Gonna Get Me A Mojo Hand

[Coach]

Gosh if only reason and logic was all it took to fix our sitches. If our WAS could only see things differently then our M and family would stay intact.
Here's part of the LBS fog: our wives/husbands are just as scared, hurt, confused, frustrated, and impatient as us, we just can't see it. Why can't we see it- we are still holding onto unproductive and unhealthy beliefs and actions. Our spouses believe they are taking the best course of action, any talk, prayers, pressure and reasoning won't change it right now. BTDT, didn't work for me either. You have to emotionally lead thru this time.
You can't emotionally lead until you get your emotions under control and have let go of the fear, anger, and frustration you hold onto. Mojo isn't the right tool to accomplish this. It's is loving yourself first, practice self-care, examine your emotions, thoughts and feelings. Work on your physical, emotional, intellectual and emotional fitness. This about working on yourself. Cross the chasm from fear to love. You have a choice in how you handle things. To choose wisely think thru your sitch and seek understanding. What are things you can do to improve yourself and care for your beloved when things seem the darkest? This time in your life becomes a whole lot easier once you realise it's all about you. You can make a difference, you are being watched (spouse, friends, family, DBers), you will thrive once you get it, and it does matter how you handle yourself. Strength and Honor.
Cheers

[AlexEN]

Hey dudes and dudettes. let's remember that we too are clinging to some some statistical unlikelihood that we will get our spouses back.

I think it is time to focus on the care of the kids and positive action. Just sayin'. We all know why we are here and how much it sucks.

I thought the purpose of DBing was not to cling to that rope?

But, yes, our odds are very long... But, the difference is that the bet we're willing to make (each spouse "doing the work") is a better bet than the one the WAS is willing to make.

-AlexEN

[aliveandkicking]

Hey dudes and dudettes. let's remember that we too are clinging to some some statistical unlikelihood that we will get our spouses back.

I think it is time to focus on the care of the kids and positive action. Just sayin'. We all know why we are here and how much it sucks.

I thought the purpose of DBing was not to cling to that rope?

But, yes, our odds are very long... But, the difference is that the bet we're willing to make (each spouse "doing the work") is a better bet than the one the WAS is willing to make.

-AlexEN

Of course. But when are judging and catastrophizing, we are clinging to the rope because we think some how our being "better" is going to weigh in. It wont IMO. It is our booby prize. The best we can do, I think, is what Coach keeps espousing, love, keep working on ourselves, stop sizing up and judging the other person...

I have no where near mastered this, that is why I called it out because I want to scream too. He's BAD! And I'm GOOD! But, it isn't going to help me or my kids. Unless it compels me to take some positive action, which so far, it hasn't.

[AlexEN]

Gosh if only reason and logic was all it took to fix our sitches. If our WAS could only see things differently then our M and family would stay intact.
Here's part of the LBS fog: our wives/husbands are just as scared, hurt, confused, frustrated, and impatient as us, we just can't see it. Why can't we see it- we are still holding onto unproductive and unhealthy beliefs and actions. Our spouses believe they are taking the best course of action, any talk, prayers, pressure and reasoning won't change it right now. BTDT, didn't work for me either. You have to emotionally lead thru this time.
You can't emotionally lead until you get your emotions under control and have let go of the fear, anger, and frustration you hold onto. Mojo isn't the right tool to accomplish this. It's is loving yourself first, practice self-care, examine your emotions, thoughts and feelings. Work on your physical, emotional, intellectual and emotional fitness. This about working on yourself. Cross the chasm from fear to love. You have a choice in how you handle things. To choose wisely think thru your sitch and seek understanding. What are things you can do to improve yourself and care for your beloved when things seem the darkest? This time in your life becomes a whole lot easier once you realise it's all about you. You can make a difference, you are being watched (spouse, friends, family, DBers), you will thrive once you get it, and it does matter how you handle yourself. Strength and Honor.
Cheers

Coach,

Believe it or not, I think many above are agreeing with much of what you are saying... My purpose in writing what I did was to point out that no matter how right we think we are, it's irrelevant and counterproductive to "harp on it".

It's an amazing statistic, isn't it? In Vegas they'd call it a "sucker's bet"... 1 out of 5 unhappy WAS will be happy in 5 years; but 4 out of 5 VERY unhappy AWAS who "do the work" will be happily married in 5 years... That's why "for the sake of the kids" is a perfectly valid reason... but for the fact that the statement alienates the WAS in the short-term, making the long-term never happen...

And, as Thinker correctly points out, they KNOW that their bet will "pan out". So, no amount of convincing will ever work. I just wrote this in an off-line exchange with a fellow DBer (one who is much wiser than I):

The irony is that, if anything, when the WAS is where “they are”, our search for the perfect RESPONSE is more likely to backfire and to make them dig their heels in (consciously or sub-consciously)....

In a way, though, it’s not so surprising. DBers are counselled to look at ACTIONS not words; the converse is true, too, the WAS sees our ACTIONS and ignores our words.

I can't speak for Smiley, but my interpretation of "Mojo" is almost exactly as you defined what needs to be done instead of trying to convince through pressure and reasoning which don't matter in our situations. I thought a distinct component of Mojo was (although I'd defer to Smiley's definition):

...loving yourself first, practice self-care, examine your emotions, thoughts and feelings. Work on your physical, emotional, intellectual and emotional fitness. This about working on yourself. Cross the chasm from fear to love. You have a choice in how you handle things. To choose wisely think thru your sitch and seek understanding. What are things you can do to improve yourself and care for your beloved when things seem the darkest? This time in your life becomes a whole lot easier once you realise it's all about you.

-AlexEN

[Greek]

[Remember, every WAS believes that they are the one:

That is, their sitch is special and different and they are the one in 5 that would be happy D'd, and they are also the 1 in 5 that would unhappy staying and doing the work.

Their kids are also the statistical anomaly - the 1 in 4 (or whatever it is) that are not adversely affected by the D.

It is not that they don't believe the statistics, it is just that they choose to see the other side of the statistics ("See, some people are happier D'd!!!") and apply it to themselves.

Have to disagree with you here. I'm certain that I - as a WAS - KNEW with every fiber of my being that I would not be happy divorced. I could barely even picture it - even as I walked out of the door. The WAS knows only that in the M - as it is - she/he is sad, lonely, frustrated, and being drowned. So...they reach for a lifesaver - and move out. It didn't make me happy to leave my home. It didn't give me hope to leave my home. It didn't make me proud to leave my home. It just kept my head above water so I could figure out what I should do with my life next.

I know I said or gave the impression to my H as I was leaving that it was what I wanted, I would make it, I didn't want to be M to him. Really? How much of what we say - the WAS and the LBS - when all of the trauma is unfolding - do we mean? And how much of it is fear and anger talking? If I took everything my H said to me as we were separating and believed it as HIS truth for all time, I never would have come home. My point is, both parties communicate positions in the fog of war that neither is sure of. In fact, I'll bet that pound for pound, most WAS are as scared, sad, angry and heartbroken as the LBS.

[AlexEN]

[/quote]
Of course. But when are judging and catastrophizing, we are clinging to the rope because we think some how our being "better" is going to weigh in. It wont IMO. It is our booby prize. The best we can do, I think, is what Coach keeps espousing, love, keep working on ourselves, stop sizing up and judging the other person...

I have no where near mastered this, that is why I called it out because I want to scream too. He's BAD! And I'm GOOD! But, it isn't going to help me or my kids. Unless it compels me to take some positive action, which so far, it hasn't.
[/quote]

To me the point is this. We're sure we're right. So what? It doesn't matter and to think it does makes things worse. To try to convince the WAS makes it that much worse still... So, yes, work on the other stuff because, as you pointed out, our desired outcome has no chance otherwise and we, as individuals, will not grow. To me that's the realization needed in order not to size up and judge and only then can the positive action begin...

[AlexEN]

[Remember, every WAS believes that they are the one:

That is, their sitch is special and different and they are the one in 5 that would be happy D'd, and they are also the 1 in 5 that would unhappy staying and doing the work.

Their kids are also the statistical anomaly - the 1 in 4 (or whatever it is) that are not adversely affected by the D.

It is not that they don't believe the statistics, it is just that they choose to see the other side of the statistics ("See, some people are happier D'd!!!") and apply it to themselves.

Have to disagree with you here. I'm certain that I - as a WAS - KNEW with every fiber of my being that I would not be happy divorced. I could barely even picture it - even as I walked out of the door. The WAS knows only that in the M - as it is - she/he is sad, lonely, frustrated, and being drowned. So...they reach for a lifesaver - and move out. It didn't make me happy to leave my home. It didn't give me hope to leave my home. It didn't make me proud to leave my home. It just kept my head above water so I could figure out what I should do with my life next.

I know I said or gave the impression to my H as I was leaving that it was what I wanted, I would make it, I didn't want to be M to him. Really? How much of what we say - the WAS and the LBS - when all of the trauma is unfolding - do we mean? And how much of it is fear and anger talking? If I took everything my H said to me as we were separating and believed it as HIS truth for all time, I never would have come home. My point is, both parties communicate positions in the fog of war that neither is sure of. In fact, I'll bet that pound for pound, most WAS are as scared, sad, angry and heartbroken as the LBS.

Maybe some LBS believe they are the exception - that their sitch is different and they have one of those WAS who is just crazy, selfish and cold-hearted. That is not a bet I would make.

Greek,

Thanks for chiming in... But, in my sitch, W has said almost precisely those words (the ones that Thinker wrote). Are you suggesting that we shouldn't believe them and, at some level, isn't that counter to the understanding and listening that the two of you would otherwise encourage?

-AlexEN

[AlexEN]

Sorry SP, getting carried away on your board...

[StrgMarvelousWmn]

[Remember, every WAS believes that they are the one:

That is, their sitch is special and different and they are the one in 5 that would be happy D'd, and they are also the 1 in 5 that would unhappy staying and doing the work.

Their kids are also the statistical anomaly - the 1 in 4 (or whatever it is) that are not adversely affected by the D.

It is not that they don't believe the statistics, it is just that they choose to see the other side of the statistics ("See, some people are happier D'd!!!") and apply it to themselves.

Have to disagree with you here. I'm certain that I - as a WAS - KNEW with every fiber of my being that I would not be happy divorced. I could barely even picture it - even as I walked out of the door. The WAS knows only that in the M - as it is - she/he is sad, lonely, frustrated, and being drowned. So...they reach for a lifesaver - and move out. It didn't make me happy to leave my home. It didn't give me hope to leave my home. It didn't make me proud to leave my home. It just kept my head above water so I could figure out what I should do with my life next.

I know I said or gave the impression to my H as I was leaving that it was what I wanted, I would make it, I didn't want to be M to him. Really? How much of what we say - the WAS and the LBS - when all of the trauma is unfolding - do we mean? And how much of it is fear and anger talking? If I took everything my H said to me as we were separating and believed it as HIS truth for all time, I never would have come home. My point is, both parties communicate positions in the fog of war that neither is sure of. In fact, I'll bet that pound for pound, most WAS are as scared, sad, angry and heartbroken as the LBS.

Greek--

While this may be true for just a WAS, I wonder how true it is for a WAS in an A. they think they have found true love and nothing, not even history and their kids, is going to stop them from being happy. Heck, DH told me last year he deserved to be happy. Guess his happiness is more important than creating a financial mess and putting two of our kids in counseling.

However, being the greener grass is nt as exhausting as i thought it would be and I like the new me better, no matter what DH decides to finally do in the long run.

Living God's blessings with grace and dignity~
SMW

[Greek]

No, I am not saying believe or not. I know even less about the truth of your sitch than you do. I'm just pointing out that your WAS are real, live hurting people - no matter what they say or do. Remember, they have been in the same unhappy marriage that you have been in. And it might be helpful ~~~ and certainly loving ~~~ to at least remember that about the person you are dealing with.

I guess this might not be a very popular pose to strike on this board - be compassionate with your WAS - the one who is ripping your family to shreds. I get that. Trust me - I get that. I just want to make the small point that the WAS is not just "script".