WAW - Very confused and devastated - pt 10

[confusedinpa]

CIPA,

Sorry to hear about the ending of your Father's Day. With all due respect to your older couple friends, I think the soulmate thing is a load of BS. Anyone, any marriage can work if people work on it.

The reason why second M might seem to work better is because they gloss over alot of the issues they had before. We all know that. But oh well, that's why DR warned us about "well-meaning" friends.

You're still talking to her WAYYY too much. you've got to cut back on that. I guess when I was S, it was so much easier because my W never called. Period. She still doesn't when she's not at home.

Do I miss it? Hell ya. But I look at the fact that she's home now and I try to work on that. You haven't had that detachment happen yet.

Work on that first. Good luck on the job hunt.

Oh yeah, and I made it for 72 hours without posting.

Congrats on staying forum free for 72 hours. I took it in slices of 24 hours - can't remember all the stuff that's goes on past that so if I don't journal here, I won't remember it.

I know we seem to be talking a lot lately. I think between her worrying I'm going to slip into a depression and do something stupid about my job loss and the fact that I'm watching the kids more often now (instead of school/camp), we are seeing each other more. During those times, I try to be the best CIPA I can be.

I never call her to chit chat and when she calls me, I try to keep it short and be the one to end the call.

This morning at 6:15 AM, she called to ask if I heard if there was anything going on near her apt as she's heard a lot of sirens and helicopters going by. I told her I didn't but would turn on the news. At 7:00 AM she asked if I heard anything. I said that the only thing on the news was the DC Train crash. When she dropped my 7 year old off at home, I asked how was traffic and if she had seen/heard anything. She said no, and chit chatted for a couple of minutes before she asked if I could hug her to crack her back. I did but it wouldn't crack. So then she asked if she laid on the floor if I could massage/press it as it was really bothering her. I did and then when I gave her a hug to crack her back, it cracked. I joked "Was it good for you?" and she just smiled and said "Thanks".

When she got in the car to drive away, she did look back and waved bye when she saw me.

So goes this friendly dance. I just hope it doesn't stop as just friends......

[sandi2]

I got behind and finally had to skip over some pages b/c I've been reading too much and getting a bad headache. Anyway, what I wanted to tell you is this: as you know, I've been M a long time. My H and I have been through many bad experiences. Just some of that was him not having a job...on more than one occassion. Everytime this happened, I would worry and get scared, etc., except for the last time.....that time I felt I had grown enough and had learned that God was going to take care of us as long as He had a plan for us here on Earth! Don't mean to sound as if I am making something serious sound simple, but it depends on "faith" and if you have it and "Who" you have faith in. Our faith was in God and it was Him we trusted to help us find the work for my H. Yes, it was a test but I think we did better that last time than we did the first time he was without a job. It can be a growing experience or it can break you. Our country is in scary times, but my parents went through the great depression when they were kids and I heard my grandparents talk about it......not something I would want to live through for sure. What I'm trying to say (in a not so good of a way) is that you are going to be okay. Please know that. You will have to search hard but you will find the job for you. Might be that you will have to settle for something "less" than what you wanted...for a period of time.....but it will be okay. If I did not believe that 100% I would not tell you. I can't promise that your M will be fine b/c your W has some serious issues. One being that she is a selfish b*thch!! To a man, his job is part of "who" is is and he bases a lot of his self-esteem on his work. It's too bad that she is too dumb and self-centered to realize that. It's time for you to go into self survival mode and stop worrying about her. She will drive you nuts if you continue to listen to that negative crushing talk.

One more thing.....about the 7 year old. Couples today talk way too much in front of their children. I can't imagine being 7 years old and worried that I would not have a place to live or how we would make it the next day. He is worried that mommy isn't coming home! That is heartbreaking. You may not have a job, sweetie, but you can offer your children security just by giving them your physcial presence and love. Reassuring them that they will be taken care of and both parents love them. That's all kids really want, to know they have both their parents and are loved.

Talk to you later,
Sandi

[MrBond]

I think the thing is that you have to break out of the friend mode. You start showing her confidence and it'll attract her back. Right now you said that she was "worried" that you might slip into depression. HELLO?! You've outgrown that right?

From what you've learned here and in DR, there should be nothing that you should be depressed about. You are happy in your abilities and confident in yourself and your efforts.

I think you're definitely still giving off that needy vibe. She's already friendly with you, now's the time to show off your confident side especially in the face of the layoff. You don't want her to feel sorry for you or worried about you. You are the one who is going to survive because you've been to hell and back. Show her that side when you meet her face to face, but GAL to build yourself back up.

You may not realize it, but maybe when you leave, you have a hang dog expression on your face that she catches. Change that asap. Put on your warrior face and show that you can do what it takes to get the job done because you've got the tools and talent to do so.

[confusedinpa]

One more thing.....about the 7 year old. Couples today talk way too much in front of their children. I can't imagine being 7 years old and worried that I would not have a place to live or how we would make it the next day. He is worried that mommy isn't coming home! That is heartbreaking. You may not have a job, sweetie, but you can offer your children security just by giving them your physcial presence and love. Reassuring them that they will be taken care of and both parents love them. That's all kids really want, to know they have both their parents and are loved.

Sandi,

Thank you so much for your support and encouragement in sharing what you and your family have gone through. This point in my life is a real trial to my charachter and faith, but I know that HE will not give me any challenge that HE has not prepared me for.

I do not have a lot of optimism in my marriage, but I still believe that it can be saved, but not without me being the man that I need to be.

I guess the silver lining in this cloud is that I am now spending more time with my boys that I have in years. I am doing all that I can to show them both that I love them and will always take care of them. My boys know that I will always provide a home for them - while it may not be the house that we have now, but even if it's just one room, we will make it home.

Ever since my cousin shared her insight of her greatest pain as a child when her parents divorced was being scared for her parents, I have tried to be VERY aware of what my boys (particularly my 7 year old) is feeling, saying and most importantly hearing and seeing. I know you have told me that as well.

This is part of doing the work for me, I need to make sure that I am the man that I want my boys to become because I know that they are watching me all the time. Whether or not my wife comes back is a secondary item as I will always be their dad. In my posts, it may seem like I focus on her alot, but much of it is because of my boys. I know the best for them is not to have to endure a seperation/divorce. I know that I can survive and thrive regardless of the outcome. I need to make sure my boys do as well.

So I need to continue to raise the bar and move my life forward. I need to live in the present and look forward to the future. The regrets of the past is the forgiveness I need to give myself. While I'm still working on that, it is getting better every day by choosing to forgive myself. I really appreciated that you shared your own story and pain in going through that as well. It is a real inspiration for me.

Thanks again for dropping by my situation again. I know you haven't been feeling well as well as being overwhelmed by request for sharing your insight and wisdom. I am glad that you are feeling better and hope that you stay that way.

Take care

[confusedinpa]

Dude.....keep the fight going. She's COMPLETELY falling apart. In terms of doing things with her and the kids....I say do it. But maybe cut back the amount of time you spend together as a family. Also remember as people give you advice on how to handle this situation....they don't live with the day to day and the def. won't live with the outcome. So basically, I would ignore them but in a sweet I know you care about me kind of way.
I know with the job situation this might be harder, but you need to get out more when you don't have the kids. You need to let the kids know that when you don't have them you aren't just sitting at home and no, it's not so they can go back and tell mommy, it's so they know you aren't home moping and sad. It will make them, esp. the 7 year old feel better to know, Daddy is ok and having a nice time when he is alone.
I think it's time she know that you can and will go on with your life without her. You aren't the one having break downs right now. You are the stronger one and you are in just as much control over this as she is.
And by the way....open your club. That sounds like an amazing idea. I hope you do it.

Stillloveshim,

I hope you are right that she isn't as resolved to the divorce as I sense/feel from her. I really feel like we're at a point where she and I can be friends, but she doesn't see it going any further than that.

The retired couple that I talk to know that I don't necessarily agree/buy into everything that they say. While they stand by their thoughts/opinions, the do openly recognize that I am where I am as far as what I am ready to accept/do emotional and mentally. They are good enough friends to offer their thoughts/opinions and not be offended or hurt when I do not agree with it. I always welcome their perspective as it makes me think/challenge myself in my situation.

That is a good suggestion about getting out when I don't have the kids. I really hadn't done it in the last 10 days as I have had the kids most of those days (my wife had been sick). I had two nites without the kids (Sun and Mon). I did go see my friends on Sun nite because I was a wreck. My 7 year old knows I went out as he saw that I had the top up on my Camaro. He asked why I had it up and I told him that I went to see some friends when he and his brother went to visit mommy's apt.

He knows that I go out when their not there as a couple of times that they called to say goodnite, I would be out and they would ask where I was at. I used to tell him that I was sad and miss him and his brother when they would visit mommy's apt. I think your suggestion is a good one, so today, I started saying that I missed them both when they were visiting mommy's place (I stopped saying I was sad).

Thanks for your support and encouragement.

[confusedinpa]

I think the thing is that you have to break out of the friend mode. You start showing her confidence and it'll attract her back. Right now you said that she was "worried" that you might slip into depression. HELLO?! You've outgrown that right?

From what you've learned here and in DR, there should be nothing that you should be depressed about. You are happy in your abilities and confident in yourself and your efforts.

You are absolutely right about the depression thing. I think she sees/believes that this job situation really hasn't fazed me. She knows I am pissed and think that it s*cks. Whenever she ask me about how it's going, I'm always confident, upbeat and optimistic. It may be tougher to carry that on if it drags out more than 3 months, but I'll cross that bridge when I get there.

I think you're definitely still giving off that needy vibe. She's already friendly with you, now's the time to show off your confident side especially in the face of the layoff. You don't want her to feel sorry for you or worried about you. You are the one who is going to survive because you've been to hell and back. Show her that side when you meet her face to face, but GAL to build yourself back up.

You may not realize it, but maybe when you leave, you have a hang dog expression on your face that she catches. Change that asap. Put on your warrior face and show that you can do what it takes to get the job done because you've got the tools and talent to do so.

That's a really good point on the "hang dog expression". I have to be very careful/aware of what I feel/express as she drives away. It's been really tough to get a life over the past 10 days as I've had the kids most of those nites (except for Sun nite when I saw the retired couple and Mon nite).

Right now with my job situation, I will likely get the boys on Tues nite through Sun morning. I suspect that since she will only have them 2 nites (Sun and Mon) that she may ask for Sat nite as well as start alternating Fri nites so she has them 50% of the time again. We had to go off the original schedule as we had to cut back on day care/camp to reduce cost. If she does ask, it will make it easier for me to get a life with my buddies as they usually ask/want to go out on Fri or Sat nite.

Thanks for the "catch" on the "hang dog express". I have a feeling I've been doing exactly that.

[confusedinpa]

Some more journaling.

I had my 7 year old today again. It was nice to have some more one on one time with him. She called a couple of times for some tactical stuff and asked to talk to him once. I did call her once to ask her if she or her mom can watch the boys for a couple of hours in the afternoon so I can go meet a recruiter.

We did meet for dinner tonite. I got there with my 7 year old first. Since it was such a nice nite, we got a table outside. I knew that was something she had always prefered and it was something that I wanted to do since it's the first nite in almost a week that it wasn't raining. When she got there, we ordered a couple of beers and when we finished those we got a pitcher.

We had a good time during dinner just laughing/joking around. Her back was really bothering her so she asked me to give her a hug to crack her back before dinner. I did, but it didn't crack this time. I then told her to sit down and I massaged her back a little to try and loosen it up before I tried to crack it again. This time a cracked a little bit, but she was still in pain (she said it hurt to try and take a deep breath).

We continued to laugh and joke. One time it was sexual, where I poured her a beer and she joked about the amount of foam saying "Hey, I'm suppose to give head, not get it" We had joked sexually a couple of times during the baseball game, where I passed her a twizzler and teased her tongue with it before putting it in her mouth. Then she played with it with her tongue some what.

Another time, when she was complaing about her feet hurting as well, I was massaging her feet and she playfully nestled it in my lap with a smile.

We had gotten done with dinner but we stayed to finish our pitcher of beer. Our boys played on the deck with a couple of other kids from another table (it wasn't very crowded so it worked out well to have room for the kids to play). We continued just chatting away and I talked to her more about my club/bar/resturant idea. She seemed interested and excited about it. This was a topic that was clearly that I was passionate and confident about so hopefully she sensed/saw it as well.

The only slip up I had was when she was talking about having a jazz nite as that was something that she was looking to find (a local jazz club/bar). I offered that we could get her mom to watch the kids as I knew where there was a good one. She quietly declined and I quickly shifted gears to a more upbeat topic.

When it was time to leave, we walked to our cars. I stayed upbeat and positive as I put the boys in my truck as she walked to her car. She came over to the car to give the boys hugs and kisses good bye. Then she asked me to hug her again try and crack her back again. I did and it cracked slightly. I let her go and said "Have a good nite and I hope your back feels better"

I'm not sure if she noticed but the boys didn't cry that she wasn't coming with us nor the fact that they were coming home. I'm sure it bugs her a little bit, particularly from her comment the other nite of knowing that she's going to be viewed as the bad guy by the boys.

No call or text from her tonite, but it really didn't bother me. I wished that she did but it's not eating away at me like it had in the past when she doesn't call/text.

So I think I'm firming up in the friends department and know I can't rush it, but really want to move beyond friends. The fact that she's living in an apartment while I've lost my job is a real drain on our finances.

[MrBond]

I think you really need to not see her as often IMHO.

You set yourself up for failure every time you do that. When I was physically separated, we would both go to see our kids at swim class. This was during my time with them. After swimming, my oldest D would beg to see if my W could join us for lunch. Sometimes I agreed, most of the time I told her 'no' because we had other plans (even if we didn't).

I saw my W would look sad during the times that I said that, but I had to do it to set things straight. That if this is what she wanted, this is the way it was going to be. Kids on my time, then I decide if she comes or not. I had to get some kind of control back in my life.

You're the same way. You've got to get your balls out of her court (so to speak) and control the situation. She's going to accuse you of alot of things, but they are empty threats. This is what she wanted. Why should she be the one to control you?

For you, I think you need to physically detach in order to emotionally detach. The less you see her the better. But again, the times that you do see her, make yourself look the best. But you've got to start with the detaching first before you can even begin to really DB.

[Stronger]

Hi Confused
It sounds like a great evening. And you handled all of it well. Just keep being this guy and I think you are going to knock it out of the park.
And it is sad the boys had no reaction to her not coming home with them. And it can't be helped....she is the bad guy in this.

[confusedinpa]

You're the same way. You've got to get your balls out of her court (so to speak) and control the situation. She's going to accuse you of alot of things, but they are empty threats. This is what she wanted. Why should she be the one to control you?

For you, I think you need to physically detach in order to emotionally detach. The less you see her the better. But again, the times that you do see her, make yourself look the best. But you've got to start with the detaching first before you can even begin to really DB.

I must admit that recently, we have seen a lot of each other (Sat breakfast and lunch; Sun lunch throuhg dinner; and Tues dinner and drinks). But we hadn't seen each other since my job loss bomb on the Monday prior. But then again, I guess if you include the text/calls, it does seem like a lot of contact.

I guess one of the silver linings to the job loss is that the child support hearing is now pushed off till mid Dec. The other silver lining is that I'm spending a ton of time with my boys.

The last silver lining is that I'm now spending a lot of my time/energy to looking for a job. I hadn't realized how much time/energy I spent on my wife as looking over my threads, I posts quite frequently during the day (maybe that's why they decided that if they eliminated my position, it wouldn't impact the business). But that's all in the past, can't second guess that now.

So this new focus for me is helping me detach. I do get sad when my boys say/do something that upsets them. But that is part of being a dad, in my mind.

I do think she sees that I'm fine with this job loss bomb. I've been trying to maintain the best CIPA possible, not just when I interact with her, but when I'm with my boys. I do let my vulnerability through when I talk to my friends and close family though. This is a big 180 for me as in the past I never let that side out to anyone. Not even my wife (hence her claim of not knowing who I am after all these years).

Thanks for dropping in and checking in on me again. I'm still thinking about the B'day gift question you had. I'll post something on your thread about that.

Take care