt want me to get a bf, ridiculous hey, but he didnt want me to even after he started seeing Helen and never stopped worrying that I would. But he said, what could I do? It had happened, I didnt go looking for it and I didnt know how to change it, undo it and what to say.. so he just said/did nothing.
He says he feels 'grateful' and lucky I took him back and that I am brilliant, so glad I got that out of him ! But that he doesnt feel insecure as I have done a good job of reassureing him. Lastly, I asked him why he got so stressed about these convos, he said because he understands I want to talk about stuff to lay it to rest and thats fair enough and only right, but from his perspective he just wants to lay it to rest by never thinking about it ever again. He says he just wants to forget the whole 2 years and put it behind him and never talk of it again. He cant believe how he behaved and cant identify with the person he was then, that he cant get his mind into his mind as it was then. So, all in all.. he has alot of healing to do it seems and he says he is still, massively guilt ridden for what he put me through and cant bear to hear how bad it was for me.
I dont know if this helps anyone.. but message seems to be from him anyway, they lose their minds, we may analyse texts/emails etc, but seems its not deliberate/premeditated and if you are just being yourself, the person they fell in love with, they MAY come back around, but its really down to them if they do.
Wishing anyone reading, sweet dreams and peace of mind, Al xxx
they lose their minds, we may analyse texts/emails etc, but seems its not deliberate/premeditated and if you are just being yourself, the person they fell in love with, they MAY come back around, but its really down to them if they do.
That is good to know. I think it helps to hear that to know it's not personal.
I imagine if you hadn't been DBing, he wouldn't have liked your e-mails so much though! LMAO.
Michelle - Proud DR Rockette S: 28JUL07, D'd: 29OCT09 http://tinyurl.com/27j9qo2
He told you exactly what we all thought: He noticed you went on living w/out him and it scared him to death.
That is what we're supposed to do w/DBing...live for ourselves and if the other one comes back and wants to join in, then great!
He doesn't know how much you masked things and he really doesn't need to know either. You showed him what he was missing...YOU! He got the message, but I agree w/Michelle that he wouldn't have if you wouldn't have been DBing all along.
Good job, Ali! It's so nice to see some people on the boards who actually get what we all want! Hope you are very happy and working out the little glitches. Please do continue to post insights as you get them; they are very helpful. Enjoy!!
Peace, Dawn
Me 45/H 47, no kids Together since 1985; M/1992 Bomb1 (EA-OW1, age 22) 2001 Bomb2 (EA/PA-OW2, age 22) 10/2007, A continues H left 11/24/08 minimal contact, no legal action http://tinyurl.com/DawnHope1
Don't underestimate how much influence your behavio(u)r had on his actions. There were a lot of "I don't knows" and such in his explanation. All along he saw a safe haven to return to, even if he didn't realize it. He saw a strong, capable woman. He saw that the grass wasn't greener. He's not going to remember individual events, or things you said. But there were feelings that you allowed to grow.
DBing is a tricky thing. I don't think it's a sequence of events, of actions. It's an attitude, and a way of life. It's impossible to say what would have happened if you had not been DBing, but I'm guessing the outcome would not have been as positive for either of you.
Thank you VERY much for sharing your convo with BF!!! It is enlightening and much appreciated! It helps me to feel less critical of H (going through a period in which my frustration and anger has been bubbling up after 11 months of "sainthood").
Everyone's commentaries are also enlightening and appreciated as well. Thank you all.
Hey everyone! Sorry my last post was actually pretty dashed off and I didnt have time to comment too much. Although he knows full well about my "support group" on the internet, he hasnt, as far as I know gone looking for it or read my posts, so I dont advertise to him that I am posting, its still private, for me.
So, I agree with you Michelle, Rob, Jeff.. I didnt explain well, but I meant, DBing was a big factor..you dont get angry/vengeful/mean/move on and date if you are DBing! You are gentle and accepting and show continued interest in them, but that ulitmately, you cant 'do' anything as such, he said so himself, although all sitches are different I guess. DBing teaches you to find yourself, GAL, be more confident, outgoing, patient, accepting etc and yes, all of those things do that vital thing "make the path home smooth" as it says.. makes them see you once again as the person they knew you to be, the person they fell in love with and hey, we all to some extent get complacent and focus on kids/work and less on ourselves or our partners, s the years go by. So I agree, DBing is a way to make it easier to come back, if thats what they want in their heart. Its the second bit I suppose that we cant control hey!
I feel that in alot of cases, it isnt personal. They do go on a journey. I think the fact we all are here is because we share in common the kind of person as spouse who has issues, or is unable to express themselves, so they blow, or snap and go.. and then they process, or go through a big depression/breakdown, as my bf did.
And yes GoodAG, I had compassion for my bf as I could see what a state he was in and then its hard to take it personally (but its also hard to be on the receiving end of such harsh reality as someone walking out!). And MrsM, hi, nice to see you back.. I was pretty stunned when he said that, that he just wantes to never think about it ever again, neverlone talk about it! Last night, I sort of mentioned something and he straight away said "stop asking me questions!" almost half joking, half weary, so I shutup. I think that will have to be it for now on the questions front!
We are very together, every day/night, lots of hugs and affection still.. BUT.. we are now not ML at all. He cant, he actually sort of refuses. He says he loves me, we're living together again, he wants to be with me, he's not going anyway, but his sex drive has gone and he doenst know why. He says he is 'tired' and doesnt feel s*xy. I asked if it was to do with helen and he looked pained and said "dont.. No, it isnt" I asked if it was guilt, he said no, he doesnt know why it is, but it will return, he is sure it will and for me to please, please, not worry. That he does find me attractive, absolutely and wants to ML, he just cant.
This is of course very hard for me and he's not really explaining and I cant help feeling worried and rejected, we've only been back together 3 months, but I will trust that its a phase and I know from here, pretty normal I think in Piecing! He seems to be in a bit of a grief phase for who he was and what he has done and he is still on ADs, so I'm not going to push it and he is very very reassuring and loving, as I am with him.
So, I hope my posts have helped some people a little. He really cant stress enough how guilt stopped him contacting me, saying things, seeing me and now, seems he feels guilt towards OW and to me. And yes MrsM, he says he feels sooo embarressed and foolish, what must people think of him, friends, family, mine particularly. He said he cant bear to look an idiot or to mess up and he did, bigtime and that pride and what people thought of him were a BIG factor in just flailing around not knowing how to reverse his decisions (leaving me and then dating ow and introducing her to friends and family as his gf). He said it took him months to get his head around it and it was only because he couldnt stop thinking about me that he said he knew it wasnt fair on anyone and he had to do something. He said that if it wasnt for thinking about me all the time, it would have carried on for longer with her, EVENTHOUGH he said they had little in common, bar work, that she was not on his wavelength, not funny, not fun to be around, shouted at him and that she became annoying toward the end... and I said, so how come you would have stayed with her then??? He said, because, I am weak and once you are in something, its easier to just bimble along, oh, so I'm doing this now then.. than make the big decision and to really really upset someone and hurt them.. I cant stand to upset people, I cant stand it, I'm a people pleaser and I hate for people to not like me...
So, a combination of what people think, basic character, weakness and perhaps laziness.. contributes to these WAS staying with nightmare OW in some cases it seems.
Me:40! H:37 Together: 12yrs IDLY & left 11/07 ADs 03/08 OW 8/08 Reconciled 05/09 now married! my thread
Thanks for the additional insight! Much appreciated.
On the ML...that could totally be the ADs. It is one of the major side effects of almost all ADs. Of course, he needs to be on them right now. But yes, it should be temporary, and should get a little better as he gets used to the meds again. Don't take it personally sweetie.
Michelle - Proud DR Rockette S: 28JUL07, D'd: 29OCT09 http://tinyurl.com/27j9qo2
