I agree w/Jeff as this is a great hurdle to clear. The specter of Helen has been put into the light of day. You've seen her so you can quit trying to picture her in your mind and you've also seen his reaction to her which should also put you at ease.
Hello everyone! I've been busy, packing up my house and decorating, I am moving back in with him this week and it all seems to be going well.
Yes, it was a shock to see Helen! I was shaking for half an hour afterwards! I just wish I got a good look at her, but I didnt. He was VERY depressed the next day or two, But my intuition was right.. she DID contact him Monday, at his desk, at 10 am!! He admitted he got an "abusive" phonecall from her, that she was very nasty, calling him names, after asking if it WAS me and if we were back together. She ended the call with a - I dont want anythning more to do with you or to see you ever again (cool, result!), but I havent been nervous or insecure about her anyway, Saturday was the first time they had spoken since they split.
He told me that he ended it by saying he didnt feel the same way about her and that she was very upset. Again, a MF's gf volunteered stuff about Helen, that she was a very odd girl, wierd.. not right for him, you could tell, that she had wanted to discuss her R with this gf after meeting her only once, saying it was very hard for her and not going well as her bf (now mine!) was not over his ex and still had feelings for her.
I asked bf about this and he said he hadnt discussed me with her, but it must have been her intuition as he wasnt over me. He has moaned since the phonecall "she hates me.. you know how I cant stand for people to not like me".. but he realises its understandable, she got hurt. I then told him, that everytime I meet people they tell me stuff about her without me asking and I have NEVER heard a good word said about her.. that her hating you says more about the kind of person she is than that you are a hateful person. He agreed and also that she was not a very enlightened person and that she shouted at him alot!! I said, WTF were you doing, she doesnt sound that nice, he agreed that in hindsight he realised that she wasnt.
I asked him how come it took him so long to come back to me and how come I didnt see him from Aug-Mar bar once, he said there was never any control at all from her, not at all, he just didnt know what he was doing, or who he was even.. and added as a final overriding explanation "You know, I was in hell".. I said, I DID know! I told everyone that and thats how I defended your actions and thats why everyone has been so understanding/forgiving.
He also explained that he is very slow, that it takes him a long time to think and act and "for things to perculate through" he said, you know that.. and indeed I did! He said he is wrong to go around making his mind up and making decisions all by himself "without consulting anyone", that that is wrong and he needs to be more open and honest.
He said she did live at home and was only 28 (so 10 years younger than me!).
So lastly... its extrodinary, but he has said several times, that he basically didnt know who he was. He has also blurted out that me getting ill all the time "ground me down" and that it was hard on him and as he is the way he is, he couldnt cope with it.. and he worries about him being "hard work" now, as he knows what he would be like and how he would feel if he had to spend time with someone who was depressed (it has been VERY hard on me some days). He also said that "you stopped listening to me".
So seems he left me, partly because of his depression/flip out and also, I had been getting ill on and off for 4 years and that I stopped listening to him. I do now! He said I do, too much. I even let him choose the paint colours for the house, I let him make decisions now that I would've been more vocal about years back.
Me:40! H:37 Together: 12yrs IDLY & left 11/07 ADs 03/08 OW 8/08 Reconciled 05/09 now married! my thread
Well now the elephant is out of the room, so to speak. So glad that you both are talking more. I think if I do get remarried, I will try to make a point of every couple of weeks "taking a reading" of how we are. You know use it as a time to address issues and even what one is happy about.
I am so glad things are working out for you both. Happy painting and such!
kat
Me-53(and learning!) S24, S21, D18, D17 Just keep swimming, Just keep swimming. Dory
Hey everyone, well we spoke too soon... there is trouble in paradise. The problem he has ML is now a definite one. This is REALLY worrying me (although I told him it shouldnt worry him).. this could make him close off/back off/freaked out/all of the above.. its a big deal for a guy. I'm guessing its guilt as we had the problem from when we saw Helen I think.
On top of that, we had a sort of row last night (only talking but he admitted to being 'frustrated') because I said I was scared of catching swine flu.. this opened a whole can of worms to do with me getting ill before, he said it bought the memories flooding back, that I was overreacting, that it made him fearful, alarm bells rang ...etc etc and I got very upset, but trued to hide it. I agreed it was hard on him back THEN, but that I had been well for over 2 years now and he is ill more often than me and also, I have to cope with his depression day to day (last week he had 2 days off work in bed as he was "tired"). He agreed with all of that, that he is ill way more than me now and that I am stronger now and that things ARE different.
Somewhere in this, he bought up my EA (dear god).. I calmly asked him, perhaps you still have some resentments if you are mentioning that now, 6 years later? He looked puzzled and said, yes perhaps I do, I didnt realise until I just said that then. It was hard on me, I'm a guy... etc
I pointed out that maybe he needed to exercise some more forgiveness, or 'let go' of the EA and me being ill, especially as it was 2-6 years ago and all in the past now, things had moved on and considering that he had left me for 18 months and dated someone else for 8 months since then....
So it kind of degenerated. I tried to agree and validate, but I couldnt help feeling angry and hurt. I did say, I think perhaps you could cut me some slack on the swine flu comments, I was very patient and committed and had to look after myself, I am not sure you would have been so patient for so long... He agreed and said well, no I wasnt was I (he was nearly giving up on us after 4 months seperation in 2004! So I asked him to move back in). He said but I DIDNT go anywhere, I wanted to be with you, as I do now.
He said that he feels bad he hurt her. He said this several times. He said she did shout alot.. well not shout, get frustrated at him because "I probably deserved it, I was being rubbish and she would get frustrated at me". I mentioned that noone has a good word to say about her, he shouldnt blame himself entirely for their R ending, he said "I dont want to hear that, thats not fair"...But he did add that No, it wouldnt have worked out with her anyway and that he realised that pretty early on (by November)..
I remember reading here to NEVER badmouth the OW as they will defend them and he sort of did.
All and all, not going so swimmingly and I am finding things VERY hard right now (right in eclipse season, what a suprise, not! Our whole R has been eclipse led since the day we met).
I think it was a mistake to have the above conversation, but he reacted pretty badly to my being fearful over swine flu. He kept saying he was sorry to have upset me, that HE had overreacted to my comments, but that he couldnt help how he felt. I guess I dont know what to do now, I am feeling pretty stressed by the past few days!
Go back to what works. A fight,argument,disagreement isn't and shouldn't be the end of the world. It is how we get our frustrations and worries out. It is healthy as long as it isn't a habit. You both weren't sure how to approach some feelings because they were tender spots but now it is out there.
Take a deep breath, break the issues down and go from there. You are a smart lady, you can get this back on track.
hugs, kat
Me-53(and learning!) S24, S21, D18, D17 Just keep swimming, Just keep swimming. Dory
Thanks Kat for the vote of confidence ad sticking with me! Whatever happened to you mystery man you asked me about before??
There were lots of other things said. For anyone interested in the mind of a WAS/MLCer/PAer, I will keep postign what he tells me, so here it is!
I asked him about last summer.. he looked puzzled when I said we had stayed over night 4 times. He agreed we were spending lots of time together up until the beginning of August and when I asked him why.. bf: I enjoyed spending time with you, I wanted to see you, but I was still confused and .. I was being needy and rubbish. Me: Needy? So you were using me then because you were lonely? bf: No, not using you, no, I wanted to see you, to spend time with you but I was being rubbish and still didnt know what I wanted. me: Did you still fancy me? bf: Yes, yes i did me: but you didnt even kiss me bf: Well, I was still unsure, so I thought I cant, it wouldnt have been right me: We were going for bike rides and meals out and spending upto 12 hours a day on the weekends by end of July, then 2 weeks later, you were dating Helen. You had a stark choice, a fork in the road, why did you take that choice? bf: (long pause) I just wanted our breakup to make sense.... it was something new... different..exciting, I dont know, I wasnt thikn that at the time, but in hindsight, I guess I wanted the breakup to make sense somehow and I thought that I would try that me: you said before it was her, but I guess it was both of you bf: yes, we just got closer working together, it happened quite quickly but yes, I guess it was both sides.. it was at a leaving do me: Were you happy, when you took that fork, for the first few months? bf: (long pause).. No. I thought I was, or I tried to be happy, or to make it be so that I was and then I soon realised it wasnt and thought, why am I doing this to myself? me: When did you thnk that? When you saw me in November? bf:... I dont remember, early on, certainly after I saw you and then was very unmanly and cried loads in the car that night me: So if you realised then.. how come you stayed in that situation another SIX months?? bf:.. I dont know.. I cant explain.. I'm weak, I'm a coward..I upset people all the time, thats what I do, I go around upsetting people and I dont like to upset people, plus it takes me a long time to work through things..but when I had, then it took me a long time to work up the courage to go through with ending it. But I did because I wanted to be here and thats why I am here now. me: But it worries me you have several times said that you dont like that she hates you bf: Well thats just me, my ego, I hate for people to not like me and I hurt her and I feel bad about that, I know I hurt you too, but I feel like I messed up, big time, I made a mistake, I acted badly me: Maybe you shouldnt have dived in... bf: I know, I f*cked up, I didnt think it through, it just happened me:.. or maybe you just shouldnt have stayed in the situation as long as you did bf: I know, I know and now I hurt her and I feel really bad about that me: but you said that the R wouldnt have lasted anyway, despite wanting me back? bf: No, it wouldnt have. me: so then you shouldnt feel bad for it ending, or take all the responsibility bf: But you must feel guilty and bad that you hurt your ex, when you ended it? me: No, I didnt, becuase I felt he deserved it because of the way he had acted toward me bf: well it wasnt like that then, she didnt deserve it me: But I havent heard a good word said about her, so maybe she has to take some responsibility for the breakup? bf: I dont want to hear that, thats not fair me: but I mean, maybe you shouldnt beat yourself up so much for ending it? bf: I know what you are saying, I know and you're right, but I cant help feeling bad me: Did it feel wierd, being with her.. getting on a plane with her.. bf: Yes, it all felt unnatural actually. I feel really uncomfortable talking about this and quite stressed me: Why? bf: Because I feel foolish, an idiot, I messed up, I hurt you, I feel like a prat and I hate to look foolish, to look stupid, I cant stand it me: But I dont think you are an idiot, I think it was in the context of being depressed and not making good decisions bf: No, you're right, I wasnt making good decision, but thats why I feel an idiot, I f*cked up, I got it wrong, I made a mistake, but I know we should talk about stuff and not sweep it under the carpet, but its just hard...
He then went on to say I hadnt answered questions (I did!) about my EA and he felt I had never really been honest about it..He also said he felt we were back to normal, its like before really again, just like we used to be.. only better and that I shouldnt worry and I should STOP saying sorry.
Interesting, seems not surprising he said he went into the dating Helen thing as it was something new and different and he thought that was perhaps what he ought to try, to make our break up make sense somehow. But that he soon realised he had made a big mistake. The atmosphere is still quite strained between us.
Me:40! H:37 Together: 12yrs IDLY & left 11/07 ADs 03/08 OW 8/08 Reconciled 05/09 now married! my thread
So maybe one of you will just have to do something silly to break the ice and make the tension go away.
As for me and my flirt guy, nothing much has happened. I think I told you I saw him in april. I was wanting to get rid of relationships that were weighing me down and I knew that there was something I needed to clear up with him. We talked for an hour(he was working, he winked at me twice and gave me a hug and tight squeeze. Took that as good but didn't really know why. We have e-mailed a bit but then I thought maybe if I backed off a bit he would maybe move towards me some.
That didn't appear to happen. Anway, several years ago when I was trying to get his attention, I tossed pennies at him. I have mentioned it in a few conversations over the past year. So a couple of weeks ago I sent him a bottle full of pennies with a note. The note said, "I have been trying really hard to not think about you...apparently I haven't succeeded. Hope this at least makes you smile." He sent me an e-mail thanking me and say yes it made him smile but was hard to explain to girl friend.
A bit crushing but I try to look at the positives: He is ready to date again, he opened it in front of her without having a clue what it was, so I don't think they are serious, perhaps just a date and the last came to me a few days ago..whenever he sees it, he will think of me and hopefully make him happy. He is such a Libra. I know that he doesn't see me as a fling but someone that if he got involved with, it would be something. That will take a commiment of sorts, I just don't think he is there yet. Running 4 or 5 papers takes alot and he still has his 2 kids and their activities(they are both really into sports) to consider.
I am still hopeful maybe when I shouldn't be. Everytime I try to push thoughts of him away, they come back with a vengenance. I just know I am supposed to be with him at some point. I just don't know how to explain how I know.
Sorry for the long post, but you did ask! any thoughts would be appreciated.
kat
Me-53(and learning!) S24, S21, D18, D17 Just keep swimming, Just keep swimming. Dory
any thoughts would be appreciated.