I concur, not you but your MC....what a strange way to make you both communicate. Saying it once wasn't enough he had to look you in the eyes.....WTF? Really? Did you feel better? Do you think your H felt better? I hope not.
Whether your H wants to work on the marriage or not is irrelevant. You have children together. He will want to put the issues aside. I don't believe either of you want to fight or be upset or walk on eggshells or have ripped up tummys from all of the anxiety. I say you don't know until you try. My H was ready to file for divorce...he and his father were working on the agreement. We've since started this way of dealing with each other, we've made small promises to each other and some bigger ones. So far, so good. We are learning to rebuild trust now. The next step that we will get to this week is together making a list where we both decide what we don't want to talk about anymore, fight about or even mention because it doesn't end well. Soon we'll try to conquer actions, but I think that is going to be much more difficult. But my H wants out too. He's been very clear he doesn't want to fix anything he just wants out. But he's trying this with me and much of it has to do with our son. Whatever the reason, why wouldn't your H agree to tabling the issues for a while to build some trust and good feelings then conquer the problems? Who says no to less stress? Try him. Ask him.
Stop every opportunity he has to say it's over, he's only doing this make sure he is walking away with a clear mind set that he did everything.
"I guess so, but there is not supposed to be any R talk...and me telling him something that I don't like, would be taken as a criticism no matter how I phrase it. I guess I don't understand what I should be communicating to him that I haven't already."
Talking will not help you much.
What I really want you to do is read what you just wrote.
Just what I quoted. Now.. when you don't understand something what should you do?
What if communicating with him.. did not involve your mouth at all?
Think about it. I know it is hard. But the best thing I could do for you is help you understand. It will be a "light bulb" moment for you.
"I don't understand - he already said it before she asked him to turn & say it to me."
The "gun" reference was to help you understand where he is. When people are backed into a corner they do all kinds of weird things. Take a sample of your life from the past 30 days. Have you done anything weird? Let me say that I was a Semi-LBS. I have worn your shoes. Been to MC and all that. MC was bad for "us". It never ended well. It made me more desperate. If we flip that.. what would you guess he is feeling?
"I forgot to mention something here. First he said (trying to be funny) - she's probably cussing me out in her head. Then he said I can't tell. I think he was EXPECTING me to be angry, but when I kept my composure & wasn't AND I wasn't even looking sad, it threw him off."
So... I was right? He is still looking back. That is all he has. You posted.. so you are no longer looking back. Again.. read what you wrote.. and what "Worked".
"I don't know - any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Sometimes I feel like this whole thing is one big riddle & I'm not good at riddles!"
I have been accused of speaking in riddles. And some of this may seem that way. When some one says "I don't know" at work.. what should they follow that statement up with? (BUT I will find out?) So again.. we point back to "research" what will help?
"I've tried to offer the option of staying married to me & me making changes. I don't know what else there could be??? Once again, any suggestions or examples?"
He will have to make changes to. This is the flaw in your statement. You can't carry this relationship on your own. You have proved that. That is why you are here. You both can grow from this.. poop. Someone has to lead. You got my vote just simply by posting. How can you lead this "stitch" to a better place.. without sacrificing you? That is the question you need to answer.
"I was just happy that I achieved my goal."
"- H thinks I ALWAYS have to get my way."
More of the same maybe?
If your goal was to "strip away the argument". Yes you won.
If your goal was to "show some love". I would question that.
"I agree"
Who has forgotten the most?
"I don't know"
You can't go on what you have heard. You can't look back.
Why is the man that wants to leave... not gone yet?
"He has said he knows I love him & would do anything for him...on the other hand, controlling, inflexible, probably selfish, condescending, cold"
Is this you? Do those words resemble you?
"Loyal, honest, loving, compassionate & trying to change the inflexible, opinionated, selfish part"
It's hard to do with all the "stuff" coming at you isn't it? Can you be that.. with all that is coming at you? Is that who you really are? Was it attractive at some point to "someone"?
"I think it starts by acknowledging that my dreams were not "our dreams"
Wrong.. you fail.
"I'm willing to sacrifice alot, I'm willing to give 100%"
OK you said it.. are you sure?
"I also wanted to mention that when he said I am more assertive now"
I am not sure this is great thing. Please be assertive when you are being "run over". Pick your battles.
"P-burg ?"
10 North.
"Forrest, Was it the unicorns?"
Are you making fun of my Unicorn?
When I am riding my Unicorn.. your wife is posting.
HVA.. don't take what I say as "hard" as it seems. My only goal is to make you think. I want you to think "outside" the box. I want you to answer the questions. I want you to stand out.
Now....
Relax Eat Think Act normal React.. Smartly. Do something different. Emulate. Do Work.
HVA, basically in a sentence: It sounds to me by all I've read you can save this marriage. I think he's definitely dealing with different feelings that could potentially lead to divorce, BUT you can change those feelings for both of you. You can change the momentum of this relationship. But I agree with FG, it's time to stop talking and start doing.
First and foremost STOP talking about the R. Maybe it's time for a new MC? The more opportunities he has to say I want out, it's over...blah blah blah the more real it becomes, the more it manifests itself in his head.
I think you can save this because he's still home. That's huge for the two of you. There's lot of opportunity for you to work on things together without him knowing it.
In an early post you said something about him being on a business trip. He calls you and you ask him what he'll be doing next when you hang up....he says he'll be taking clients to dinner....you said "Must be nice" or "Tough job" I can't remember exactly, but something sarcastic.
Now really really put yourself in his shoes.....how would that make you feel? Is it really part of his job to do that, to wine and dine clients? Then you can't hold it against him. If you are sincerely jealous though, you could have said with sincerity "Man, I wish I had your job. What are you going to eat?" Something silly and who cares? (And I know how it feels to be left at home with the kids. Believe me I know so it's hard to be chipper sometimes. You love them so much but damn, they are hard hard work. Esp. alone.)
Look at it this way, the more understanding you are about his job and the more you tell him that you and the kids miss him, the more he most likely would rather be at home with you all. You have to make home the place he'd rather be more than anything and comments like that.....he only wants to plan more client dinner meetings.
Since all you've really done is make him feel he'd probably rather not call you at all or lie to you when he does about what he's doing because that's easier and has less guilt. It's hard, believe me I know, but you have to make him want to call you. Make it easy to talk to you. Right now, I bet you both find it hard to call and talk to each other. So take the first step into making it easier. Maybe every now and then call him about something silly--absolutely no point in calling other than to tell him something funny or stupid.
My H and I now have a night for about half an hour when we talk about finances, child stuff, (who's picking up what day), our schedule....all of the business aspects of being in a marriage. That way during the week, it's not the only thing we talk about or call/text each other for. It leaves room to talk about other stuff. See, if all you talk about on the phone is logistics, you are no fun. You're even a bore and chore really. Your calls and your interaction with him becomes "tasks for husband/father".....you get labeled a nag--which in my opinion is completely unfair, but it happens and there's way too much about all of this for all of us here that's truly not fair. But you know what they say about life......
HVA, don't get me wrong....I believe your H has pulled some crap that just sucks and you have the right to be super pissed....but unfortunately saving this marriage right now is all on you just like it's all on me in my marriage. There are days when I'm so pissed at my H for putting me through this, for quitting I just want to scream. I want to punch him in the gut....but where would it get me? Once I calmed down, and I always do, I would regret it and I would be even further back than from where I started.
You can do this but stop talking and start doing. I was told by a friend "You need to lighten up....but more than that, you need to be softer." Maybe this applies to you too.....?
I agree with you on this point, but wonder why has it become a stage for him to express his anger? The previous MC session went well. He took some baby steps & did not act angry. In the session before that one, he was lashing out as well. It's hit or miss. Sometimes I wonder if we should even go to MC.
It really depends on where he is with this....And you don't know that. Until the anger wears down, it will be a stage that he can use. The less YOU talk R with him, the more he will, cause that is the only avenue he has to vent on you.
MC is your call too....My W and I went to one, and I saw that she was going to use that stage to blame me for everything from a flat tire on the Pope-Mobile to the Blizzard of '96. I quickly told her that it was her choice , but I didn't feel she was ready to address the issues fairly to me, therefor it would be a waste of time at this point to go.
It may be more healing for him to go to IC for a while to sort through things for himself, although he will never admit he has any problems.
Maybe you could suggest that you each see the C independantly for a few weeks before you have the room together.
Originally Posted By: stillloveshim
I think one of the reasons DBers are advised and advise each other to avoid the R talk because the more one person says it's over to the other spouse, the more it seems to become real and sinks in. Stop letting him say it.
Yes, don't give him the chance to answer . Look, This is simple....DON'T ask a question if you are not prepared for the answer....STOP ASKING.....Thats why I think that MC is pushing him away.
Most in this situation say these kind of things to re-enforce THEIR position.....they are trying to convince themselves, not you.
If he spews it again ? Validate
Example....I understand that is the way you feel.
You can't assume you are dealing with a rational person right now....
Originally Posted By: Hopeful in VA
I'm trying to look at things from other people's points of view. I am trying to realize that I am not always right. I am trying to listen better and not make assumptions. I am trying to put other people's needs above my own. I am choosing to have a joyful spirit and see the beauty in all things. Starting with my family - trying to just enjoy each day as it comes. I am trying to be patient with people and realize things don't have to get done my way and in my time. I think before I speak. I try not to say anything just to say it, only if there is a benefit (example no reason to criticize). I am trying to stop worrying about the little things & just let things roll off my back. I am careful with my tone & thinking about whether or not there is any underlying meaning to why I am telling someone something (H says I give him guilt trips)
One of these is a little more important than the others.....wanna take a guess ?
There is no try.....only DO THE WORK ....
As Forrest said earlier.....not trying to be mean, just expect YOU to do the work to be better....
Thanks for the input. I think some stuff got lost in translation. The info on the business trips was background information to how we go to where we are today. He quit that job & worked at my company. Now he's back in corporate america, but not traveling.
Pray my weekend goes well!
Me 36, Him 33 M 11yrs, T 15yrs S 8, D 7 ILYBINILWY - 1/09 H moves out 10/09 D to be final SOON I HOPE!
I don't think it was lost in translation. It was insightful. Great that he no longer has to travel...that does add stress to the spouse at home with kids.
No fights. No talks. Remember you when you were dating him. That you is still you. You're just more mature now as a wife and mother, you should be, but you can still bring out that girl he worked so hard to get to marry him.
Forrest! My head is spinning. I need straight answers. Here is what I "get": I get that I need to show with actions the changes. I need to continue moving forward & not looking back. I don't know how I can lead this sitch to a better place w/o sacrificing myself. I am thinking about just giving up. Making my changes & being me. If he doesn't like it, I can't make him. I was just happy that I achieved my goal."
"- H thinks I ALWAYS have to get my way."
okay so my motivation was wrong? How can I stay motivated to do all these things in an "unconditional love" type way, YET detach?
I think it starts by acknowledging that my dreams were not "our dreams"
Wrong.. you fail.
then what is right?
I also wanted to mention that when he said I am more assertive now"
I am not sure this is great thing. Please be assertive when you are being "run over". Pick your battles.
This was H's words about himself
Is this you? Do those words resemble you?
"Loyal, honest, loving, compassionate & trying to change the inflexible, opinionated, selfish part"It's hard to do with all the "stuff" coming at you isn't it? Can you be that.. with all that is coming at you? Is that who you really are? Was it attractive at some point to "someone"?
Here's the hard part...H LIKED the qualities in me when we met that he DOESN'T like now. He liked that fact that I was brutally honest, he liked that I didn't pull any punches, he liked that I was a strong, assertive woman.
I think I have relaxed on all that stuff over the years and have been told the same thing by many people I am close with even before this happened. I have had H's mother tell me this past Xmas - you have become so friendly over the years. I have had other friends say - you have really changed and grown in your faith over the years, you used to be way more "I don't care what anybody thinks, I'm going to say what I feel" & now you have really toned things down as you've matured. I feel like H is the only person who thinks I do all these things. I have lots of friends, I run a very successful business where my clients become MY FRIENDS and give me lots of referrals. Sometimes I wonder if he is just projecting all his crap onto me???
Now I get myself back to the original title of thread when I start really thinking about all this! Why is he doing this???? Who in their right mind decides 14 years into a R that they were never able to act the way they wanted to, never said anything to their spouse about it & now holds their spouse responsible & spews off all this hatred making me feel like I am SATAN?
I am trying to think outside the box, but I need HELP!!!
Me 36, Him 33 M 11yrs, T 15yrs S 8, D 7 ILYBINILWY - 1/09 H moves out 10/09 D to be final SOON I HOPE!
I am trying to think outside the box, but I need HELP!!!
This isn't about you hating your husband. What does Hopeful want?
M22,H45,W45 S21/18D12 Retain faith that you will prevail in the end, regardless of the difficulties and at the same time confront the most brutal facts of your current reality, whatever they might be.
