Jumping in (1st post)

[BigJohn]

Good job Gardener. Keep heading in the direction you are going. The DBing will get easier with time.

Just a quick comment regarding the mediation talk. I don't know what the law is in Connecticut, but I'm over hear in California and I gotta tell you, if my sitch does go the distance to the big D, I'm not agreeable to mediation. Nor to temporary separation which to me is a mutual agreement to have an open marriage. (Heck, we can't afford it now anyways.) In my mind, both mediation and temporary separation are chicken $**t ways of letting the WAS off the hook to ease into a D. Both options sure look good to my potential WAW. I say no way Jose. If she wants a D so bad, we are going to go through the whole painful and eye opening process. It's not that I am trying to be spiteful so much as to open W's eyes to it all (Reality) and accept some accountability for it all (more Reality). D is nothing like what W is envisioning in her fantasy right now and if we have to spend some money to get this through her head- and reconsider what she is doing to be with OM-then so be it. Just a thought.

[Gardener]

BigJohn,

i hear ya. Especially the REALITY part. From what I know, here in the Nutmeg State the Mediator represents whichever spouse contacted/contracted him/her which makes no sense to me (New Oxford American Dictionary:"From Late Latin, mediatus: 'placed in the middle'"). Besides, I simply refuse. She's gonna have to serve me with papers when it comes to that as my approach to final D step will be as Mahatma Gardener: "I wont resist, nor will I assist."

Very fortunately, my sitch has no OM, no animosity, no anger (I was initially a little pissed, though at the out-of-the-blue bomb .)

Just sadness, futility and an apparent reluctance on her part to really discuss R in depth. Withered and died of (resentful) neglect. You'd think a gardener would know better...

Big John, where's you're sitch?
How's it going over at WAW Forum? I haven't spent much time there, lately...gotta check in.

[SmileysPerson]

FYI to @Big John and to you Gardener:

Mediation is not "easier" on WAS than litigation. You get a rep, s/he gets a rep. The difference between collaborative divorce and mediation is that in collaborative divorce you both make all the agreements and the lawyers simply do the mumbo-jumbo, but there's no advisory relationships; in mediation, THE mediator (who is the one in the middle), along with each person's legal representative, can advise you as to what the law is (mediators are often retired judges).

If a collaborative process collapses, especially in California, everyone who was a party to it has to resign by law, and nothing that was agreed-to or said in the meetings can be introduced into the subsequent litigation -- the whole thing goes back to Square 1. If a mediation collapses, it's usually only over one or two issues, and those can be litigated with the court accepting all of the outcomes of the mediation and rendering a judgment on whatever issues are "irreconcilable."

Mediation isn't "pro-Walkaway." The advantage is that it is less contentious and cheaper -- the more you and Spouse can agree to, the less the lawyers have to do, and the less time the mediator spends mediating, which = less money.

Go to litigation and every fax, e-mail, and phone call is a cost. Every meeting, filing, status conference is a cost. At my friend's law firm, they charge clients $1 per minute on the phone bill, along with the billing rate of the attorney. He had a 1/2-hour conversation with his lawyer the other day, which cost him $30 for the phone call and $175 for the lawyer. There have been about 50 phone calls so far. Do the math.

And remember -- if you litigate, YOU pay your own guy's fees except in very rare cases.

So take it for what it's worth, but I just had this conversation yesterday.

[Faith2010]

Gardener -

Sounds like you did WONDERFUL last night.

Thanks for the encouragement on my post. I'm glad to hear you are getting away for the weekend too. For me, it's a much needed break!

[Gardener]

Sp,
thanks for the info. I don't think Mediation is easy or pro-walkaway S. Matter of fact, I don't know much about it at all (except what you just shared).
All I know is that my response when W brought it up bought me (W gave me) a gift of some time last night. And I still refuse to actively participate in initiating the big D, however and whenever the time comes.

Thanks again.

[BigJohn]

BigJohn,

i hear ya. Especially the REALITY part. From what I know, here in the Nutmeg State the Mediator represents whichever spouse contacted/contracted him/her which makes no sense to me (New Oxford American Dictionary:"From Late Latin, mediatus: 'placed in the middle'"). Besides, I simply refuse. She's gonna have to serve me with papers when it comes to that as my approach to final D step will be as Mahatma Gardener: "I wont resist, nor will I assist."

Very fortunately, my sitch has no OM, no animosity, no anger (I was initially a little pissed, though at the out-of-the-blue bomb .)

Just sadness, futility and an apparent reluctance on her part to really discuss R in depth. Withered and died of (resentful) neglect. You'd think a gardener would know better...

Big John, where's you're sitch?
How's it going over at WAW Forum? I haven't spent much time there, lately...gotta check in.

Gardener,

I'm with you, I have told my W very clearly that I will not aid and abet in any effort by her to D. Everybody in her life that matters is telling her to give her H and kids a chance and drop the OM. She acknowledges that in her head, it is the right thing to do, but she just doesn't want to. So if we wind up going down the path to D, it's gonna be ALL on her. I've accepted 100% accountability for my 50% of the relationship issues and I'm diligently working on improving myself in those and other areas. If we go to D, she will have to accept 100% accountability for it along with all of the repercussions.

I've got similar neglected her needs issues with my W as well and can understand how that can deaden her feelings for me aside from the current EA. But with patience, time, hard work along with some other things those feelings can come back. But she has to have the courage and willingness to work with me and she doesn't right now.

The WAW forum is great, Sandi2 is the best and has given me some really good feedback. I haven't figured out how to create a link to my original post as "My Sitch". My first post is still available and contains a summary of my sitch if your interested.

[Gardener]

Thanks, John. Got caught up on you.
I've been doing a revamp after a coupla days of examining my detaching, working-on-me-for-me ( or lack thereof). An important step for me that I was play-acting at but not doing. Am working on it. As you no doubt know, it's not like a light switch.

BTW, I saw reference to depression in one or two of your posts. I was diagnosed last year. Went on meds. Then researched (I'm nutrition-oriented in most things). I found the book, The Ultra Mind Solution and recommend it very highly. Did wonders and I'm on my way off the meds now. Book explains neurotransmiters. Gives simple quizzes to identify which of yours may be sub-par and why. Answer is diet, but more importantly specific amino acid supplements to feed specific neurotransmitters. Can't recommend enough.

[The Wifey]

Sp,
thanks for the info. I don't think Mediation is easy or pro-walkaway S. Matter of fact, I don't know much about it at all (except what you just shared).
All I know is that my response when W brought it up bought me (W gave me) a gift of some time last night. And I still refuse to actively participate in initiating the big D, however and whenever the time comes.

Thanks again.

Hi Gardener. I've taken a somewhat similar stance when it comes to D. I will do nothing to make it easy. I don't want S and I don't want D.

I love H, will do anything to work on M, but file legal papers of any kind and everything changes.

H wanted the S, which is a 1 year period in NY, then either party could file for a no-fault D. He claimed he wanted to try and rebuild a R. I told him he was taking an awful big risk if that was what he wanted, because after a year I might just be the one to file. (Deer in the headlights look.)

Also, S means you have to come up with a S agreement. I don't agree. I don't have to agree. I don't have to agree to anything. Said as sweet as pie with honey dripping off of it.

My advice, get out there and go fishing. You will be away and she will have no idea where. And catching a few lunkers will put you in the best mood, I promise.

[Gardener]

Reading Thinker's thread about ann'y. Good ideas re: flowers, card wording, roadtrip package etc.

I used to always give flowers to my wife
1) Anniversary,
2) For no reason, and
3) Whenever I picked her up at the airport. It always seemed right, like one should be greeted with flowers upon returning from a trip: You're HOME!! Plus, I felt as special and lucky being the only man at arrivals holding a bouquet as she felt being the only woman at the gate getting flowers.

Last time, though, was last month at the airport. I saw her roll her eyes when she saw them. Asked me to hold them on the way to the car and within an hour thereafter (I knew it, I felt it coming based on her reaction to the flowers) dropped the D bomb.
Yep, Gardener's done with flowers for now.

So, our Anniversaries are tomorrow (17th Wedding) and Sunday (18th of when we met). Since we had our longest, most comfortable, time together Thursday in a long time and I wasn't sure what, how, or if I should acknowledge, I opted for a small, simple Thank You card. Blank inside where I wrote,

"Wishing you warm memories this weekend. Always, Gardener"

Then...then...I did either a great DB or a Horrible DB:I slipped a separate sheet of note paper in the card on which I wrote:

W,
While I did not want this path, it has proven to be one
of reflection, hard work, and growth.
I realize I had become more of a boy than a man over time
I am a changing man, now
And I'm...grateful to you for this.

Always,
Gardener

Ouch! Ouch! Wrong thing to do! Wrooong thing to do! Mayday! Mayday! Wince. Wince. Aaack! Obsess. Obsess.

Breathe. Breathe. Just breathe.
The right thing to do.
The truth.

I remember thinking, saying throw me a bone here!, Give me some hope! in my pleading days. Since we rarely spend time together (her choice:"Just leave me alone.") and she probably doesn't see changes, thought I'd throw her a bone (lousy term, actually)...Gardener felt he should offer her a flower of truth and acknowledgement (sappy?)

Truth. Happy Anniversaries, Friend.

So, now as that envelope continues snailmailing to her apartment for delivery today, opening and reading tomorrow (she'll probably wait til the actual date to open it), with these wonderful once life-affirming, love-proclaiming two very special dates approaching, Gardener is going to do what any man would do.

Gonna hide out in the mountains for two days.

See ya Sunday, guys.

[Gardener]

Thanks, wifey.

And I am outta here in about 30 minutes. The Adirondacks are a'callin (see my latest post on my sitch)...hope I did/wrote the right thing (I did the right thing for me, at least).Would love to know what you think.

Headin' to the mountains and I'm even leaving all my parentheses home, too. So there.