First thing to do: STOP TALKING ABOUT THE RELATIONSHIP!!!! There is no other starting place. Second thing: STOP FIGHTING WITH HIM ABOUT EVERYTHING AND ANYTHING. This is an absolute must. You are NOT going to argue him into seeing things your way, you just aren't.
Things to think about: Your H is more likely to be swayed dand influenced by a total stranger right now vs. you. So stop. Stop trying to change him.
YOU change first. YOU.YOU.YOU.YOU.YOU.YOU. You can change you. YOU CAN NOT CHANGE HIM. So why bother?
Stop the fighting. Stop getting worked up over crap he does and says. Ignore it. Start the change in you there. PROMISE you, there will be not one fight this weekend. Then Sunday night, promise yourself, not one fight until Wednesday and so forth....unless he punches you or someone else....let it all go. Just try it. See where it takes you.
I don't understand why you assume I am doing any of these things? I have not spoken with him outside of MC about anything related to R in over 3 months. I NEVER fight with him. Ever. I don't have to say I won't fight until Sunday or Wed. I haven't had a fight with him since the beginning of March. I don't think I have said anything that should lead you to believe this. Yes, I get worked up over crap he says every once in awhile & I use this board to vent.
I do appreciate your other advice, but just don't understand this.
Me 36, Him 33 M 11yrs, T 15yrs S 8, D 7 ILYBINILWY - 1/09 H moves out 10/09 D to be final SOON I HOPE!
"Forrest! My head is spinning. I need straight answers."
OK.
"I get that I need to show with actions the changes."
You need to show with actions that the changes are lasting.
You do this simply by changing. Maybe you don't know where you will change.. but it is a process and if you really put "yourself" into it.. it will happen.
"I need to continue moving forward & not looking back."
You will always look back. You need to look back with a "clear" mind.
"I don't know how I can lead this stitch to a better place w/o sacrificing myself."
This is where you "Re-Think" things. If you find yourself going the wrong way.. life will clue you in. Again a big part of this is getting the "big picture". You will still get things wrong. The hope is you recover quicker.
"This was H's words about himself"
In the big picture.. he is trying to find his-self. Just like you. If you can "see" that.. then you can act correctly.
"Here's the hard part...H LIKED the qualities in me when we met that he DOESN'T like now."
As we grow up.. we find the things we liked.. can be overwhelming at times. Lets take money as an example. We all like that. But if you look around at people that have lots of money.. are they really happy? How many stories are there that involve someone winning the lottery.. and 10-15 years down the road.. wishing they had never won.
I like music. All kinds. Cause they tell stories. To a point it shows that the artists go thru the same things that me and you go thru. Now most artists don't write their own songs. They have writers. But they (artists) do pick things that hit close to home.
"Here's the hard part...H LIKED the qualities in me when we met that he DOESN'T like now. He liked that fact that I was brutally honest, he liked that I didn't pull any punches, he liked that I was a strong, assertive woman."
And you thought it was the looks. We (men) all want a strong woman. But we don't want you to be.. too strong.
"I think I have relaxed on all that stuff over the years and have been told the same thing by many people I am close with even before this happened. I have had H's mother tell me this past Xmas - you have become so friendly over the years. I have had other friends say - you have really changed and grown in your faith over the years, you used to be way more "I don't care what anybody thinks, I'm going to say what I feel" & now you have really toned things down as you've matured."
What you will find is that most likely you have softened.. to the outside world. But not so much to the world you hold close. I say this simply because that is what I have learned from all this. We tend to project onto those that are close.. cause they should know us. They should have hard skin. It begins to wear on them. That is why they blame us.
"Who in their "right" mind decides 14 years into a R that they were never able to act the way they wanted to, never said anything to their spouse about it & now holds their spouse responsible & spews off all this hatred making me feel like I am SATAN?"
Well.. to be honest.. you have to define the word "right". I "" it in your statement so it would be clear. When things "fail" who will you blame? The ones closest to you... or the guy standing at the corner?
"I am trying to think outside the box, but I need HELP!!!"
We all need HELP!!!
We want the "answer". I can't give you that. I can distract you and hope you gain something from it.
#1.. Find things that pull your mind out of this situation.
#2.. Only have R conversations that he starts (Even in MC). When you talk make sure that you respond only with "you" references.
Ex....
Him: You don't understand me.. you are always fighting me.
You: I want to understand. I get mixed messages and it is hard for me to understand you.
#3.. Don't worry so much about screwing up. It will happen.
#4.. Put a smile on your face.. even if its fake.
Then start back at #1
That is the 4 points of your box.
He will engage you.. he will make you think you screwed up.
To a point you can post some possible things you may run into and I will do my best to answer them.
When/if he leaves.. things change and we need to re-think.
Relax Eat Think Act normal React.. Smartly. Do something different. Emulate. Do Work.
HVA, other than the last session....do you like your MC? I just can't get over the MC telling your H to turn to you and say that....???? If you are not fighting with him then that is great. What are you doing for you? How are the kids holding up or are they in the dark? If I'm doing the math correctly, you've been together since before either of you were legal to drink. That's pretty amazing. What is his demeanor around you? How many people know what is going on? One of the things I'm fighting now is that my H ran his mouth a wee bit too much. I think he's struggling with that now and wishes he hadn't.
I do like MC, but don't know if she is addressing things the way someone with the severity of his marital issues are. I also think he may be bringing problems that he had from childhood into the M & have to wonder if IC is something he needs. Maybe he needs to work through some of these issues BEFORE he can work on us (if he ever can). His mother has been married & divorced 4 times. She is a narcissist - EVERYTHING revolves around her & how great she is. She's always given H guilt trips & expects him to "fill in" where a husband should since she is single. She's the type of person that cuts you right out of her life if she has a problem with you. She hadn't spoken to her own mother in so long (so neither did H), that when her mom died & she called H, he got off the phone & said - My mom's mom just died. I said - you mean your GRANDMA? She treated him as a surrogate H & always implied it was "them against the world". He was also labeled as "just a good kid who never gave her problems". I have to wonder if he didn't develop a facade early on that was never really him in order to cope. He's always been the laid back, optimistic guy. People that know his mom & would meet him would always say - I can't believe SHE raised someone as nice as him. Now I'm wondering how that really did affect him.
Not to mention his father. He has not seen or spoken to his dad since he was 14 yrs old. I found out from his dad's next wife (they are now divorced) that when they were married, he used to try to see H & his mom would never let him. If I ever asked H about his dad, he would always tell me that he "just didn't care about him". Although when our son was born, H's dad sent a gift to the baby shower with 2nd wife & when H found out he was ENRAGED & wanted it returned IMMEDIATELY. So there is deep-rooted anger there.
I don't know if the "ghosts of his past" are now catching up w/him & he is blaming it all on me? I know I'm not perfect & am making the changes I think will benefit me either way.
For me, I am trying to reconnect with people that I have not had the energy to keep up with due to all of this. I am working out w/a trainer 3 days/week. I am actively involved in my church & am starting to do volunteer work with senior citizens.
The kids are in the dark. Yes, we have been together since I was 21 & he was 19. I always felt like we grew up together. We built the life we have TOGETHER. We met at college & were very good friends that knew everything about each other before we even started dating. We had the same circle of friends.
His demeanor around me is somewhat guarded. He talks less and less about his outside life so it is getting to the point that I don't even know what to talk to him about anymore. He cuts me out more & more each day.
Even though H gives off the laid back impression, he is extremely private. I don't know who he is talking to about anything. My friends & family know the situation. Most of my friends that know are out of state, either old friends from HS or college.
Me 36, Him 33 M 11yrs, T 15yrs S 8, D 7 ILYBINILWY - 1/09 H moves out 10/09 D to be final SOON I HOPE!
mach - what do you say to all the childhood baggage? Does that even matter? g-ville, near border of loudoun.
Hi Hope, With apollogies to you and Mach for butting in on your question to him, it's good to be able to recognize your H's baggage. It will help you to stay on a more even keel. You have recognized the issues he is likely dealing with- this is good. It will help you to be able to see that, not only are there issues that your H has to figure out for himself, but that...
There is no way for you to help him with his issues.
You seem to me to be someone who has already figured this out. I only mention it because there is quite the difference between knowing something in your head, and getting it through to your heart.
We all want to be there for our spouses- we want to help them because we love them. But sometimes that help has to come in the form of backing off, and letting them figure it all out for themselves.
You've got it through your head- how about through your heart?
I only ask because it's a slipery slope, and we can so easily fool ourselves into saying yes, when, looking back later, we see that it wasn't so.
So, if you have got it through to your heart, then you DO recognize that his path has to be travelled by him, and him alone.
So the only person you can work on is yourself.
It sounds like you're addressing that already. Keep up the good work.
You're not alone in this- we're here for you.
PATIENCE AND FORTITUDE CONQUER ALL THINGS. -Ralph Waldo Emerson
DBing and MLC take their toll....Please provide exact CHANGE. -Jimbo
