[quote=robx] LOL. Oh, thank you, big masculine man for telling addled little me what the truth is about what women "really want." I can't admit I want a man to take me. Is that it? Thanks.
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And if we don't want to admit that physical affairs are happening and that women & men are cheating on their respective spouses with other people and having sex, the kind of sex that is initiated without the fear of rejection, the kind of sex which is lustful & passionate & physical vs. the "same old boring routine", than you're not admitting what is actually happening in real life.
Hmmm....well, been there, done that, got a scarlet letter t-shirt in real life. I'd say you have tunnel vision about what is going on in affairs.
Your response shows your insecurity if you know it or not. Which is unfortunate for you, I'm not affected either way.
As far as "been there done that", were you the one that initiated the affair or was it your spouse? Would being honest & direct have helped in that situation if one you weren't getting your needs met or was it more satisfying to experience the dishonesty & lying which accompanied the physical affair?
lmao....the entire last page is an example of your gaslighting, circular reasoning, word twisting, etc etc. (ex. saying I'm the one who says I blow up, when I was responding to you saying it first...nice try)
You want to know about me, you can read my threads. My life has been a living hell for the last several years as anyone who has followed my sitch knows. I made a bad situation worse, and I've said so. My point was that I have personal experience in what WAW's think and do and what verbally and emotionally abusive husbands think and do and what psychopathic online predators think and do. (One thing they do is read stupid websites like the Art Of Seduction to come up with ideas like how to massage your way into sex with someone who is resistant.)
+100 to everything aliveandkicking said...especially that we're talking about broken marriages here, not intact ones.
And Orich and whomeever else is reading, check for my updates later (I don't have time right now) because I can tell you guys about the hot sex my H HAS been getting since he started treating me like a human being instead of his personal possession.
My goodness, you certainly have a bit of anger & steam to vent off today, LOL! I won't take it personally though because I really don't know you personally.
I may know a bit about emotionally & verbally abusive spouses, I won't say "husbands" as I believe that this description can be applied to both husbands & wives. As for the online predator label, I don't know who you would be referring to so I don't know why you even included that reference along with that website of which i have no knowledge or affiliation - since you have knowledge of these things, I'll leave it up to everyone else to make their own conclusions.
You certainly sound angry and if you aren't then you certainly have me confused.
As far as being a walk away wife, if that is your experience, I can't judge you for those actions or what you did to make your own situation worse - you aren't my wife, it isn't my life that was affected by your actions and it isn't my place to judge either way.
The main point I made regardless if you can see it or not was telling Orich that sleeping in the same bed as his wife for several months without having any physical contact with her for fear of "showing that he is pursuing" has yielded him.... NADA!!! That's right, he has several months of nothing to show for it because he is afraid that it shows pursuing. Heaven forbid that he shows interest in his wife of ALL PEOPLE! Heaven forbid that he shows sexual interest in his wife, that he is still attracted to her. You are right breakaway, he shouldn't offer her any type of indication that he is interested in his WIFE. He should continue sleeping in the same bed next to her for the next several months and possibly through divine intervention, his wife will just jump his bones and they'll be perfect & happy all over again.
Is he dating another woman? Is he sleeping with other women? Is he picking up women at clubs? Why you brought up that website is beyond me? I told Orich because he dropped by tristan's thread and asked a question and I told him to show his wife that he is physically attracted to her and to not take rejection personally and to offer her things like a backrub or footrub if she didn't want to have sex. But I guess that would be a bad thing, to show his wife he is interested in her because after several months of doing nothing and not pursuing, he has certainly bridged the emotional connection with his wife and they're doing great.
Yes heaven help us all that we can't be honest with the people we love and tell them we're physically attracted to them and want to be physically intimate with them.
Yes being honest & direct is a bad thing - you're right... it doesn't show confidence.
We should all be dishonest & lie to get what we want because look how well it's worked thus far, I mean the affairs were great while they lasted and we didn't mind lying to our spouses and sneaking around their backs to get our physical needs met because heaven forbid we communicated directly what we wanted from our spouses instead of assuming they're mind readers.
Well I won't play that game: I will be honest & direct along with being emotionally sensitive but I won't lie to get what I want because I know I can get what I want by being honest.
Breakaway, I'll be honest with you, you sound very bitter with your responses directed towards me, it's like I've touched a sensitive nerve, I don't know what your situation is and what happened in it to make you feel this way specifically to anonymous people on the internet but in my opinion, I don't think it's good and you have alot of personal issues to resolve. I still stand behind my ideas and posts to Orich, several months of doing nothing have yielded nothing in his situation and it's time to change it up to get different results and it's quite possible she wants him to show interest in her but she doesn't want to tell him that, maybe she wants him to discover that, maybe she wants to be wanted and currently isn't getting anything like that from orich.
FYI - I actually tried to read some of your posts but the links in your signature seem to be broken, I can't get to the original post you originally submitted which has your original situation and what happened.
Tristan my apologies for hijacking your thread here, this seems to have turned into a playground for a few of us and I'm sure you didn't get anything productive out of our posts.
In short, robx, I think asking for sex just for sex is great...caveat- when a marriage is in tact.
This is about reality, not what should be.
Yes, having an affair and/or withholding sex are emotionally abusive behaviors. However, there is always something happening within the dynamic that is perpetuating it (and those two are VERY different things, affair or withholding).
We are not talking about what should be but what is. When a woman leaves the R emotionally, sex is usually not the way back in.
The confidence the men here need (the women too) is confidence that needs to be generated separate and apart from a spouse who has essentially demeaned and disrespected them. I joked with my H that he would want to have sex with me even if we were signing D papers and I was right. Sex is sex. It means almost nothing once the relationship is on the ropes. And women are particularly sensitive to this. Seeing as DB is about trying to salvage a M in which one person is actively leaving...unfortunately, fair or not, it is important to pay attention to what that spouse needs to feel secure or at least open to the possibility of a satisfying R.
I agree that optimally, sex should be without strings and yes, I want to be "taken" but not by someone who is failing to deliver in every other area.
Thank you for your response, you hit the nail right on the head - I couldn't agree more.
Thank you for your response, you hit the nail right on the head - I couldn't agree more.
Cool, I love that this conversation got somewhere. If we (men & women) don't recognize we speak different languages and stretch ourselves to understand each other, we're just wasting words here.
Saturday: Made the 4 hour trip with D3 to my grandfather's birthday party. D3 was amazingly good, although she did vomit in the car one the way down). W is right when she says "They (the girls) are much easier to handle when they are apart." Accidently left cell phone in W's purse from date night before. I guess she didn't realize that and tried calling several times and ended up calling my dad to try to talk to me, we had already left the party and were on the way when she called. When we got home (11PM), I saw that the light in our bedroom light was on. By the time I had gotten up to the room, the light was off and she was asleep (or at least acting) on her far side of the bed. She woke up when I got to bed and asked how the party was. She seemed distant. She said that she called a few times to see how we were doing. I told her that I had left the phone in her purse and thought she would have figured it out. I guess not. Anyway she seemed to warm up a little after she realized what happened.
Going to sleep left an awkward moment: Me: "This is wierd" W: "It is awkward" M: "I'm not sure what you want me to be." W: "How about a friend" M: "OK... Do you want me to kiss you goodnight?" W: "What about on the cheek."
I kiss her on the cheek and we hug.
W: "May I have your back?"
We cuddle and go to sleep.
Sunday: As always, it is the children that wake us up on the weekend. My wife gets out of bed first because it is she that the girls are pulling on. However, I force myself up shortly there after. We spend the morning making pancakes for her mom and the girls; it is somewhat of a ritual to do this on the weekend. Chocolate Chip for the girls; Honey-wheat for us and MIL. We then got ready and went to church. We came home, W & MIL put some lunch together as I mowed the lawn. W & MIL put together quite a lunch: Hamburgers, Pasta salad, Fruit salad, Creamed Rice, Bread and Rolls. Lunch was relaxing and W told me to play with girls while she cleaned up. I painted with D5 while D3 did her own thing.
After dishes, W asked if I wanted to go out and get some items to do some gardening. We run to get some mulch and new flowers and spend much of the rest of the day gardening. Afterward, we were both pretty hot so she suggest jumping in the baby-pool with the girls. A water fight pursues which was a ton of fun for the entire family. Afterward, we are drying off and cleaning up in our room. She walks by and I kiss her on the head. "Sorry, I couldn't help it", I say as I touch her cheek to look at me. We have a gentle kiss until D3 says "Mommy, daddy. Stop kissing." As we pull away, she says "I love you so much." "I love you a lot too." my reply.
She suggests that we have movie night. So I take D5 to rent a movie for the night (Coraline). Ended up that W made us turn it off before it ended because she thought it was too disturbing for the girls. We put the girls to bed and went to our room to settle down. She sees me pulling out the foot lotion.
Knowing that it is for she says "Oh, thank you". "No problem", I reply
While lotioning her feet, she mentions that her hamstrings are sore from all the gardening she did this weekend. M: "Would you like me to massage them too?" W: "No, that's alright." M: "You can leave you pajama bottoms on." W: "No, I didn't mean it like that. I just figured you were tired." M: "No, I'm fine." W: "Sure, OK then."
I get the body lotion and she helps me with the pajama bottoms and lies down on her stomach. I spend probably 20 minutes on her calves and quads. OK, I am a guy and ready to go on at this point. I ask if she would like me to take the rest off. She says "No, thats OK".
I lie down next to her and continue rubbing her back. I think she fell asleep. When I stop, she opens her eyes and says "I know I love you." She puts on her pajama bottoms and gets under the covers. W: "Thank you. I had a wonderful day." M: "I did too." W: "I had a wonderful weekend" M: "They always are." W: "I know. That is why I think if I just disappeared and did nothing, I could be happy."
I think that she meant if she stopped working and never saw OM again, she would be happy. But I did not ask for clarification because I didn't want any R talk.
w: "Good night" M: "Good night"
We kiss gently on the lips again.
Monday: We wake up. She pours my coffee and we go sit outside for a while. She tells me that her MIL told her that she was sexually assaulted by a doctor during an examination when she was 21 (MIL knows nothing of W's rape). I say something that it is crazy that there are that many creeps out there that can do such things. Among other things, she says "It is men in power who think they can use it to do anything. That women are there to serve them. They use it to control women". She said that she thinks she is going to tell the girls her own story when they go to HS just so they can know what can happen. She says "that incident ruined my life". I try to say that her that her life was not "ruined" only "impacted". She says "No it has ruined my relationship with you, everything."
Later, we are standing in front of the window looking at the gardening we had completed the day before. I am behind her with my arms wrapped around her. W: "It looks so nice. Thank you for your help." M: "No problem." W: "I feel so close to you right now."
Standing in front of the car before she is about to leave for work she asks for a hug. I give her a hug. She kisses me on the cheek, I kiss her on the lips and she responds in kind. She hugs me tighter, I can feel her heart pounding. She is headed back to work where she will interact OM ("snake") for another week. She grabs my hand and holds it tightly before sliding in her car to go. Nothing was said, we both knew what it was all about.
Me-40 W-41 Together-10 M-8 S-6 S-4 Bomb 5/08 Bomb 10/08 Thought things were better, was wrong. Still living together Wife doesn't think she will ever love me again.
What I mean is, good for you. I hope you have many more weekends like this, it sounds like you are on your way to a good result.
Me-40 W-41 Together-10 M-8 S-6 S-4 Bomb 5/08 Bomb 10/08 Thought things were better, was wrong. Still living together Wife doesn't think she will ever love me again.
Wow. I had just caught up on everything. Obviously, if you read my whole thread; my wife does not need to be "taken". And although, I believe this can be done in a respectful way. Way too many men take this mentallity to the extreme. I know way too many women's lives have been devastated by men's behavior that believe this perverted ideal that "Women want it."
And now something that happened 20 years ago is not only impacting my W's life; but it is impacting mine and our 2 lovely daughter's lives. One man's desire for a few seconds of pleasure has far reaching effects. However, I am sure a beast like that would not care.
Now robx. I am not comparing you to my wife's rapist. But had you know her entire life's story, I think you would agree with me that "being taken" is definitely not what she needs.
By the way, although sometimes my massages do become sexual; I never assume it. I give W foot massages for a couple of reasons: 1. because she will often put on the foot lotion herself anyway. 2. It is a good time to have a conversation.
What I mean is, good for you. I hope you have many more weekends like this, it sounds like you are on your way to a good result.
Hi Orich.
My marriage is a roller-coaster. It was just last Thursday she said that we needed to seperate and I am sure she will see OM this week. This is no picnic.
Tristan, I would add about the foot massage, I would often brush my w's hair in bed before we went to sleep. Sometimes it would lead to sex, but not always. I was fine with the times it didn't. For one thing, it felt good for her, and I love her, so why not do something unselfish for her? Also, it was time we were alone together completely apart from anything else. We would either have conversations or even just watch TV. We were together. Finally, for me it was gratifying because even if we didn't have sex afterwards, it was a half hour or so of time I had just touching her hair and her body. Two things which I miss very much now. The times it led to sex were fantastic, of course. But the times it didn't were still great because it was just time for us.
Me-40 W-41 Together-10 M-8 S-6 S-4 Bomb 5/08 Bomb 10/08 Thought things were better, was wrong. Still living together Wife doesn't think she will ever love me again.
