Well...

[SDFoundGirl]

My H has repeatedly said that he's a "good person" and "he'd do anything" if someone needed him to. Once he said he'd 'lay down his life for a stranger'. Maybe it's mean of me, but the last time he said something along those lines I said "yeah, you say you'd do that, but you won't commit to someone you say you love. Interesting."

Not mean. Honest. I think being lovingly honest is the only path that allows us to feel okay and not have yet another mess to clean up in the end. I think sometimes it's wise to postpone things as I did about the OW when we first went to MC. It wasn't a deal breaker for me, and my goal at the time was to work on the issues in my M that had made OW possible. However, where I went wrong was, when we reached the point where we started having the discussion about OW, I wasn't completely honest about my feelings about her because I was afraid. I've come a long way since then, and it would have been better to have dealt with it honestly instead of having to clean up that mess now.

So I say good for you for saying that to your H. It's true, and it's not snarky. I think sometimes our spouses need us to shine that spotlight of truth on things. Just the truth, not the truth AND you're a big giant poopy-head because of it.

I hope your H is doing what he said he would (ie "proving it") and I hope that in this process, you'll be able to get some of what you want. Right now, it sounds like the perfect storm may be brewing. I don't have advice, just observing that it sounds like you are on the cusp of being a WAS yourself.

So far, so good. He's either gotten better at lying, or he's actually doing what he promised. It was BFUG's (my new nickname for her...Big Fugly) birthday yesterday, no emails, no calls, nothing but spending time with me and kissing my butt. I just don't know if he's capable of looking like the "bad guy" to people outside of our M...he always tried to make me that person and I think I believed him for a long time. In IC after the bomb, I figured out that was bull, and that he was playing out his "good boy" family role in our M. I was playing the "bad child" role. I think that's why my strategy to save the M worked...I DB'd my heart out, and I made sure I did nothing he could use as an excuse to blame me...thus making him have to be the bad guy if he chose to leave.

But now he has to put on this bad guy hat because he thinks she never knew how he felt about her (um...boys are just clueless, we girls always know) and now he's just going to blow her off and end a friendship. Poor, victimized BFUG, and he will be the cause of someone else's pain. My pain is acceptable, but others' pain is not. And really, I mean every other person. I didn't know that's what he thought being married meant, that I had to buy into his control drama and be the martyr he loves to be as well.

Yes, I am on the cusp of being a WAS, but a very different type of WAS. I just believe that you put your S first and try to respect what they ask for. I also believe there's only room for 2 in the R, and I'm not willing to share. I honestly don't think he has feelings for her anymore, but that's not the point. The point is we don't put ourselves in positions that are uncomfortable to our S or set up the potential for it to happen again.

SD

[Trixi]

Hey SD-

Yes, I am on the cusp of being a WAS, but a very different type of WAS. I just believe that you put your S first and try to respect what they ask for. I also believe there's only room for 2 in the R, and I'm not willing to share. I honestly don't think he has feelings for her anymore, but that's not the point. The point is we don't put ourselves in positions that are uncomfortable to our S or set up the potential for it to happen again.

Totally agree with you there.

I think what I was picking up on, though, was more that he isn't "passionate" (just "safe") and you are questioning the wisdom in being in the marriage. (As far as fulfillment goes.)
Hence, the perfect storm.
hmmm....I'll rephrase a little. I mean, it's possible to be a WAS because the other spouse is continuing the contact with the OP. (A la "Tough Love".)
But in your case, it's not just that he continued contact, but *also* that you are wanting a more passionate, exciting life. That's what has me raising my eyebrows. I worry that resentment will be creeping in, regardless of whether or not he continues contact, because the REAL deal is that you need a more intimate/passionate connection.

Like I said before, just an observation. And I am just now hopping into your thread (ie, I haven't read your whole story), so I acknowledge I could be all wrong.

[SDFoundGirl]

PS...I have an interesting pdf you may want to read that may apply in parts to H. FIB

I'm interested. You can find my name @ the same place you're @.

Yes, trust is what's really lost, and I don't know that you can ever get it back completely. My uncle cheated on my aunt nearly 30-years ago (moved out, in love, etc.), and he STILL maintains transparency. When I was initially going through all of this, my aunt told me that there are still times she gets the kick in the stomach and triggers that bring it all back to her. They have a really tight marriage now, but I wonder if it's worth it to her, beyond her Christian beliefs about marriage, to spend her life revisiting that pain.

The jury is still out for me. It really doesn't help to have the MLC stuff swirling all around me...I feel truly insane some times.

SD

[SDFoundGirl]

I worry that resentment will be creeping in, regardless of whether or not he continues contact, because the REAL deal is that you need a more intimate/passionate connection.

Like I said before, just an observation. And I am just now hopping into your thread (ie, I haven't read your whole story), so I acknowledge I could be all wrong.

I don't think you are, really, and I'm thankful you put it out there as clearly as you did. I guess I've been on the "right" side of this issue for so long that it's easy to slip into resentment instead of trying to make things better.

It's also true that *I* really don't *want* to try anymore. Everything fell on my shoulders when H started this, and it's still up to me to tend to the M. I feel like I'm doing a dang good job taking care of my own crazy MLC stuff (after supporting HIS and him making me to blame for everything), and I am just exhausted.

Everything in me just wants to scream "Do Over!" like little kids playing kickball, which is the MLC stuff talking...I know this. But on top of having to manage that, I have to battle H's contact with the whore and find some way to overcome my distrust so I can have a closer connection?

I just don't have the strength or desire. I want H to step up and carry the load for a while. I'm tired, and I have done my part. I have been truthful, I have asked for what I want and need, and H just does whatever he wants and reaffirms my belief that I shouldn't trust him.

I have to take care of myself first now.

SD

[faithisbelieving]

Yeah...what do you do when you order 'tonight's special': the almond crusted mahi mahi...only to be told by the waiter that they're all out and you have to settle for the baked tilapia.

What is a marriage?

Why are we married?

Where does fear or codependency come in?

LL tank being filled or dipped into?

These are a set of difficult questions we must ask ourselves and FIND the answers lest we either languish forever in an unfulfilling relationship or miss the opportunity to maneuver our old one into something better.

Personally, this forum gives everyone the correct idea in the beginning to try and change and save the M. However, there is this pervasive attempt to peruade everyone that the longer you stay, a miraculous change will occur and they come back loving us anew.

(COUGH)

Yes, trust is what's really lost, and I don't know that you can ever get it back completely.

You might as well leave the keystone out of that brick arch. Ya know...I guess I can sorta understand the drunken one night stand, but, CHOOSING to continue to see someone whilst married is a different thing.

I agree, above, SD..that is sounds like H is going through motions right now. WHAT...does he say and do INTIMATELY to tell you that this is done...that it's over....that he wants a new start with you? Actions DO speak louder than words.

I still loved my wife when I filed for divorce against her. I just made a decision that I could not live with distrust, infidelity and lying. The pain of leaving..losing my house and 50% of the time with my kids...seemed less than the heart pain of never knowing where my W was or who she was with. It was too emotionally exhausting (not that D has been easier).

SD...no one can tell you what to do..or predict what will happen to your H.

What do YOU want???? If what they say is true..that...WE are in charge of our OWN happiness....what would make you happy?

Again, my only advice is, as long as there is no active infidelity going on and things are workable, there is no rush to make a decision...but..this is going on now almost 3 years, right?

FIB

[d1adsl5a]

My wife dropped the bomb on me in May of 09. Not sure if there is an affair or not at this point. I want to believe that 98% there wasn't one. There was at least an emotional affair. Wife said ILYBNILWU. Says I have controlled her our whole marriage. I am willing to do everything I can to save the marriage. I too have tried the all or nothings without success. The one thing I could not tollerate is if I new 100% that she was with another man and not remorseful about what she has done. When the day is done, it is about respect for you, respect for your vows, respect for family(not sure if you have kids). My wife has detached and I am trying to do that so I quite writing letters and trying to reason with her about destroying our family, me, marriage, etc.. I guess what I am trying to say is if he cheated and he is not remorseful, you must go. As a guy, he has an ugly soul if he would do that to you. I just don't understand how one person can hurt another person and have it not bother them. Good luck with the boundary setting. I know I haven't helped much. But you are a good person and you deserve respect.

[SDFoundGirl]

I think I really got through to H this time. He has respected my boundary...one call from her while he was doing a job directly related to her oversight, and that's all.

I don't think things have been this good between us since...well, maybe never. We have both learned a whole lot. H has begun to ask for what he wants and needs, which is a HUGE positive change. He used to hold it in, get angry that I wasn't a mind reader, and then when the bomb was dropped I had this giant list of transgressions. So this is a good thing.

Energetically things have shifted between us. H has some sort of surprise cooked up for our anniversary this week that he's enjoying as much as a little boy at Christmas, and he's planned a mystery trip for my birthday. I have no idea where we're going, just the dates I have to be available. My H loves to do things like this, and it had been gone for a while.

I've done better at taking charge of my happiness...it's easy to forget that's my own responsibility. Whether H talks to the ho or not doesn't impact my happiness (it shouldn't). Instead, that's just a business matter in my mind...like sorry, you've broken the terms of the contract. I just can't fall into the thinking that H is the one who is in charge of making me happy.

It's going to be okay.

SD

[faithisbelieving]

Dramatic change for you. The advice is simple: go forward with your eyes open. FIB

[SDFoundGirl]

Eyes wide open. I lost my innocence in this process. Not sure that's a bad thing....

[faithisbelieving]

It isn't SD. Morals, people, community ethics...have all changed. Not sure anyone can be trusted anymore in a sense. All we can do is....keep our eyes open and feet on the ground.

Stay strong. Don't settle for anything less than what a marriage should be. Hugs.

FIB