Jumping in (1st post)

[Gardener]

Don't call her! Stop doing that. She has not had time to miss you and until you can show her that you don't care if you EVER talk to her again and you don't care that SHE IS LONELY/BORED, then you will get nowhere. I think you succeeded in turning her off when you "explained" how you were trying to respect her by giving her time and space. That was your way of telling her that she could still have you regardless of how ever much time it took for her, AND SHE HEARD IT LOUD AND CLEAR.

I think I'm going to stop beating around the bush with people from now on and just start telling them to drop the rope right then and there b/c as time goes by, I am more and more convinced that that is the one thing (and many times, the ONLY thing) that works with WAS. If my H would have done that in the beginning, it certainly would have gotten my undivided attention and I certainly would have respected him a heck of a lot more and I would not have done what I did practically under his nose.

Hah!!
I'm putting this here (from confusedinpa's thread):
1)Trying to figure out how to quote from one thread into another. I did it (well it's a bit of an accomplishment for me).
2)I need to have this for ready reference. It's great.

Thanks as always, sandi2

[aliveandkicking]

Why is it so flippin' hard to drop the rope?????????

[25yearsmlc]

"Why is it so hard to drop the rope?"

FEAR...

Face it. Handle it. Live freely, without fear running your life. That's freedom. You can have it if you choose it.

I like New Hampshire's license plate's motto: LIVE FREE OR DIE... (i.e., there are worse things than death....or divorce....)
But you have to choose freedom.

Face the FEAR and HANDLE IT. No more fear based choices...they are not choices...they are daily surrenders, and retreats.

Stand up for yourself, set healthy boundaries that you believe in and enforce them. Period.

((( j )))

[SmileysPerson]

"Why is it so hard to drop the rope?"

FEAR...

Amen. If there were a more sophisticated search capability on these threads, and you searched any of L'Histoire du Smiley's Person for the term "fear" or "afraid" -- you'd hit nearly post in the first 3 or 4 threads.

Fear. Yellow freaking fear.

Even in the discussion on "extra-separation sex" fear appears. I think, in fact, it was @Gardener who suggested that seeing LBS "do well" could make it "easier" on WAS -- which is really just another way of saying "I'm afraid to do well, lest it validate WAS's decision."

You were asking about MWD writing a book on DB'ing with kids in tow, @alive. Frankly I think an extended treatment on conquering fear while DB'ing might pay bigger dividends for the community. It's part of dropping the rope, but ever so much more so. It's all bound up in the shock of the bomb, the uncertainty of the future.... ah, ye gods, it's a killer. Fear is.

[Gardener]

Cutting and pasting and adding to my must-remember sandi2's Greatest Hits (hit gardener - by proxy - over the head with WAW truisms, that is.

Hi Cabbr
I believe for a woman the worst thing a man can be is indifferent toward her. As long as you show anger or any emotion of being upset, then she know's she's still getting to you. I think that is one reason men like Puppy & Coach are successful in DBing b/c they remain calm but firm in their actions. Speaking in a soft, firm voice will do more to a female than a raised voice in anger.

Dropping the rope is the best thing a H can do with his WAW. It seems to be the very hardest thing for men here on the board to do b/c they allow their emotions to be in charge. Dropping the rope appears that you are completely disinterested in what she does or doesn't do. To her, you appear to not have any feelings about her one way or the other. That is what a woman can't stand! If anything will pull her out of her fog, I believe it is that.

However, there is one very important factor and if you don't have that factor....it won't work. That being.....you must do this for YOU and in order to have peace and be able to move forward with the idea that it could be without her in your life. Dropping the rope has to be for you.....not a ploy to get her back.

[25yearsmlc]

"Why is it so hard to drop the rope?"

FEAR...

Amen. If there were a more sophisticated search capability on these threads, and you searched any of L'Histoire du Smiley's Person for the term "fear" or "afraid" -- you'd hit nearly post in the first 3 or 4 threads.

Fear. Yellow freaking fear.

Even in the discussion on "extra-separation sex" fear appears. I think, in fact, it was @Gardener who suggested that seeing LBS "do well" could make it "easier" on WAS -- which is really just another way of saying "I'm afraid to do well, lest it validate WAS's decision."

SORRY But I think This is such crap. IT paralyzes the LBSer and rationalizes their paralysis. IT enables them to stay stuck in their victimhood and not move forward or take responsibility for their happiness. That is all that matters as the LBSer must first for themselves, move on and second, MUST MODEL FOR THEIR CHILDREN what it meams to move forward in life with grace and dignity. All of our children will be hurt someday so they need to know what it looks like to overcome and recover. If the LBSer decides that it is more important to make their WAS wrong, than to GAL and be on their own, AND that the only way to make the WAS wrong is to stay miserable, the LBSer has missed the point and blown their only "Show" on earth. This is not a dress rehearsal.

The LBSer should show that the WAS made a mistake by overcoming the devestation of the loss of the WAS, and recovering their identities and their own happiness. THIS more than anything else, makes the WAS 2nd guess their choice to leave, not pity for the pathetic spouse left behind. On the contrary, it is the opposite.

The more pathetic the LBSer acts, the more likely that the guilt (IF ANY, on the part of the WAS) will turn to pity and then contempt/resentment for the LBSer and it validates their choice to leave. This is so obviously the case in so many situations here. It becomes repulsive to the WAS to see the LBSer crying and clinging....in the eyes of the WAS, The lbser does not "deserve" to be married as they are too helpless and needy...so again, taking charge of your life is not only more appropriate and healthy for the LBSer, it is also far far more likely to attract the WAS back or find another OP of interest. A WAS is usually in a selfish phase in order to leave anyhow, so if they are being asked to give more...it is highly unlikely to regain their interest. GAL is a win win. And it's a cop out to go the other way, and another form of letting fear take over and making you irrationally cling to misery as a way of keeping the WAS ---which NEVER ever works here!! show me one case where a WAS came back and stayed with an LBSer b/c of guilt and need and the LBSer not being able to function well without the WAS....if that were the case, the WAS would not leave in the first place....[[this is not to say you should not tell the WAS at least once, that you "GET" whatever issues you need to "GET" and own and change and that you are willing to do so, and that you care deeply, love them, etc. BUT in most of these cases the WAS knows the LBSer cares...and the LBSer knows that a WAS feeling unloved is not the real issue. IF it is, fix that. There is never a need to keep clinging and it always hurts your cause. I am Absolutely convinced of this.]]

I obviously feel strongly about it and have experienced and witnessed it time and time again here. GAL works for more than one purpose and is never a bad idea. PLEASE for a moment, consider your life a novel and ask yourself this: Who is writing the novel of your life? Shouldn't it be YOU? Do you like how your novel is going? HOW will the next chapter go? How will your novel end? Will YOU write it or let someone else?
Be the author of your life. Take charge of it. Own it. It's the only one you get. Leave a legacy of recovery and responsibility for one's own happiness, for your children. IT teaches them to write their own novels too.






You were asking about MWD writing a book on DB'ing with kids in tow, @alive. Frankly I think an extended treatment on conquering fear while DB'ing might pay bigger dividends for the community. It's part of dropping the rope, but ever so much more so. It's all bound up in the shock of the bomb, the uncertainty of the future.... ah, ye gods, it's a killer. Fear is.

[Gardener]

[quote=SmileysPerson]

I think, in fact, it was @Gardener who suggested that seeing LBS "do well" could make it "easier" on WAS -- which is really just another way of saying "I'm afraid to do well, lest it validate WAS's decision."

No, this wasn't me. And there also seems to be some "cross-threading" recently on my thread. No problem, mind you, just I'm unsure how it started.

I read it all, though. Always something to learn.

[Gardener]

Oh, and by the way, 25yearsmic,

SORRY But I think This is such crap. IT paralyzes the LBSer and rationalizes their paralysis. IT enables them to stay stuck in their victimhood and not move forward or take responsibility for their happiness. That is all that matters as the LBSer must first for themselves, move on and second, MUST MODEL FOR THEIR CHILDREN what it meams to move forward in life with grace and dignity. All of our children will be hurt someday so they need to know what it looks like to overcome and recover. If the LBSer decides that it is more important to make their WAS wrong, than to GAL and be on their own, AND that the only way to make the WAS wrong is to stay miserable, the LBSer has missed the point and blown their only "Show" on earth. This is not a dress rehearsal.

The LBSer should show that the WAS made a mistake by overcoming the devestation of the loss of the WAS, and recovering their identities and their own happiness. THIS more than anything else, makes the WAS 2nd guess their choice to leave, not pity for the pathetic spouse left behind. On the contrary, it is the opposite.

The more pathetic the LBSer acts, the more likely that the guilt (IF ANY, on the part of the WAS) will turn to pity and then contempt/resentment for the LBSer and it validates their choice to leave. This is so obviously the case in so many situations here. It becomes repulsive to the WAS to see the LBSer crying and clinging....in the eyes of the WAS, The lbser does not "deserve" to be married as they are too helpless and needy...so again, taking charge of your life is not only more appropriate and healthy for the LBSer, it is also far far more likely to attract the WAS back or find another OP of interest. A WAS is usually in a selfish phase in order to leave anyhow, so if they are being asked to give more...it is highly unlikely to regain their interest. GAL is a win win. And it's a cop out to go the other way, and another form of letting fear take over and making you irrationally cling to misery as a way of keeping the WAS ---which NEVER ever works here!! show me one case where a WAS came back and stayed with an LBSer b/c of guilt and need and the LBSer not being able to function well without the WAS....if that were the case, the WAS would not leave in the first place....[[this is not to say you should not tell the WAS at least once, that you "GET" whatever issues you need to "GET" and own and change and that you are willing to do so, and that you care deeply, love them, etc. BUT in most of these cases the WAS knows the LBSer cares...and the LBSer knows that a WAS feeling unloved is not the real issue. IF it is, fix that. There is never a need to keep clinging and it always hurts your cause. I am Absolutely convinced of this.]]

I obviously feel strongly about it and have experienced and witnessed it time and time again here. GAL works for more than one purpose and is never a bad idea. PLEASE for a moment, consider your life a novel and ask yourself this: Who is writing the novel of your life? Shouldn't it be YOU? Do you like how your novel is going? HOW will the next chapter go? How will your novel end? Will YOU write it or let someone else?
Be the author of your life. Take charge of it. Own it. It's the only one you get. Leave a legacy of recovery and responsibility for one's own happiness, for your children. IT teaches them to write their own novels too.

This great. I agree (even if it is partially in reference to my being misquoted by SP - I know I can't keep all the threads and sitches I'm following straight in my mind sometimes).

[givingitmyall]

Great post!!!!

[Gardener]

Journaling. So as I reflect on the last couple of weeks, DBing - and especially Last Resort Techniques have produced:

Greater peace in my mind (key)
Apparent efforts by my wife to keep me on the phone, spend a little time with me, spend even more time with me, her agreement to hold off D talk for another month. Her connecting emotionally if only by VM to The Note. Overall, a number of small changes of her slightly Moving Toward instead of Moving Away. And, even so, I'm feeling a bit "Ok. No Big Deal." about it.
A stronger sense of control, self determination.
More time working on me for me.

And my one non-LRT, reaching out invitation(to fireworks) to my wife produced:
My not really wanting to be with her that night because she went back behind the wall big time.
Impromptu 180ing (mingling, chatting w/crowd, diving in instead of sitting and spectating), actually leaving her behind to do this and not caring at all that I did. ("OK. No Big Deal, here, either.")

I'm going back to LRT, backing off, going (mostly) dark, back to my self-talk of "Face it, Gardener, your marriage has been over for months now. Your wife has been gone in every way a wife or person can be gone for months now. You have no marriage; you have no wife. Now, heal. Work. Grow."
For several weeks I've been saying that I'm a better person all around when I tell myself that. Of course I am. Because saying that, living that, is the detachment that I thought was eluding me. That self-talk and the actions that follow it are my detachment.
It feels better. Gets some results from my wife, true, but that's just a by-product, not the intent, and either way: No Big Deal."

Got that, Gardener?
Yes, I do, Gardener.
Thank me very much.