are you & your wife still physically intimate with each other?
Woman don't always like to initiate the physical part (truth be told I bet you it's the majority of women that want their men to take the initiative/lead instead of asking if it's ok, some women want to be "taken", it shows how secure you are with yourself.)
Regardless of rejection, even if she had said no possibly if you had made your advances to her, in the end, not making the attempt at all guaranteed that you rejected yourself first before she even had a chance. If this isn't clear let me know and I'll explain further.
Next time you get in this situation and you want to be sexual with your wife, don't let the fear of her rejection stop you from trying altogether - when you do that, you guarantee 100% that nothing will happen.
Rejection may suck but sometimes I think guys shoot ourselves in the foot but assuming that rejection is a given, it's not always the case and you end up missing out on an opportunity to be close to your wife.
breakaway, you take the word "taken" in the wrong context, I'm not saying anything like force her to do something against her will and if you understood that, give your head a shake, no one would ever condone that.
All I said was that maybe his wife wanted him to initiate the physical connection between them, she doesn't want to have to paint the picture for him to let him know when it's ok, she wants him to be secure & brave enough to at least try.
My advice is not the worst advice, trust me, I'm sure it's closer to the truth than you yourself would admit.
And if we don't want to admit that physical affairs are happening and that women & men are cheating on their respective spouses with other people and having sex, the kind of sex that is initiated without the fear of rejection, the kind of sex which is lustful & passionate & physical vs. the "same old boring routine", than you're not admitting what is actually happening in real life.
What is actually "worse advice" is lying to yourself.
I have chosen to be honest, direct and say what's on my mind and it's been working for me.
Along these lines, I wonder if it is a good or bad thing to initiate in my sitch. It has been several months. We have no physical contact and no signs even subtle from W that she wants to. There is no OM. My IC says I should bring up the sex issue with her. Co-workers say just jump in and initiate. Would initiation be considered pursuing? I thought it might.
Me-40 W-41 Together-10 M-8 S-6 S-4 Bomb 5/08 Bomb 10/08 Thought things were better, was wrong. Still living together Wife doesn't think she will ever love me again.
breakaway, you take the word "taken" in the wrong context, I'm not saying anything like force her to do something against her will and if you understood that, give your head a shake, no one would ever condone that.
uh, yeah, some people do...anyway it's an attitude...that I've noticed in other posts of yours and I've only read a few. If you were giving my husband advice, we'd already be divorced. It is precisely him softening towards me and not acting out this ridiculous version of "masculinity" you're talking about that's keeping me around.
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All I said was that maybe his wife wanted him to initiate the physical connection between them, she doesn't want to have to paint the picture for him to let him know when it's ok, she wants him to be secure & brave enough to at least try.
You have no idea what she thinks. You don't possibly have enough information to know if that's true. And again, how does it show a man's "security" to initiate sex? Do you know how many insecure men thinks that's what makes them a man?
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My advice is not the worst advice, trust me, I'm sure it's closer to the truth than you yourself would admit.
LOL. Oh, thank you, big masculine man for telling addled little me what the truth is about what women "really want." I can't admit I want a man to take me. Is that it? Thanks.
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And if we don't want to admit that physical affairs are happening and that women & men are cheating on their respective spouses with other people and having sex, the kind of sex that is initiated without the fear of rejection, the kind of sex which is lustful & passionate & physical vs. the "same old boring routine", than you're not admitting what is actually happening in real life.
Hmmm....well, been there, done that, got a scarlet letter t-shirt in real life. I'd say you have tunnel vision about what is going on in affairs.
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What is actually "worse advice" is lying to yourself.
Nothing about the previous conversations anyone is having with tristan has to do with people lying to themselves. You just seem bent on spreading some kind of uber-male philosophy of yours.
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I have chosen to be honest, direct and say what's on my mind and it's been working for me.
What is your current situation Orich, don't point me to a link to your thread because I can't read 20 pages to find out the current story. Where are you at right now? What is her real excuse for not loving you ever again? When I say "real excuse", I mean tell me what she says is the reason and what you believe to be the real reason because I'm sure the 2 of them are probably different.
In the end, the quickest way between point A to point B is a straight line.
Tell her you would like to have sex with her.
Tell her you think about it 90 seconds of every minute... literally.
Do you miss touching her, kissing her, looking at her, being physically intimate with her?
Tell her you miss those things and you would like to do those things with her. Tell her you know how she currently feels. If she isn't ready for physical intimacy/sex, offer her something else. Tell you would enjoy giving her a back massage or a full body massage with some massage oil, you enjoy touching her skin and she would probably enjoy a nice massage, it would relieve some of her stress and you would get alot of satisfaction from being able to touch her.
If she says something about her thinking that she may never love you like that again, tell her you understand but you would still enjoy giving her a massage and you won't expect her to fall in love with you if you give her a massage.
Thinking about this and everything else won't get you there.
You have to turn that thought into action.
You have to speak up.
Don't be an a$$, don't argue, don't get mad.
Here is something that will give you a leg up on all of this.
Expect to be rejected. Expect it.
Don't quit after the first time.
Ask her again, not within 5min. but try again the next day.
Tell you understand that it would only be physical and you can live with that.
Start with offering the foot rubs & back massages, ask her what she likes when she eventually gives in and says that she'll let you do it one time. When it does happen that she finally gives and says yes to the back massage or foot rub or full body massage, ask her what she likes? Is there a specific area in her upper back that is sore and needs some attention? How about her hips, or just above the small of her back? How about her calve muscles and her heals, all of these areas receive alot of stress and benefit from rubbing & massage, offer it to her. Don't expect sex in return, if she asks what you will get out of doing this for her, tell her you're doing it because you enjoy touching her skin.
Point A to Point B, straight line, don't lie, don't waver, be honest and direct to the point.
Pursuing is one thing, but when you're massaging her, giving her a backrub/footrub or having sex with her, you are receiving something out of this as well, you are receiving personal satisfaction as well, it's ok to be honest about this, you're a human being, lying about this is just lying and there is already enough of that in this world.
Don't whine if she rejects your offer, offer it to her again, the next day, a few days after that, the next week, each time you are rejected, just smile because you knew you were expecting the rejection and since you were expecting it, you can't take it personally.
Expect rejection and plan for how you will react accordingly, this will communicate that you are different from the previous person she knew. Just smile and say "OK, maybe another time".
When the rejection finally stops and you get a response like "I could use a foot rub or a back rub", be prepared, smile, get your skin lotion or massage oil and enjoy yourself.
Work on getting your foot in the door so to speak, don't succumb after the first rejection - don't pout and don't get angry - you're a man, a strong masculine man and you are prepared to handle this type of response without turning into a little kid because of it, expect the rejection at first and many more until she finally accepts your act of good service and enjoy it while she enjoys it.
And offer it again after she accepts the first time, make it something to look forward to, don't talk alot either during these times.
I find dimming the lights and lighting some candles while making sure the ambient room temperature during massages makes them more enjoyable.
This would NEVER have worked for me. When I felt that the R was suffering, that everything was falling apart, the LAST thing I wanted was sex and physical contact. It felt crass and oblivious and self-centered on H's part given the reality of where we were at.
Women (if we are going to generalize here) want to feel emotionally secure and connected and then physically connected...
Unless you have full confidence in yourself (which no one posting their sitches on here has) I would not touch that one. Maybe that is what you miss Robx, you can't just tell a guy who is flailing to do this stuff. You are taking a valid position but applying it to a context that it just usually does not fit into.
Keep pushing the physical and the W feels more like an object, less understood and de-valued.
Oh, and women know what a foot rub offer means...
That is just my opinion, don't want to argue about it.
You have no idea what she thinks. You don't possibly have enough information to know if that's true. And again, how does it show a man's "security" to initiate sex? Do you know how many insecure men thinks that's what makes them a man?
And since you're not her, you actually don't know what she thinks either. Neither of us do, I can admit to that and since I know you're not a mind reader, I can confidently say that you don't know what she thinks either.
As for initiating sex, being afraid to initiate sex is being insecure with yourself, being afraid to initiate sex because you're afraid your wife will reject you is being insecure.
I also know that being insecure around a woman usually isn't going to win you any points with her. Secure men are confident men and that's attractive. Insecure men are clingy men that seek approval and don't take alot of initiative in their lives and I know that isn't attractive.
So how am I doing so far? Not that your opinion matters but I'm just curious as to how you're going to blow up over this response. ;-)
Yes, don't lie about it...make sure she knows that you're secretly planning to manipulate her into giving in with techniques you learned from real men on the internet.
Me-40 W-41 Together-10 M-8 S-6 S-4 Bomb 5/08 Bomb 10/08 Thought things were better, was wrong. Still living together Wife doesn't think she will ever love me again.
