Jumping in (1st post)

[Gardener]

Venting (whining?):
And then down a bunch of notches I go. Why? Because tonight S says "That's a great photo W emailed us, isn't it?" Told him I didn't get anything so he sends it to me, I look at email details and see I'm no longer on her Family email group/list whatever.
Great progress on me/my stuff last coupla weeks, great feedback from telecoach and IC. Noticed W tried to keep me from ending call last time she called me with $ question. Even noticed lately (last 2, 3 calls?) that she's dropped her last-couple-of-months habit of greeting/opening phone calls with our names:(Hi, Gardener? It's W...") versus the lazy/familiar shorthand we all adopt over time: ("Hi. It's me"). Then I realized that that $ question call was 8 days ago(!) She's going dark??
And, hey, last two email responses from W's sister (who I adore and with whom I've never disussed sitch) were curt, flat....and I spiral down to not appreciating smallstep progress to actually finding (inventing?) some negatives.

Aw, screw it. Just whining. Tired. Time for bed. W's stopping by in the morning so I gotta find my PMA, put it in its recharger and have it all fired up for the morning,

Thankyewverymuch.

[stillloveshim]

That is pretty small in the scheme of things....let it go. Concentrate on the bigger things and keep in mind, she probably took you off the list to be kind and there was no nasty motive behind it so let it go and relax. Keep working on you.

[Gardener]

Aaarrgghh!
It all comes together in my head and my heart, when I read, post and plan. So why does it (sometimes? Usually?) not come together in real time?

W came over this morning w/dog. Chatted w/DIL (and me, kinda) in kitchen while I made my breakfast. She appears fine w/dil, but I sense uncomfortable, awkward, artficial-ness when she talks to me. She went out to garden to cut flowers while I ate. Then I joined her. A few words about state of garden after yesterday's downpour, then:
W: So how are you?
M: I'm good! How are you doing?
W: I'm fine.
M: What's new?
W: Nothing. Have you given any thought about the mediator?
M: Actually, I haven't thought about it at all. (I haven't except when I would realize she hasn't brought it up once since last MC 6 weeks ago).
W: Well, would you? I'd like to get started.
M: I'll give it some thought.

I should mention here that shortly after she moved out she said she never wants to live in our house again regardless of our outcome. Two months ago she said she would like to live in it one more time before we sell it (tentative selling=next spring) and I asked her what arrangement she foresaw living here? She said Alone (you move out), Together as housemates, or...Together.
I let it go. After last MC at which time I said "I'll move out only when it's sold", and she asked me to reconsider, I did just that (hey, I am a reasonable man) and informed her (via email) I changed my mind and she could move back in when her lease is up in December, I'll move. The next time I saw her, she was sincerely grateful and not in a "Yes! I won! sense," but a "Really? You sure? Thank you," sense. I meant it in a generous, no ulterior motive way. It wasn't until afterward I thought, "good, I bought what I needed: time, I forestalled the (pre-db) inevitable until December - Spring." I ended the email by asking her to consider not doing anything re:mediator/divorce for a while, explaining, "...not in the hopes that you'll change your mind, just in an exhausted, drained 'not now...just not now' sense."

I should also mention that I think I'm totally against the whole Mediator route since I've been told that in Connecticut, depite the term, Mediator, a mediator represents the party that contacts/contracts with them and the other party needs to get a lawyer to represent them in the process. Besides, we already agreed that there is probably nothing we will disagree on dividing.

Anyway...I feel like I struck out in real time. Goals (mine/DB/TLR/Telecoach):

Always agree: Didn't say "Mediator? Sure! Get it going!" How, how, how does one say/agree to something one would never agree to short of being at gunpoint?

Don't oppose/don't refute: Well, I managed that one, I guess.

Be expressive: Telecoach says I come across monotone, flat (I do). I'm sure I did post-mediator.

Act happy: I'm sure I looked stunned when she said it.

Act confident: Ditto

Show her something different. Make her pause and wonder... Feel like I showed her an uncharacteristic deer-in-the-headlights look. Different, but not good

Every interaction is a chance to demonstrate change and 180s. Not so good this morning

Validate/acknowledge: Did I say, "You're saying you're still thinking of contacting a mediator and want to know if I've considered it?" Nope.

Act like her friend: Not after the Mediator question. I reflexed into monotone matter-of-fact (which she has said she over-interprets as cold, withdrawn, controlling).

Mirror her feelings : She seemed uncomfortable. I didn't validate/explore.

And on and on.
I dunno, I give myself a B+ pre mediator interaction in house, a D post-mediator in garden. Emotions, abandonment, "Danger! Danger! DB isn't working! Abort! Abort!"

And why do I lately think she wants me to say something? Is that my old knee-jerk pleading trying to resurface. Wanting to say, "Let's work on this," "I need more time; don't you need more time?" "I love you" again (I love saying I love you to her). But, no, I won't say that again unless it's someday in response to her saying it again. And saying something, discussing R is not good right now. Still, lately, I think she wants me to say something, or am I just getting Hollywood-happy-endingish?

Wait, I just had a thought while previewing this post: Maybe I'm misinterpreting. Maybe she doesn't want me to say something, maybe she's trying to trigger the pleading/negative/me to show herself that "He'll never change"

You know how some of us early post-bomb plead, "Throw me a bone...give me some hope, here"?
Well, I only said that once. Then I decided to find it. Something. Each month, Though it went south after after a couple of months. Here's what I grasped at/lived on: *

December: "Come back to me, Gardener." Even though she had left, I knew what she meant. Felt good.

January: Holding my hands, looking deep in my eyes: "I love you, Gardener, you." Ditto above.

February: "Be my hero, Gardener" Didn't ask her exactly what she meant by that until 6 weeks later and all she offered was, "Oh, that. Be strong, be more positive."

March: "I still need us, Gardener"

April, she wanted one month of no contact. We agreed in MC office. Then, Bomb 2: What the Hell happened in April?( I suspect her Find-your-own-voice, make-your-own-life IC).

**End of April: "I may not be re-entering our marriage, you know."

**May 13: I want a D

* Ladies, please help me out, here. Need Women's POV/Take
** Triple Dog Dare Ditto on this sudden turnaround!

Her Birthday's tomorrow. Mailed a card: "W, Happy Birthday! Always, Gardener"
Every year for 18 years I woke her up on her birthday rocking her while singing the entire Beatles' Birthday. I bet/hope she's gonna miss that tomorrow morning. I will.

[Gardener]

Thanks.
When you get a chance, could you check my last post and advise because:
a) I'm having a semi-freakout day
b) I need a woman's point of view of latest development and my December-May recap of where (I thought) W's head was at.

"Calling any and all women/WAWs for perspective!"

[stillloveshim]

First and foremost--no matter how dark it gets, never never lay down and die.
Second, don't believe anything they say and only half of what they do.
Make it clear to her that you are not interested in divorce or anything that will make that happen. If you are not interested in going to a mediator, tell her simply. No. I will not go to a mediator. I will continue to live my life but I will not help you in ending soemthing I think is wonderful and has the potential to be even more wonderful....the envy of the neighborhood.
Forget the past. Concentrate on you today so that maybe she'll be a part of your future.
You can have your freak out days. But I do PROMISE YOU, there will be more but then you manage, you get a hold of the situation and you'll be amazed at how you'll be handling all of this not that far from now.
Don't think that because she seems to be talking divorce that you have to help and be nice about it. You do have to be nice, but you don't have to help her with this crazy idea of D. Make it clear, you're not interested in that.

[Gardener]

Well, I guess I'm just venting and going on and on (and up and down) today.

Pre-Db I got something from the most unlikely source that resonated with me and gave me hope (hope, but no real direction, alas).

On the TV show Boston Legal, no less: Attorney Alan Shore is doing an overnight courthouse jail cell stint for contempt. With him in his cell is a state senator busted for being with a prostitute. Senator's devastated wife arrives and confronts him through the bars and, although he turns his head to afford the couple some modicum of privacy, Alan hears and is witness to some wrenching exchanges between them.

Later, when the devastated state senator is being released, Alan approaches him and offers:

"You and she seem to love each other very much. I suspect the pain she feels can only come from love. Don't let her give up on you. I know you would never give up on her. Don't let her give up on you."

At some deep level this really resonated with me even though, at the time, I thought, "Yes! Exactly! But...how?

About six weeks later, I found the beginning of the "how" here.

On with roller coaster ride...

[Gardener]

Thank you, stilly. I knew you'd come through with exactly what I needed to hear and do.

Make it clear to her that you are not interested in divorce or anything that will make that happen. If you are not interested in going to a mediator, tell her simply. No. I will not go to a mediator. I will continue to live my life but I will not help you in ending soemthing I think is wonderful and has the potential to be even more wonderful....the envy of the neighborhood.

Boy, did I miss the obvious on this: Post-pleading stage, I've just been going along.

No. I will not be an active participant in this.

And you worded it just perfectly.

[Gardener]

Oh, and any guesses on the Dec-March signals vs. the sudden April/May collapse?

(Am I being a pest?)

[stillloveshim]

Sure, lots of theories....but ultimately, everyone of our WAS are sort of nutzo. And then we become sort of nutzo too. This board is about teaching and supporting each other through the nutzo.

Do you have any idea who she is confiding in right now? Is there some idiot out there who thinks divorce ends pain? Divorce is a viable solution? I think divorce works when someone is getting physically abused or someone has an addiction they refuse to fix, such as a substance addiction, porn, etc. But even then, there is potential to work and fix the issues.
Anyways, I'm babbling.....

I recently told my H, it's officially time for both of us to shut up. He asked what that meant and I said Until one of these stupid people in your ear tells you 'Hey, I'll help you raise your son, do your laundry, rub your feet when they hurt, help you with the bills, listen when you're upset, and basically all around be here for you in any circumstance' then they can go F themselves and it's time for them to stay out of MY personal life.

I do believe since then he has limited his conversations about us to only his parents who are the only people I can think of who would meet the qualifications of the above list, maybe not the feet rubbing, the rest of it. As do my parents, minus the feet rubbing. What's more, my friends, while pissed have told me to fight for this tooth and nail. I know some of his "friends" (two in particular, both female) have told him to get out....blah blah blah.

And since he's limited his conversation about our personal life, things have been much better between us. Decisions that have been made have been good ones and we're still very capable of getting a divorce, BUT he has agreed to continue with our marriage program....which he was against vehemently after agreeing to do it.

So IF you think there is a person or persons in her life telling her divorce is the answer, silence that person somehow. And no, don't hurt them, but maybe let her know you would find it very violating to find out she was discussing this issue with anyone, esp. not family who loves you both.

In terms of the changes from basically "I love you" to "I want to see a mediator", she's going through her own valleys, and crossing her own mountains. Just stay firm with what DR teaches you.....the majority of couples who survive this come out the other end even stronger. Let her know you've learned that and yo believe it. You will not quit on this marriage. You won't stop living, but you won't quit either.

It's odd, you are going to fight the person you love the most because they are the person you love the most.

[Gardener]

Main culprit is IC (Find your own voice/get on with your life)
Former MC (don't know if she is still seeing him by herself - she was)
DIL and SIL don't get much detail. DIL said "everyone" (?) is telling her not to do this., that she doesn't know what to do. SIL says she's "very upset over breaking up/ending the great blended family you guys built," "she doesn't know what will become of her alone", and "She's in a lot of pain. I've never seen her like this."

The first sentence is the answer (and I have no control over/access to IC).
The rest are just...commentary.

Despite Sep and D request, maybe I shouldn't be TLRing this. She's insecure along with being confused and in pain and whenever she reads my mind, she goes way off the charts to fiction-land, so Lord knows how she's interpreting my LTRing.