K4D Rising #4

[volleydog]

{quote]"On top of that, alcohol does not have power over me anymore. It used to. It no longer does. It does not control me. I can avoid it with ease now."[/quote}

Do you know WHY it did in the first place? THAT is what AA and C are for...you went to ONE meeting there are probably 10 different meetings a day in your area minimum. The problem I see is you seem to be wanting instant gratification which is what all addicts want they don't want to do the work...

God and prayer are great things nobody here would say they aren't but I just see you here in a few weeks not talking about this because you've moved on to the next thing you read about to get your W back. If you stick with this great, I'm happy for you and just remember while God hates D he didn't want us to get married in the first place.

[K4D]

Stuck,

I am going to church because I want to. I am taking my kids because I believe it is important for them. I am not saying that I am better than my W. You are more than quick to point out ALL of my past mistakes. How can I even say that I am better than my W? My point was not that I am better than my W. My point was that I am taking a stand for something I believe in since people were saying that I was still trying to please her. I'm saying I am doing this for me and my kids, not for her. It doesn't make me better than her. Its just what I am doing. I am not going to not go just to make her happy. I set a boundary and I am sticking to it regardless of who it pleases or who it doesn't please.

I haven't given up on schooling either. I'm just trying to fix myself right now and do what I need to be doing.

I haven't moved on from my W either. I am just staying out of the way so I don't further screw things up. I very much want her back just like the rest of you want your S's back. But the more I am involved right now, the more damage I do.

Doesn't God say to come to him with your worries, fears, anxiousness, etc? He also wants you to love him and do what he says not for something in return, but because you want to please him. At the same time, God wants to help you with the problems in your life which also requires action on your part as it has been stated on this thread many times.

I grew up in church. It just wasn't the catholic church. So it is not like I just found God or something.

Stuck, what did you have for lunch?

Kevin

[K4D]

VD,

God wanted the earth populated. His was of doing that was inventing marriage. God also said it is not good for man to be alone.

Kevin

[25yearsmlc]

To answer your questions... No. I am no longer going to AA or counseling. I have been going to a priest each Monday night. I found that looking at things from a spiritual side is much stronger and better.

The 12 step program IS A SPIRITUAL PROGRAM...did you even read the steps? They include an essential "spiritual awakening"...I've heard of people quitting AA b/c it's too religious but your reason ---let's just say it lacks authenticity. And I LOVE the judgmentalism you use on all the "losers" in your group b/c you would NEVER do anything like those horrid people.. therefore you must NOT be an alcoholic...you only lost a wife and job b/c of drinking....you didn't kill anyone, you don't live in the gutter, so you are NOT a problem drinker....Good for you. Great insight.

You know, you were supposed to find a group you were comfortable with. We all told you this several times. I went to some groups of ALL ex-cons and yes, I did go find another group but not b/c I thought they were losers but b/c I'm a L. ANd I wanted people I had more in common with and so I found a group of doctors and lawyers and teachers ALL with addiction or alcohol problems...we exist....Then I searched some more and went to 6 or 7 til I found a women's group that had more people I felt comfortable with, to take out the gender issues but your tolerance for discomfort is zero...so you quit that...what a slap. You admitted drinking was a huge reason your marriage ended and your wife called you a functioning alcoholic and YOU described yourself as a guy who'd come home and drink and not interact much with the kids and wished they were gone....Which is what functioning alcoholics do, wish others were not around so they can drink or sleep more...or play video games or ignore those they love....and though I am Catholic, I find it curious you chose the ONE church your wife HATES, to start discussions with and taking your girls to...oh the church that doesn't believe in divorce....

I am able to talk with him about stuff and he is helping me out in a few different area's. I felt like I needed spiritual guidance. The AA meeting that I went to really had a lot of screwed up people in it and it seemed like half of the conversation was F this and F that, etc. Just didn't feel like that was somewhere I should be after thinking it over.

Well we know you didn't want to shop around (so time consuming!) or take anyone's advice to find the right group. They are ALL around you! And again, Way to judge others, (super spiritual!!) and you did what ALL the resisters of 12 steps do. (This is right out of the book on addiction, that you didn't read) It's as if you think since You don't cuss, or you have an apartment, ergo, you must not have a "real" problem. What a cliche.

Do You think I felt like "those people" when I went to my first meetings? I tossed my pride at the door and listened to those who had lost more than me and realized, "There but for the Grace of God, go I"....

I was addicted to pain killers but my h did not know, and I was holding down a great job, and mothering my kids pretty well I thought, and I only went to rehab (at the time,) b/c I found out I was pregnant --(and though the painkillers don't cause birth defects, I didn't want to keep taking them and t thought out of caution I should probably do it medically supervised due to the pregnancy...well WHOAH! It was hard as hell to get off those things. When I got to the place, I listened and prayed like never before, and realized, "hey, this is a PROBLEM for real", & I LISTENED and opened my mind and heart and I thank God for my baby saving my life and my career and probably a lot more.
By the way, I had a truly spiritual awakening there, just like they discuss IN THE 12 STEPS, and THAT was the first, most important spiritual experience I ever had. That's when an active relationship with God began in my life.

Don't talk to me or others about AA or NA not being spiritual b/c it means you missed the single biggest point of the program. And it's a slap in the face of the thousands of recovering addicts/alcoholics who have God in their lives like never before. You missed out on yet another resource, that could have given you joy and insight and created true change within you, but since it was not wrapped the way you wanted it, you turned it away...gee no pattern there

On top of that, alcohol does not have power over me anymore. It used to. It no longer does. It does not control me. I can avoid it with ease now.

BS. I pray that I am wrong but I know something about this. And I do pray I'm wrong but in mho, You will relapse. In fact, I bet anything you already are drinking again, but b/c you have not yet gotten drunk again, or you are "only having a few" you think you have learned to control it. Do you know how 85% of relapses start? Like that.... You know nothing of recovery or the disease. And It shows.

I did meet with my priest again last night and that seems to be helping me. I am reading a lot and listening to sermons, etc. Just because I had a down day or 2 doesn't mean I have turned back into the old Kevin. I'm doing fine today.

CG, I know that W is seething because she detests the catholic church and has made no secret of it to me many times and she also threatened months ago to give me problems with the kids if I took them to mass. So I am not speculating on that one. I know firmly where she stands on that.

Like I said earlier,- in gest about your wife but seriously to you,- what theological research did you do to that caused you to choose Catholicism? Are you taking a Jesuit approach? Are you more of a Paulinian, how do you feel about liberation theology? Are you a pre-Vatican II Catholic, or post Vatican II? I think your choice of going to Mass IS DIRECTLY RELATED TO YOUR WIFE.

Look, who am I to judge? But as a Catholic I would love to think your choice stemmed from some deep, reflective intellectual search over time, with lots of profound reading of Augustine and Aquinas and John Paul II, along with a strong Protestant theologian, like CS Lewis, to counter balance, and of course some soulful inward searching within, prayers, to find where your beliefs truly lay --- but somehow....geez, that is not what's coming to mind....

I'm not sure what I am doing to try and impress her. My stand for the church I am going to is not to impress her. I know how much she is against it.

yeah... See above

Ok, yes, lifting weights would be to try and make myself more attractive to her. I don't see a problem there as DBing tells us to make ourselves more attractive to our S. That is just one of the ways in which I can do that. And I will get some health benefits out of it anyways.

Stuck808, whether or not I was wondering if she was interested in me is beside the point. I have no intention of taking her up on anything should she be interested in me. It is flattering if she is and the thought had crossed my mind wondering if she is. But nothing will come of it because I am not pursuing it.

Tomato, I'm glad you are getting to go to the prayer tonite with the standers. Thank you for making sure I am included in those prayers.

Everyone say what yall will. This is the path I have chosen.

THEN Why post here? At all? You just flat out told us nothing we say or tell you will change anything meaningful in your life. Sure a few phrases here and there, to help you keep from blurting out your needs again, or how to pursue her less obviously, etc, anything about getting your wife back is really the ONLY THING you have ever responded to. The rest about YOU and YOUR INTERNAL WORK has been for nothing and you just said it yourself out loud. There's nothing we can do to help you. You will do what you want and then tell us "yall can say what yall will".....and you will do what you will do. And waste so much time. Of ours! Nothing I sent to you resonates for more than an hour & Results in no change...


I am focusing on my spiritual side
so we're told...

and yes, I do still pray for my M to be restored. I'm not going to stop praying for that. I also pray that I make the changes needed for myself and my family. I pray for the standers for their M's to be restored as well as many M's on DBing. I do things with friends. I avoid situations now that could put me in a tempting situation.
I try to put my faith in God as much as possible. It doesn't mean I don't have bad days or wonder if anything will ever change.

But I really try to stick to the core things of the church the more I learn.

((Sigh)

I feel like I am finally finding the right path for me through the church and through the standers. I still need a hobby besides poker. I am working on that one. Dancing is becoming one of those hobbies. That is fun.

I fully expect to get 2X4's but that is ok. I am comfortable with my stance.

Kevin

2 x 4s??...WHY? What's the point?
And you not getting c after one visit is really odd. Guess You just come here for it? See, if you go to a c, they'll expect you to what they ask or they won't keep seeing you. You come here and then ignore us unless it seems to help you with your wife - or passing time til she comes back--you ignore us too.. Nothing about thte CG methods of thought stopping were noted by you, or the other 100 ideas you've been given about resources, most questions don't get answered if they reveal you quitting again...The stubborness is almost pathological...and thanks for telling us NOW that you are not getting C or going to any more meetings... Do you feel you have been very honest here with us? [/b]


True you have made incremental progress at a glacial speed, and you only make 90% of the same mistakes you made months ago, and once a week you talk about theology - or your wife- to a priest, so you now don't need any c? Really? Did the priest tell you that and did you show him any of the 1000s' of posts you wrote here or that were given to you? Does he KNOW YOU? If so, then Kevin, you don't need to come here either do you?

Now Some would argue you need a lot more than c. But you won't get any, so why argue it? Besides, You quit everything that makes you uncomfortable. Oh, good thing you are working on the spiritual thing.

B/c you judged the c you met ONE TIME quite critically, like you judged those at the ONE AA meeting you attended, no doubt with an open heart and mind, and sometimes you judge your wife and her family or friends the same way...

So...that's that. As you like to say "Yall do what yall will"....well, same to you kevin. You know, we deserved better from you after the months of holding your hand, and repeating ourselves til we're blue in the face, yeah, we deserved real honesty and real effort. You know, the HARD stuff Not denial, and an "arms crossed' attitude of "You can't make me!" which is how I feel you are behaving now. Just my take on it of course. And I do pray I'm wrong about you. Guess time will tell.


j-

PS I never said crying was weak. I simply asked you why you'd apologize for something about your interaction with your wife the other day. I asked if you had cried b/c I could not imagine what it was you 'd apologize for when she picked up the kids...whatever.

[volleydog]

Not really Kevin, what basically said was if you can't keep it in your pants get married...From Paul's letters to the Corinthians

1Corinthians 7

1Now for the matters you wrote about: It is good for a man not to marry.[a] 2But since there is so much immorality, each man should have his own wife, and each woman her own husband.

8Now to the unmarried and the widows I say: It is good for them to stay unmarried, as I am. 9But if they cannot control themselves, they should marry, for it is better to marry than to burn with passion.

[MrBond]

"You are more than quick to point out ALL of my past mistakes."

That's because those who do not study history are doomed to repeat it. And everyone here, not just me, have shown how you haven't changed as a whole.

"How can I even say that I am better than my W?"

See? I NEVER said that. I mentioned that you are implying it. Go back and read your own post. I said if you want to go to church for you, great, you just don't have to mention your W not liking it.

And even still, go back to how you talked about the AA meeting you went to with all the "losers" there. Tell me that's not being judgmental. That's how you're coming across and that's why I said you "sound" like you're acting better than your W.

Do you actually read anything here?

"Doesn't God say to come to him with your worries, fears, anxiousness, etc? He also wants you to love him and do what he says not for something in return, but because you want to please him. At the same time, God wants to help you with the problems in your life which also requires action on your part as it has been stated on this thread many times."

I think you need to tattoo this on your arm. You are throwing this back at me? Really? Go back to your post about how you stopped C and AA and tell me about taking action.

I don't even need to go into the 2x4's. 25mlc's post says it all.

[K4D]

VD,

I am aware of that verse also. But how else was God going to populate the world in a spiritually acceptable way other than M. But ok. Thats cool. It does say that to.

25,

I was fully expecting to get blasted when I answered those questions. More speculation on my part. I did go to 2 C visits and I guess I assumed that I didn't need AA after going to that meeting since alcohol is no longer an issue for me.

As far as Catholic goes, you couldn't be more wrong. I did not go there because of my W detesting it. I actually grew up with my mom being church of christ and my dad being a traditional catholic. You can imagine the disagreements that occured because of that while growing up. My sister is catholic. Her husband is catholic. Her husbands sister is catholic. My dad's favorite saints are St. Jerome and Padre Pio I believe was his name. I have had many catholic discussions for years with my dad and my sister and her husband and his sister. But I always blew it off. I finally started looking at what they were saying some time back and the more I looked at it the more they were starting to convince me that there really is truth to it. They were able to explain their love of the faith and where they were getting it from. I had just rejected it for so many years because of my mom taking us to Church of Christ churches. Since my W left, they have all been talking to me more and showing me more and I have been agreeing with what they have been showing me. I started going to a traditional latin mass while in Florida with my dad. I asked many questions about it. I still have much to learn.

So no, I didn't just pick the catholic church out of the blue. And it had nothing to do with my W. It has been around me all my life. I just finally decided to start paying attention to what the rest of my family was saying about it when I felt like I had no where else to turn.

I didn't say the people in AA were losers. I said they were screwed up in the meeting that I was at and yes, I felt uncomfortable there. I thought wow, if this is what these meetings are like, I'm not sure. And yes, I had much more reason to be thankful for my situation after walking out of that meeting.

I'm not above those people or better than them. I guess I just felt like somehow they were different and different circumstances than me. It was AA for alcohol and drug users.

I did not mean to offend anyone, I just fully expected to get hammered left and right once I answered. Saying that I am comfortable with my stance is simply saying that I like the direction things are going with the exception of my W not being with me. Everything else is going better.

When I said yall say what you will, it was really me just getting prepared to get totally slammed.

Kevin

[MrBond]

Oh yes and I had a very nice steak sandwich today. Thank you for asking. : )

[K4D]

Somehow I had that feeling this wasn't going to go well when I had to answer those questions. I looked at it first this morning and I was thinking "great, I am going to get so blasted for this no matter what I say". Thats why I didn't answer first thing this morning.

Kevin

[Esox]

k4d,

Wow it hurt just to read this. Man you have to make some serious changes.

How did the guy act that your wife married (you back in 97)? How does the Kevin of today act compared with the Kevin your wife fell in love with? My advice would be to act more like him.

It seems you have great difficulty being in the presence of your wife. Perhaps you should have her drop the kids off at an intermediary’s’ house and you can pick them up without seeing her. Perhaps it is time for you to go dark and remove yourself from her life totally. What you are doing isn't working. I'd get a new plan. Google Plan B along with marriage and read about it.