You could try asking in a different way that doesn't make him defensive or shame him. He knows that it makes you feel isolated to call his dad and it is his reaction to you.
Change how you act towards him and he will have no alternative but to change his REaction to you.
Sunshine, I said what I said because you still expect "help" from you ex to "raise" your son. It's over. He's an adult and it is no longer you h's job to help you.
Would it be a decent thing for him to do? Yes. But your h has shown repeatedly how cold and cruel he is toward you. Time to change you tack. I don't give a sh!t who calls who, just stop talking to your ex. Period!
The point I am trying to get across and get advice on is... First of all, NOW this just validates the reason why my xh left. I KNOW this is probably the main reason. Our son has been spoiled and it is BOTH our faults.
Are you saying that the reason your XH left you is b/c your son is spoiled??? Surely you meant something else besides the fact that both of you are guilty of spoiling your son. People do not divorce b/c they spoil their children!
I have observed parents with spoiled children for a long time. There is a difference in what some people call "spoiling" their kids. I have seen children treated very well and yet those kids are kind, respectful, unselfish, and are willing to get an education and go to work. I have seldom seen kids who get whatever they want as often as they want it....turn out to be sucessul adults. And, btw, you do not have to be rich to have spoiled kids. Undisciplined children turn into brats. When they don't want to do anything but what "they" want. It is bad enough to see little brats, but when they are grown brats......that is very, very BAD!
Children need to be MADE to do chores around the house......and especially take care of their own things (like their room, toys, laundry, car, etc.(depending on their age)and to know what it is to put in a day's work and to helpother people; and to obey their parents without any sass,backtalk, or attitude; and to go to school or get a job. These are only a few things that need to be inforced in order to have an unspoiled brat! Brats are those kids who nobody can stand b/c of their undisciplined behavior and bad attitudes. They show no respect and don't care about anybody but themselves. Later in life when they try to have R's with other people, it usually falls apart b/c they do not have the background of maturity that they need to build any foundation upon.
Renee, you and your H waited too long to try to train your son the way he should have grown up and now you don't have many options left available to you. About the only way this kid is going to turn around is to learn from the school of hard knocks. It will either be from those who love him or those who could care less. I would think it would be better to start with those who actually care about him. They call it "tough" love for a reason. It is hard! It will not be easy and it will not be fun for you or him. However, it is not completely too late to make adjustments in him and for his sake, I hope you will begin this week. Expect him to resist you and put up a fight. Don't fight with him, just lay down the law.......that being he can no longer live with you and he has to get out. When he asks what he's suppose to do......tell him that is his problem. Sounds cold? Listen, the more suggestions you try to offer.....the bigger the battle will get, so the less said...the better. Don't suggest anything. If he wants to know why he has to get out, tell him he is grown and it's time. Just don't fall into the trap he will throw at you. He may try to make promises......don't buy into it. This is for his good. If you prove to him that you can do this.....it will cause him to respect you.
I don't think your son or your XH has ever respected you and you have lived with that treatment for so long, it feels normal to you, but it ISN'T normal. Please do not sit back and be treated like this in your home.
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Basically he stands behind son.
Oh really? Then why doesn't he have his son live with him? Let's see how much daddy stands behind his son after you tell him to find someplace else to live. I think daddy will bad-mouth you.
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BUT now that xh is out of the house he thinks he doesnt have to deal with it. Should he???
The fact that you even have to ask us is a sign that you are not as strong as you need to be, Renee. Your XH thinks he is getting a free ride out of this whole deal......and so far, he has! Why boys gets as old as your son is and he's showing disrepect for his mother.....it is high time that dear old dad steps in and get's this boy's attention. I don't think he will b/c he's too focused on what he (your XH) wants at the present. But you can't help that now. All you can do is be firm and don't allow either of them to take advantage of you. I may be wrong in my assumptions but what your H called wanting everything your way, etc., was probably you just making "noise" in protest to how you were being treated all those years. I think you did not know how to stand your ground and make them respect you. You may have complained, but it did not change anything. Now may be your last chance to make a difference where your son is concerned.
After your son is out of the house, never allow him to put you or his dad in the middle of his childish situations. For an example, the way the was on the two-way radio with his dad while he was wrestling with you over the Internet modem. That is crazy. Can't you see that this is his way of playing the two parents against each other? He knows how to work that part!
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Doesnt cuss me, but talks to me loudly and awful. (and where would he get that. hmmmmm).
As I told you once before......sons learn how to treat women from their dad. However, even if he learn to show you disrespect from his father.....YOU, Renee, are the one who allows him to continue. You allowed him to get away with it the first time he ever raised his voice to you. So, are you going to be the one to stop him??
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Until son gets a job and gets out on his own, or if he works, he can stay here WHILE helping me out.
Renee, get real. He is not going to help out around the house. What are you going to do if he doesn't.....spank him or make him have "time out"? No, it's time he moves....period.
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When I said this he got on the phone with dad and said tell her you are getting me a job, of course dad says yep. His dad has said this and said this, I dont believe nothing he says anymore.
Then why do you play this game?
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I made son let me have the phone and told xh that son disrespects me and puts his finger in my face and he needs to talk to son about it. What did xh tell me????
You know what? The two of you sound like little kids squabbling over something and call daddy to tattle! What did you expect your XH to do? Really! The man can't stand you, Renee. Did you actually think he was going to chew the son out for showing you the same feelings as your XH has? He probably thought it was funny.
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Well...he said "Give my son his phone back, I pay for that phone, DO NOT grab it out of his hand again"...in front of son he said this.
Well, I'm sorry.....but you deserved to hear that b/c you should know better! My gosh, what is it going to take for you to wake up? Why do you put out a welcome mat for him to say these nasty things to you? And.....this was right after you had seen him passing in the car, so I don't think he was sticking his neck out b/c he missed you and was trying to get a good look at you.
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I am at the end of my rope, I dont know what to do.
I'm telling you what to do, but we'll see if you have the courage.
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How in the world can I stay away from xh and let me go through MLC or whatever he is doing, when everytime my son and I argue, he gets on the phone to his dad and complains about me.
I can't believe you even said that! How can he do it??? Very easily! He does not want you any more. He does not respect you and futhermore, he will never respect you as long as you act like this. He looks at this as "your problems"....not his. Why on earth would you even expect your XH, who doesn't even like you any longer, to say anything to the son about respecting you? It would be a joke! The son knows his own father doesn't respect you and that you took that disrespect all the time he was growing up. He LEARNED how to do it from........guess who!
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Like I said this is probably the main reason my xh left and when son does this, it just validates why he left.
I don't think you are being realistic here, Renee. I think you are finding "other" reasons for your H leaving.
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If xh would just only say to out son to NOT disrespect me and back me up.
This is pathetic. Do you really think that your son would stop showing disrespect just b/c his dad said to? What do you call "backing you up"? Why would you expect a man, who feels by you the way your XH has made his feelings very obvious,.....support you with a 19 yr old boy? It is not going to happen, and if this experience did not teach you this, then I am afraid to think what your future is going to be like. Time to get a grip on reality and turn lose of this sorry excuse of a father and you make your son show you respect or else he can stop even coming to visit......much less think about living under your roof. You are in worse shape than I realized and you need to make drastic changes. You can do it......if you want to badly enough and have the guts to follow through and stop depending on your XH.
Sandi
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
One other thing I noticed. Your XH said he paid for that phone your son was using. Was he referring to a cell phone or does XH pay for the bills? Does he finance the house? If he does, then you might run up against a brick wall, at first. If your XH pays for the house or even the utilities then he will probably use excuse as his leverage. Even if your XH had you over a barrel where the house payments or utilities are concerned, there are other ways that you can get around that and force your son's hand. Let us know and we can figure out something.
Also remember how mad you were when XH said what he did in front of your son? You were talking in front of him also, weren't you? If not, then good. If you were talking to XH about your son disrespecting you, etc., the son heard that just as much as what your X said.....and neither should have been said in front of him.
It would be great if your X would grow up and support you where son is concerned, but he isn't so I hope you will take what has been said and think hard on it. I still want to be able to help you. Even if this is worse than taking medicine, it will help in the long run.
Sandi
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
You need to put your foot down with your son before things get out of hand. I have a brother who is 12 years younger than me. He turns 30 this month and is just now moving away from my parents house. My mother has let him walk all over her for years. If he got in a bind, she bailed him out. He didn't do anything around the house to help out and she did everything for him. He needed cigarettes, she bought them. He needed gas money, she gave it to him. He was late on a car payment, she paid it.
She did this to the point of her and my father loosing their home. She would pay for things to help him out even if she didn't have the money.
He has had many jobs over the years but he is lazy. If he didn't feel like going to work then he didn't. If he went out with friends and got home late and was too tired to go to work, he didn't. I blame a lot of this on my brother but also on my mother for enabling him for so long. He has decided to move out with his girlfriend now and my mother is beside herself. She is afraid he will get out there and find out he can't make it. I told her he was 30 years old and it was time for him to man up. This is what you need to do with your son. Tough love...they all need it one time or another.
My brother also "pretended" like he was going to hit my mom at times. My mom is about 5'4" and weighs 100lbs wet and he is 6'2" and weighs about 200lbs. She does not need that stress and neither do you. You need to sit your son down and give him the "house rules" and tell him if he doesn't abide by them then he has to leave. My daughter is 18 and graduated from high school last week and I sat her down and told her that she would have more freedom now that she is an adult but as long as she lived under my roof that she had to listen to me. She has a job and has been paying her own car payment for the last 1 1/2 years. That is how they learn responsibility. I told her I would not charge rent but that she could help out as needed.
Your son will think you are against him and maybe threaten to go live with his father and if he does tell him that is fine. You don't need the added stress in your life. Besides, you have your nephew you are raising and if he sees that your son isn't doing his fair share then he will grow up thinking he doesn't have to do anything either.
As for grabbing the phone and telling your xh how he was doing, I probably would have done the same thing. I am not saying it was the right thing to do but I understand how you want help in dealing with your son. If your xh was any kind of man then he would have gotten back on the phone with your son and told him he needs to listen and respect you. For him to act so childish shows he is no more of a man than your son. They are playing games with you. Stop it now. I know you want a friendship with your xh but sometimes it just isn't meant to be. Heck, my stbx told me one time he was hoping we could be best of friends again one day. Umm, no thank you. I will be civil to him for the kids sake but that is it.
Good luck with whatever you decide to do with your son. Just remember, even if he gets mad he will always love you.
Sunshine, I said what I said because you still expect "help" from you ex to "raise" your son. It's over. He's an adult and it is no longer you h's job to help you.
Kimmie I dont expect my xh to help me RAISE my son, my son is already "raised", BUT yes I guess I did expect him "being a dad", to tell son to NOT disrespect his mother. As Sandi said though, why I thought my xh would tell son this is beyond me. I guess I thought by staying away from xh for 3 months or so would lesson his anger toward me. I was wrong! Kimmie I am just trying so hard for everybody to get along. It saddens me. I guess I am trying to hard and expecting too much.
Renee, Sandi said it all in her post. Parents in today's society must retake control of thier homes, I deal with a lot of this everyday, parents saying they can't do anything with thier kids, well, its not CAN'T, its DON'T WANT TO.
You are right BH. What is your occupation? If you dont mind me asking.
Renee, I have to ask you this question. Why do you insist on talking to your XH? You take any opportunity to talk to him when you know darn good and well that he will not talk to you nor take your side no matter what it is. Its like you are obsessed with trying to get this man to talk to you. Renee, you are only making it worse.
BH I dont insist on talking to him. I know it looks like I do but I dont. I have tried my hardest to stay away from him and not communicate with him. Yes I did grab son's phone. He was taking everything to the extreme, and really making things worse. He was wanting his dad to take his side. I couldnt take it anymore and I tried to demand that my xh stand up and be a man and do what he did when he was home. "Demand son to respect his mother". Didnt work did it. Lesson learned again. BH I am "obsessed" with trying to get along with everybody involved. I am still trying to adapt to a man I loved for 20 years and who I know loved me back, now almost hating me. The hard thing to do.
We're on a roll here....I couldn't agree more. LOL! He is grown Renee. If he can't live by your rules and respect you, then it's time for him to get a taste of the real world......
...and no you don't need your xh's help with this one. YOU can handle this. YOUR house YOUR rules. It's that simple.
Trapt his dad will not let him live with him and son has no where else to go. I am sorry but it is sooo hard for me to just set him out with no where to go. I know I need to teach him a lesson. It would be one thing if his dad would let him live with him but his dad wants no part of the drama. Cant say i blame his dad, but that being said, he is his DAD. I was raised that no matter what your age you still respect your parents and your parents will always be there for you.
Are you saying that the reason your XH left you is b/c your son is spoiled??? Surely you meant something else besides the fact that both of you are guilty of spoiling your son. People do not divorce b/c they spoil their children!
Sandi my xh didnt exactly leave because our son is spoiled, but being spoiled plays a part of why son acts out the way he does, and xh has said he is going to live the rest of his life in peace. I have thought about this many times and I do think this is one of the main reasons my xh left. I say this because of all the comments xh has made before and after divorce. I dont know if you read, please forgive me for repeating myself if you did, but xh said once. "I am leaving, you can go with me if you want to". We had been dealing with son with the same issues, no job, computer all the time and disrespecting me. Xh said he couldnt take it anymore but I could always talk to xh and settle him down a bit. This went on and on and I think "among" other stuff that happened, pushed my xh over the edge. I am not saying it is my sons fault. I am saying it is a mixture of things. I should not have said it was the main reason. I was wrong in saying that.
I hope you will begin this week. Expect him to resist you and put up a fight. Don't fight with him, just lay down the law.......that being he can no longer live with you and he has to get out.
Sandi, I do lay down the law to him, but I will be honest with you. I dont know if I can just put him out. I am sorry, I know I need to, but he has no where to go. I did send him to his dads once and he came back begging me to forgive him. It's funny how much he loves his dad and talks to him with respect...even beyond respect now. (Son is so afraid of losing his dad he says "I am sorry dad" every other sentence.), but yet he doesnt like staying with his dad unless its on a trip. My xh though told son right up front that he could not live with him. I think that its sad, compared to the relationship his dad and him had.
I don't think your son or your XH has ever respected you and you have lived with that treatment for so long, it feels normal to you, but it ISN'T normal. Please do not sit back and be treated like this in your home.
Son does talk to me like my xh "sometimes did". I dont want you to think xh or son "always" talked to me this way. Just sometimes. I honestly feel like I am bashing xh and son, and I dont want to do that. I dont want you or anyone else here to think they "always" were mean to me. They loved me and did do nice things for me. It was just when they were in a bad mood, or didnt get their way they could for sure have their little moments. Generally though my xh seemed to always raise his voice, so I think son picked up on that. Sandi I just dont want to give you the impression that they were like this all the time. The fact that they were hateful and disrespectful at all is wrong, but they were also good to me many times. I will have to say though that son and dad fought alot more than xh and I did. I always tried to take sons side and get xh to cave. THIS WAS NOT GOOD! and now I am paying for that. I just didnt like the way my xh yelled and cussed at son, and he did this most of the time during arguments.
Sandi I wanted to give you an example of how xh talks to son. When they were on the phone and son was complaining, son was also cryiing a little because he was soooo mad at me. XH yelled at son and told him he was tired of him acting like a baby and #$%%%% crying all the time. Am I the only one that thinks this is wrong? There is other ways in dealing with a child, even adult child other than cussing and yelling. This is what xh did when we fought also. Most of the time he yelled and cussed and threatened leaving.
BUT now that xh is out of the house he thinks he doesnt have to deal with it. Should he???
The fact that you even have to ask us is a sign that you are not as strong as you need to be, Renee.
Sandi as you can see alot of people on here disagree with the fact that I think xh should help, so that is why I asked SHOULD HE?
For an example, the way the was on the two-way radio with his dad while he was wrestling with you over the Internet modem. That is crazy. Can't you see that this is his way of playing the two parents against each other? He knows how to work that part!
Sandi how am I suppose to keep son from calling his dad (while he is still in the home)? I tried to talk to his dad because I felt like I had to defent myself. Yes I do see what he is doing.
Renee, get real. He is not going to help out around the house.
Sandi son had a job and he did give me most of his money. He quit after 3 or 4 months though. Also he does pick up the house. It's just this staying in his room on the computer and not trying to find another job and mostly his attitude toward me, like he is the MAN of the house.
You know what? The two of you sound like little kids squabbling over something and call daddy to tattle! What did you expect your XH to do? Really! The man can't stand you, Renee. Did you actually think he was going to chew the son out for showing you the same feelings as your XH has? He probably thought it was funny.
Sandi. I didnt want son to call his dad. What was I suppose to do after he did call him? Yes I probably did actually think he was going to say something to son. I left my xh alone and hadnt even seen him in 3 months, I thought maybe the anger would have lessoned by now. I was wrong. I honestly thought maybe when he stuck his head out the window he was just being nosey maybe. I thought maybe this time, xh will say something to son like he did when he was home. Yes he probably did laugh at me. He did say "he would never understand us over here"...what the heck is that suppose to mean? (sorry if I already asked this). I can't believe you even said that! How can he do it??? Very easily! He does not want you any more. He does not respect you and futhermore, he will never respect you as long as you act like this. He looks at this as "your problems"....not his. Why on earth would you even expect your XH, who doesn't even like you any longer, to say anything to the son about respecting you? It would be a joke! The son knows his own father doesn't respect you and that you took that disrespect all the time he was growing up. He LEARNED how to do it from........guess who!
I think you misunderstood the question. I didnt mean how can my xh stay away from me. I meant, how can I give my xh space when son keeps complaining to him about me. Like you said xh is never going to respect me if this keeps happening. Son is always going to go running to dad whether he lives here or not. Son and I will disagree again and he will probably call his dad again. KWIM? I know xh doesnt like me Sandi. Everyone here, says to leave xh alone. I am trying to do that, but son talks to him often and I am sure he gets mad and wants xh to take his side even when I dont know it, and the arguing just validates one of the reasons why xh left. XH will never get the chance to deal with whatever he is dealing with and he will never want to come home if this keeps happening, why would he?
This is pathetic. Do you really think that your son would stop showing disrespect just b/c his dad said to? What do you call "backing you up"?
Yes Sandi I think it would help. He doesnt seem to do this as much when his dad puts his foot down. I call backing me up...when son calls to complain to his dad, I expect his dad to tell him, "son you leave with your mom so you go by her rules, grow up and stop calling me to complain", this would be good for starters. Unrealistic??? Anything would be better than telling him to get away from me and agreeing with son when xh isnt even here to hear or see whats going on.
Sandi I was wrong to think things may have gotten a little better between xh and I since we have not seen or hardly spoken to each other. How long does this anger last?
You are in worse shape than I realized
Hmmmm...this says alot to me. I have thought this all along. Sandi, thank you for all your advice.
