I've been reading posts here for a while, but haven't posted anything.
My situation is like SO many others. One day last October (over 9 mos now) I came home to a big hug & kiss at the door after work. The next day I got the speech.
We decided to work on it. Before long, she said we were fine. Together forever. Six weeks later...she said "it was all an act." Devistated again.
We went to counseling a few times. She was so walled off though that she was just going through the motions. Anger and resentment turned into late nights out, heavy drinking and immersing herself into her girlfriend's life. (she really took on the entire life of her girlfriend..friends, family, style of dress, speech patterns...it is weird!)
Lots of me fighting, begging, complaining that she could invest so much in the girlfriend, but nothing in our family. But eventually I started to back off. We'd start to get better...then worse. There's no consistency to the pattern. She's in my bed, calling me at work, telling me she loves me then BAM! Moved back in the other room, ring is off, says it's not getting better, I've realized I've NEVER been in love with you and that ... and this is my favorite "I finally know my path to happiness, and this marriage is keeping me from it."
Just so you know. This is a girl that has always claimed (and still claims when we're talking about other people) to have strong family values. "Marriage is important. Family is important. People need to work through the bad times," she has said. Just not when it comes to our marriage. Now it's "why should I have to stay if I'm not happy here?" We all know that listing the reasons why doesn't always help...I listed them for her anyway.
We had out 10 year anniversary in June. We were on an up. She was telling me she loved me. Kissing me when I got home from work again. We planned a trip. Talked a little about the future. When she opened the anniversary band that I got her though it all changed. We haven't been the same since. She said "I don't feel like I should feel getting a beautiful gift like this from her husband." (She adopted the "it's not meant to be" attitude and totally checked out again)
It's been months of no emotion at all. She feels nothing. She finally started IC and determined that she is codependent. She has "no identity." (totally poo IMHO) It's too late. She loves the changes that I have made, but still claims to feel nothing.
New twist this week: She now claims to be "at peace" with everything. Not sure what that means. Now she's initiating comversation (I used to initiate all conversations, but started LRT about 2 1/2 weeks ago). She made a family dinner last night. Huh? What the he!!? This is the girl who excluded me from her B'day party two weeks ago. The party where all of the other people brought their spouse and she went stag, sans wedding ring.
Ain't life grand?
Me: 35 W: 31 S:9 M: 10 years Together 13 MySitch - Ups & Downs She moved out the day before Thanksgiving 2009, over 13 months post-bomb.
Wow, we must be cousins based on our screen names.
First, sorry you find yourself here, buyou will find a great deal of help and support here. It has (and still does) get me through some rough patches.
Our situations (and many others' too) are similar.
Second, everything you have described about your W is pretty much the walk away spouse (WAS) script. As hard as it is, you have to understand your W is not herself, or at least the person you married, right now. As crazy as it sounds, it is the situation, not you, that is mostly at issue here. She perceives that your M is what is holding her back.
Have you read either Divorce Remedy (DR) or Divorce Busting (DB)? It sounds like you have, but if not, read one of them.
Can you swing counseling? I have never been to a counselor before my sitch, and it has helped me a great deal.
The most important thing you can do right now is to give her space. Lots of space. As far as pursuing, stop any and all of that. And understand, it is HER pecrception of what you are doing that counts, not reality.
Can you tell us more about your situation (sitch), especially any warning signs leading up to the speech? Did you guys fight much before or have disagreemnts over fundamental issues - $$$ or child rearing? Does your W work? What was your W's childhood like?
Also, the girlfriend your W has been hanging with, what is her sitch? Single? Had similar experiences as your W?
Sorry about the near name hijack. It was unintentional. To be honest, my brain works so strangely anymore that I couldn't tell you for sure if I had even seen your name or not.
As for the counseling, I have been going a little. It took months to see that she had some legitimate complaints. I figured she was the one with the problem, not me.
A lot of painful soul searching later I have seen a lot of room for improvement in myself. I didn't think any off my stuff was 'deal breaking' though. As you said...it's her perception that counts. I've learned a lot about that.
She has started going to a new therapist...mostly to hear that she is validated for leaving. (she has been feeling a lot of guilt). I went with her to the last appt. (wife was a robot...emotionally shut down)
W's mom has always been pretty rigid. She runs W's dad like it's her job. W now talks about feeling like I control her. I am sorry she feels that way and have been really evaluating my actions. (I've been a great guy in some ways...not so much in others) I'm from an emotionally open, affectionate family. Hers is not. She says she feels smothered by my affection.
Me: 35 W: 31 S:9 M: 10 years Together 13 MySitch - Ups & Downs She moved out the day before Thanksgiving 2009, over 13 months post-bomb.
Wife came up while I was typing so I stopped my post.
Just to finish up, her friend is married, close to the same age, and has 2 kids. She is pro marriage and thinks my wife is going crazy. The friend's husband is a workaholic though so I think she kind of likes my wife hanging out with her so much. The friend does tell W that she is creating her own problem and needs to wake up. Not sure if it's helping or not.
I have read DR and am about 1/2 way through DB.
It's nice to find others that 'get it.' My frienda and most of my family tell me to just move on. Thankfully I have a cousin (female) who has been through this. She has been an amazing source for insight and support.
Me: 35 W: 31 S:9 M: 10 years Together 13 MySitch - Ups & Downs She moved out the day before Thanksgiving 2009, over 13 months post-bomb.
Giving my all or givingitmyall, either way, it says you're both committed to going the distance.
It sucks to be in our situation, but we can all get through it. Best advice I can give you is to try to let go of the anger and resentment as fast as you can. It just gets in the way of what you need to do and the steps you need to take. And it doesn't help the situation at all. As soon as I was able to let go, make some changes, and detach and start the LRT techniques, my situation at home got much more bearable.
It's not easy, we know. Try to step back, focus, and get a grasp on how you're reacting and what techniques you need to use to work towards your goals.
Hope you know I was kidding about the name thing. I do not own the copyright.
Anyway, your sitch is familiar, and quite similar to a lot of people here. In mine, I did not do anything that standing alone justified my W wanting to leave. Looking back, I can see that I wore her down with a lot of negativity (I wasn't happy with me for a while). I wasn't a bad husband. I did not cheat, I remebered all the right dates, I spent time with the kids. So, I understand your point.
As far as your W's friend, I am sure you are staying out of that. It is a positive that your W's friend is pro-M, especially if your W has not pushed her away. My W did push away friends who did not validate her decision to leave. In the end, though, your W will have to sort through her issues, and no one can do that for her.
The best thinkg you can do right now is act like a friend of hers. If you are like me, every fiber of your being will scream out that that is wrong. I', not saying walk around and kiss her a$$. Far from it. What I'm suggesting is that you keep making your changes (for you, not her), be consistent, and maintain a positive mental attitude (PMA). GAL'ing right now is very important. All of these things will make you feel better about you, which will make you more attractive to your W - understand that this is NOT the reason you are doing this. If you are doing this to win back your W, it WON'T work - you will not be able to maintain the work, and she will see right through it.
Come here to vent. You will be up and down. Unfortunately, this will take time. You will feel like time is your enemy, but I can assure you, it is your friend. A friend you may not want or even like, but an ally nonetheless.
Do not show any negative emotions around your W (boundary issues excepted). If you need to let out some emotion, do it away from her.
Just sit back, live your life as best you can, and watch. Make note of the little positive changes in your W.
One more thing. You may know this already, but DO NOT EVER tell your W about DR or DB. Those are for you and you alone. If she finds them, she will think your changes were nothing more than a ploy to trick her into staying.
I have spoken to the W's friend only a couple of times (about W and our R) in the past 9 months. Only when I have gone to pick up S when he is over playing with her kids. She doesn't push W too much in fear of pushing her away.
I had been having a hard time GAL, since W was coming around more often for a while. We kept doing things as a family. Over the past month though it has become easier. I think W is noticing too. She seems to feel left out when S and I are going out to the park, hanging with the neighbors, or hitting a ballgame. GAL has been good for me too.
It's SOOO hard to be a friend with her right now. She has turned into such a different person. I completely understand that I need to do better than my best here though. **note to self - remember, the ultimate goal is to save M and family ** This fits right into the stuff that I need to work on with myself too. I never really understood how to be the listener that she has wanted me to be. Listening and validating without trying to fix and give feedback seems to be a problem for a lot of us guys. I had no clue it was such an issue with W prior to this.
I'll head over today and catch up on your sitch. I'll add you to my prayer list (something else that is new for me)
Me: 35 W: 31 S:9 M: 10 years Together 13 MySitch - Ups & Downs She moved out the day before Thanksgiving 2009, over 13 months post-bomb.
I had been having a hard time GAL, since W was coming around more often for a while. We kept doing things as a family. Over the past month though it has become easier. I think W is noticing too. She seems to feel left out when S and I are going out to the park, hanging with the neighbors, or hitting a ballgame. GAL has been good for me too.
It's SOOO hard to be a friend with her right now. She has turned into such a different person. I completely understand that I need to do better than my best here though. **note to self - remember, the ultimate goal is to save M and family ** This fits right into the stuff that I need to work on with myself too. I never really understood how to be the listener that she has wanted me to be. Listening and validating without trying to fix and give feedback seems to be a problem for a lot of us guys. I had no clue it was such an issue with W prior to this.
I'm in the same position. Two bits of advice. Make sure you don't inadvertently put your son between the two of you. Not easy I know. My wife has been so fixated on gettin her own life (withdrawing)she is now surprised that our son has noticed her frequent absences from us. Go figure! Also, dont forget to try to do things for yourself without your son. It's easy top try to be superdad while you're trying to save your marriage. I'm also working on this myself, but I think it's a lot more beneficial for you and more noticable for your wife when some of what you do is, well, selfish - just for you.
I also wasn't a good listener. I realized that in my desire to be right, or heard, or make my point, I often would dismiss my wifes point or feelings. I'm learning.
Sounds like you're heding in the right direction. Hang in there.
Thanks for the suggestions and perspective WGU. It's almost like the have a script!
I have gone through some of GIMA's postings now too. I started laughing when I read about the books. I HATE the books! It's tough to think that while I'm reading how to be a better man and save our family, W is reading how to cut the strings and how glorious life after D is. I understand that she feels the M is holding her back and D is the "only path to happiness," but it sucks to see. I am consistantly amazed (still after 9 months) how people can get to a point where they see their wedding vows, their family, marriage, children, etc. as esentially disposable.
I hate the "If it feels good do it" mentality that these books sell. Where is the "If it's worth having, it's worth working for" attitude? Here's a link to a quick article that I found while thinking of this attitude the other day.
Another question: I saw stuff about the book "Walk Out Woman." Is it something that you could share with your wife? I know that my wife would like better understanding of shy she's feeling what she's feeling, to be validated, and to know that she's not crazy or alone and I thought it may help. OTOH, that may just be the "fixer" coming out in me.
Me: 35 W: 31 S:9 M: 10 years Together 13 MySitch - Ups & Downs She moved out the day before Thanksgiving 2009, over 13 months post-bomb.
Another question: I saw stuff about the book "Walk Out Woman." Is it something that you could share with your wife? I know that my wife would like better understanding of shy she's feeling what she's feeling, to be validated, and to know that she's not crazy or alone and I thought it may help. OTOH, that may just be the "fixer" coming out in me.
I would not recommend this. Where she likely is, she is not going to listen to ANY advice from you. Right or wrong, that is where she is. Unless she asks for help (not likely), I would not give her advice or any books.
Right now, the best thing you can do is give her space and change you to make you a better you. That is the the only way you will make an impression on her.
Funny you saw the thing about my W and her books. I haven't checked in "her" room in quite a while (and don't plan to cuz I don't care), but I believe those books have been gone for a while. At the time, they proviked a lot of anger and hurt in me, and I asked myself the same question you noted. Unfortunately, you have to do all the heavy lifting right now. But, it will get better.
I will give you some suggestions (worth what you paid for them) on books I found helpful. The Five Love Languages really made an impact on me. I read the Walk Out Woman, and I cannot say I learned a lot - most of the WAW perspective on this board was what seemed to be contained in that one.
I am reading one right now called Learned Optimism by Martin Seligman. One of my big changes has been turning from a pessimist to an optimist. Really helps with the PMA.
I just ordered Light Her Fire, and I'll let you know how that one goes.
