Well, he picked me up - no hug this time - wasn't expecting one though. Would have been nice. Phone was dead so I couldn't do the text trick. Had about 15 min of conversation during a 45 min car ride home. Whatever!
Me 36, Him 33 M 11yrs, T 15yrs S 8, D 7 ILYBINILWY - 1/09 H moves out 10/09 D to be final SOON I HOPE!
Hopeful, don't worry about lulls in the conversation. People don't have to fill the quiet gaps with words. In fact, if you are just "trying" to fill in the gaps, it could be a irratation to him. Men don't like women to keep a constant flow of talk. If it gets too quiet, maybe he will talk.
About the MC.....in MHO, there are some good ones out there but they are hard to find. By that I mean so many are not pro-marriage, or they are not experienced enough to give the correct guidance. Again, IMHO, I don't know that C both of you together in the same session is a good idea. I would think it would be more produtive to do it separately. It often leads to arguments in the session with the MC and the example of the C pointing out your changes. If it were me, I would put my money into talking to one of the DR coaches instead of that MC. If you are not happy with that one, you may have to try another. I know many men are hard to get them to go to MC, so you may have to go alone. That's just my opinion.
Take care, Sandi
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
I am talking to DB coach as well - love her! MC is totally pro-marriage. My problem is that she obviously does not know how to address WAS. She would try to get him to understand WHY I was crying. Told him that I was grieving, etc. We met individually & together. She never advised me not to talk about R outside of MC. During individual NEVER gave me the advice offered in DR. Had to stumble across that on my own.
I'm scared to broach the subject of switching bc H has rapport PLUS will think I'm being CONTROLLING again. He will think - oh what, this one hasn't been able to talk some sense into me, so you think another one will?
MC says she needs both of us together or H will tell her things like - he & I haven't interacted...she said she needs me for a reality check to be able to say - yes we have. We have spent 20 hours together this week. Do you think I should try to see if H will talk to DB coach? I wonder what DB coach would talk about???
Me 36, Him 33 M 11yrs, T 15yrs S 8, D 7 ILYBINILWY - 1/09 H moves out 10/09 D to be final SOON I HOPE!
Funny thing is, after about 15 minutes of silence (well me singing along to songs - what a chipper & upbeat person I am LOL), he started telling me about a house in our neighborhood that went under contract. So I was happy that he initiated some conversation.
After we were home for 15 minutes, he got the brilliant idea of going fishing. I told him to catch us some dinner to which he laughed. Secretly thinking it was interesting that he had to leave so soon after I just got home, but felt better when he had to call me for a jump bc the battery in his truck had died. He'd been listening to the radio w/the fog lights while he was at the pond. Glad to know he was where he said he was going...and I didn't even have to snoop!
Me 36, Him 33 M 11yrs, T 15yrs S 8, D 7 ILYBINILWY - 1/09 H moves out 10/09 D to be final SOON I HOPE!
After we were home for 15 minutes, he got the brilliant idea of going fishing. I told him to catch us some dinner to which he laughed. Secretly thinking it was interesting that he had to leave so soon after I just got home, but felt better when he had to call me for a jump bc the battery in his truck had died. He'd been listening to the radio w/the fog lights while he was at the pond. Glad to know he was where he said he was going...and I didn't even have to snoop!
LOL. Isn't it funny to be the first person that they call when they need to be rescued?
Me - 30, H - 32 T - 10, M - 6, D - 1 DD#1 - 4, DD#2 - 2 on/off OW 4/09 - sometime Summer 2010 (Told me about OW 4/10) Separated 6/11/09, divorced 8/4/10, trying again 9/2011
Mach1 sent me this list which could also be incorporated into the list you send out. Just wanted to throw it out there bc it did help me:
When you criticize, you're working at improving your mate.
When you complain to your lover, you're working at improving them.
When you argue, you're working at improving them.
When you try to reason with them.
When you tell them how much you love them.
Both when you're reasoning and when you're telling them how much you love them, you are trying to change them. You are working at changing them. And it's that working at changing them, that is the only problem.
Proof? You want proof?
Stop all of that, and watch the relationship get better.
Stop all of that working. Allow and accept, one hundred percent, whatever your mate thinks, feels, or does is perfectly okay.
It's perfectly okay.
And watch them improve themselves.
Their negative feelings towards you will weaken rapidly, because their negative feeling needs something in you to fight with. And when you sincerely see what's on their side, when you sincerely agree with them, and when you lovingly and sincerely go one hundred percent totally, instantly, and happily your mate's way, when you do that there's nothing for their negative feeling to build on.
You have put the white flag up.
You've thrown your gun down.
That forces them to do the same thing. They cannot shoot you when you have no gun. When you're not defending yourself, THEY want to defend you.
It's not normal to not defend yourself, but it is healthy.
Agree with them.
Do not disagree at all.
It's not to your advantage. ....Her negative or his negative attitudes towards you are being supported by you communicating what you want.
Every time you say to them, "But, I love you," you are saying, "but I want something different than what you want. You want to pull away, but I want you to come closer. I don't really care what you want. It's what I want that's important."
Lots of times men tell their wives, "I've changed. I've changed. Let's get back together. I've changed."
I tell the husbands that "Every time you say, 'I've changed,' you're communicating to her that you have not changed."
"Really? Why is that? How is that? I don't understand that."
"Of course, you don't understand. But what's your motivation? Why are you telling him or her how you've changed? What's your purpose? Isn't it to get your way?"
"Yeah, I want her back."
"That's your way. It's not her way, right now. She said she may consider it later, maybe, but not right now. And every time you say, 'I've changed,' you're saying, 'Give me my way! Give me my way! Give me my way! What I want is more important than what you want. I don't give a hoot what you want."
And subconsciously, she says, "He hasn't changed. He's still the neurotic, selfish, pressuring guy he always was. There's no way I'm going to go back to him, or feel positive to him as long as he is this way."
Me 36, Him 33 M 11yrs, T 15yrs S 8, D 7 ILYBINILWY - 1/09 H moves out 10/09 D to be final SOON I HOPE!
I was always the big talker in our M, but over the years I have found out that it isn't necessary to always have a steady stream of conversation.
Glad you called a DB Coach. Why don't you just let your H go to the MC and you stick with the Coach? I think maybe the MC means well, but she doesn't know about DBing and your H doesn't need to know your tools you are getting through the DB Coach. What do you think he would say if you told him you thought it would be better to go separetly to counselors or that maybe not the same one?
I don't agree with what she's having you discuss. I would not want to talk about that in front of my H either.
BTW, I liked your advice on LFH's thread.
Take care, Sandi
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
MC: So how have things been around the house on a day to day basis?
Me: We have had some good times - Father's Day was nice, we went to a BBQ for S7's bball league together, over to MIL's for dinner, then I went out of town for a week.
H: yes, there were some nice times, but we don't have many interactions.
Me: That's true we don't have much time together lately. I have been focusing on growth w/in myself right now & feeling great about it. I think Mr. HVA is able to grow from all of this too and that makes me really happy.
MC: How was being out of town for the week?
Me: It was so great. It was like getting back to my roots. As you get older, your life becomes more structured & rigid. It was just good to remember the authentic "me" who was so fun-loving.
MC: HVA, you said before you were making changes based on what Mr. HVA has said - has anything else come to light that you may be working on?
Me: I am focusing on growth in areas that I feel I want to develop partially based on what Mr. HVA has said, but there are many other things I am working on too just because I want to.
MC: Have you shared these things w/Mr. HVA?
Me: No, and I don't care to. I plan for people to SEE what I am doing, not tell them about them.
MC: Mr. HVA, you always say HVA makes you feel guilty about doing things. Has she been doing this?
H: No, but I still don't feel anything for HVA.
MC: Well, sometimes feelings take awhile to catch up with the changes. Are you always waiting for the other shoe to drop, like when is HVA going to go back to her old ways.
H: No, I believe she has made real changes & will not go back. I just don't feel like I love her. She & the kids had been gone for a week & I had lots of time to think about things & sometimes I wonder if we wouldn't just be happier if we split up & went our separate ways.
Me: I am not worried about splitting up & finding someone else. Believe me, I get hit on ALL the time, I'm still young & I'm not financially strapped to H...but there are still no other 2 perfect people in this world to raise our children, we would screw ourselves financially & most of all - I love him.
H: It just feels like we're not even married anymore. It's like we're just co parents.
Me: Well that probably has to do w/the fact that we don't spend any alone time together anymore & we barely do anything as a family. There isn't all that much to talk about anymore. We have alot in common being that we've been together almost 14 yrs & I've always cherished our friendship.
MC: Well, Mr. HVA it sounds like your feelings have really changed. When you first came in you didn't think there was ANY way Mrs. HVA could change. You said people can't change. Now you are saying you believe she's made lasting changes.
H: Yes that's true.
MC: Well should we schedule our next appt. for 2-3 weeks out.
H: How about next week?????
Why in 1 week if you don't even want to work on M???????????? This is all I can remember...lots of other stuff...
Me 36, Him 33 M 11yrs, T 15yrs S 8, D 7 ILYBINILWY - 1/09 H moves out 10/09 D to be final SOON I HOPE!
Wow... I think MC gave mr. HVA something to think about by bringing up that he didn't think you could change...
It is irritating to think that they're just sitting around waiting for feelings to come back without doing anything to bring the feelings about.
Me - 30, H - 32 T - 10, M - 6, D - 1 DD#1 - 4, DD#2 - 2 on/off OW 4/09 - sometime Summer 2010 (Told me about OW 4/10) Separated 6/11/09, divorced 8/4/10, trying again 9/2011
