WAW - Very confused and devastated - pt 10

[confusedinpa]

I've been spending a lot of time mulling the play along nice loving approach that I think I've been using. In the past 5 months since she dropped the bomb that she filed (just 1 week after she said she had seen a lawyer to file bomb), I've been trying to convince her that I am trying to understand better to be the loving husband I want to be (my 180).

Just 1 week ago, she said the same thing as she said 5 months ago.

Not sure how much clearer it can be that its not working. Perhaps it was too many backslides or that she hasn't been convinced it's real/lasting, or she just doesn't want to see/believe in anything that could cast doubt in her decision. It doesn't matter, she still hasn't changed her mind. She's moved out for 7+ weeks now.

I've tried Dark/Dim (often backsliding into nice guy) and shifted into friendly but its still not making a difference

My biggest fear of shifting away from my approach is that it will "validate" in her mind that she was right that it wouldn't last.

Any suggestions on how to mitigate that?

I'm involved in a session this week at work to talk about what makes people change. Typically the first step is pain (significant emotional event), followed by despair the discovery that constructive change is possible

Right now she is in the last step, that a divorce is the constructive change (where I'm in despair) I need to pull her back into a signifcant emotional event.

I had tried to do that to show her that I can be a loving husband. In hopes of making her remember our dream of happily ever after to want it again. She still doesn't want it right now

Maybe its a fear/trust thing or whatever. Since she's been doing so many non-typical WAW things, I thought there was hope that she was still looking for hope as well. I don't know why she's doing what she's doing, but I guess that's not the point

All I know, which is what many here have told me, I can't continue to do what I'm doing.

I have to dance around the child support hearing coming up but I need to change what I'm doing to create a severe emotional event for her.

So I think I've "reasoned" my way to changing my approach. Now I need to process all the input from here to get to what it will look like.

[sandi2]

My biggest fear of shifting away from my approach is that it will "validate" in her mind that she was right that it wouldn't last.

I think we have discussed this before. It is something that almost every LBS says. That fear holds them back for accomplishing what they could a lot sooner. As I told you last time, "now" is not the time to show her what a great husband you are. It is past that point. I want you to understand that it is not the "time frame" for proving you are not who she thought you were. Maybe, hopefully, someday you will get that chance......but it is not now. Can you understand that and can you accept it?

I've tried Dark/Dim (often backsliding into nice guy) and shifted into friendly but its still not making a difference

I believe one reason some LBH's get confused about the Dbing is b/c there are a couple of ways to go with this. One way is to drop the rope and go dark and allow time to heal the hurt. This allows the WAW to "miss" her H and the M. It is hard to do when there are children, but it can be done. In some cases (but not all) a LBH can be all friendly and nice when he communicates and sees the WAW. This is a painful process and takes a long time to win the trust of the WAW. This is not the way to go in every case. I belive you have been getting the two processes confused and trying to do both. One day you are all dark and call yourself dropping the rope (but you never have as of yet) and the next day you call yourself being a friendly "loving" husband.

With most WAW's the "lovingly" part does not work. With the typical WAW, the lovingly would turn her off. Although I do not think your wife is the typical WAW, I would not try to show her just how lovingly I could be b/c she would not receive it nor respect it the way you want. It is very difficult to try to explain and I think I've tried before, so I ask that you take the word of MWD and trust the DB techniques.

Answer me this, haven't you tried to show her in a loving way that you are no longer the H she claims has hurt her so badly? Yet, it has not worked during this time apart, so why can't you turn lose of that way of thinking and do what is suggested? I believe you come off as being a doormat in her eyes and she is feeding off the power of all this control.

I am a believer in "tough love" in a lot of cases. I believe that your stitch is one of those cases. However, as long as you believe it will do more harm than good.....it will not work. You must believe in the techniques you are applying.

My biggest fear of shifting away from my approach is that it will "validate" in her mind that she was right that it wouldn't last.

Any suggestions on how to mitigate that?

See my point? You are terrified that she will convince herself that what she thought about you is true. I think you have made this same statement before (or else I've just read it so many times from other posters), and you are still afraid. Why can't you be the best man you can be and if that does not meet with her approval, then too bad--b/c nothing would meet her approval at this time! Personally, I think that is where she is at right now. No man could not meet her expectations! She is into the "blame game" and nobody is going to take that away from her.

Right now she is in the last step, that a divorce is the constructive change (where I'm in despair) I need to pull her back into a signifcant emotional event.

You cannot pull her back into anything! You have no control over her. The only person you have control over is yourself.

I had tried to do that to show her that I can be a loving husband. In hopes of making her remember our dream of happily ever after to want it again. She still doesn't want it right now

That's what I've tried to tell you. So, will you believe me now and stop trying to be this "loving" H and start doing the other things we've discussed?

I don't know why she's doing what she's doing, but I guess that's not the point

You could drive yourself crazy in trying to figure all of that out. Just start with the fact that you are S and don't try to figure her out. She may not be typical, but she is still a WAW and most H's cannot figure them out.

I have to dance around the child support hearing coming up but I need to change what I'm doing to create a severe emotional event for her.

This makes twice you have referred to causing an emotional event for her. What are you talking about?

BTW, why did you bring up the subject of the child support when she was by your house and you were in the kitchen talking?

Check on you later,
Sandi

[confusedinpa]

I have to dance around the child support hearing coming up but I need to change what I'm doing to create a severe emotional event for her.

This makes twice you have referred to causing an emotional event for her. What are you talking about?

BTW, why did you bring up the subject of the child support when she was by your house and you were in the kitchen talking?

Sandi - what I mean by emotional event is something that will shake her up. Right now I feel she is just getting more comfortable with what is going on so I need to do something that will make her uncomfortable. I feel that when I was Dark/Dim and she had called when I was out with friends, it had made her uncomfortable to the point where I got the "have you given up?" phone call about 2 weeks after she moved out. This is when I slipped back into the nice guy mode and she felt back in control. So I need to get her back to a certain level of uncomfortableness.

I brought up the child support discussion on Sun as she was suppose to talk to her lawyer earlier that week so we can avoid spending a day in court (as well as paying $5K in legal fees for the day). So I wanted to know what was going on with that.

I'm still trying to get my head around what the shift from my current approach will look like. I don't want it to be the cold jerk (I don't think that's what your suggesting) but more of the "integrated man". I'll post more on that later to get some feedback

I had a good session with my therapist today about forgiving myself. We also talked about how I still lacked boundaries (part of my issue where being a nice guy is easier). She agreed with what you offered as well. In fact she asks me what you and others posted on this forum (funny as I want to start charging her for sharing that).

Thanks again for the continued support. I see I've been so afraid of making mistakes that I've been making even more mistakes.

[confusedinpa]

I'm still getting my head around what the "shift" in dynamic that I'm going to create will look like so I would be interested in getting some feedback:

Situation 1 - We have a family outing together (i.e. baseball, soccer games, etc.).

Me: Upbeat, positive, attentive and caring.

Situation 2 - Me/She saying goodnite to the boys

Me: Friendly, upbeat, positive hello and good nite. That's it. No chit chat of from me asking how things are going. If she ask how things are going with me, I would stay positvie and upbeat in my response (i.e. Great or Really good or Hectic as I've got a lot planned, etc.)

Situation 3 - She calls me for something tactical about the kids

Me: Polite and courteous, but strictly business

Situation 4 - She emails/text me about something tactical about the kids

Me: Wait at least 30 minutes to respond, but thank her for the FYI. If there is a specific question (i.e. what time to pick up, etc), I will respond just to the question, but just strictly business, no chit/chat.

Situation 5 - She emails/text me about chit chat/nonsense (i.e. saw this and thought it was funny, saw this movie and it made me cry, saw this on sale and thought you would like it, it's a bad day at work, etc.)

Me: No response unless there is a specific question.

Situation 6 - During a call, she gets emotional relative to our situation

Me: In as loving and caring way as possible say, "Wife, I can't keep doing this. As your husband I want to love and support you but it really hurts to do that since you've decided you no longer want to be my wife"

Situation 7 - If she asks why I'm so cold to her again

Me: In a loving and caring way "Wife, I will treat with respect as the mother of our kids, but it really hurts to do anything more than that since you've decided you no longer want to be my wife."

Any thoughts/comments?

[volleydog]

CIPA...you are more focused on your W than ever stop it. Stop trying to figure your a out. Your focus should be on you and your kids period. You are never going to get your M back by trying to figure her out and doing what you THINK she wants or needs.

[confusedinpa]

Volleydog,

I know I'm focused on my wife as I do love her and want to save our marriage relationship. However, I do know that is not what she wants now so there is nothing I can do to work on that marriage relationship.

When I outlined the various situations/responses, I was trying to make sure I understood what Sandi and other's have been telling me to break away from the "play nice loving" approach. I'm most particularly concerned with situation 1, 6 & 7. I think the others are pretty straight forward, but wanted to at least vet them out for understanding.

I do appreciate your frank feedback as I know it's just concern that I'm heading down the wrong path or focused on the wrong things.

The last 3 weeks have been extremely tough for me. It was actually tougher than the first 4 weeks than where she moved out and even tougher than when she hit me with the bomb on Jan 9th. I do believe that up till that point I had more hope but now there is so little.

I still believe and it is still what I want, but as you can see from my up/down posts, I'm really trying to sort things through in my head. My therapist has helped, as have my friends and the people on this board.

I also been posting a lot of my train of thought as my heart is telling me to pursue and win her heart back, but I know that I can not listen to my heart. If it was that simple, all the flowers I had brought her and the appologies and the romance and words of love I tried to pursue her with in the first few weeks after the bomb in Jan would have worked. It hadn't. Even a fool who is blinded by love sees that. Perhaps it hasn't been long enough or she wasn't ready for it as she needs to heal first. It doesn't matter. It didn't work and that's not what she wants right now.

I'm putting my faith that the DB/DR way is my last resort. I'm planning on rereading that book when I'm done with the N.U.T.S book.

Thanks for trying to keep my head focused.

[MrBond]

Your responses to Situations 1-4 seem okay.

Situation 5, when she's saying she's having a bad day at work, I think it's okay to sometimes acknowledge with "sorry to hear that". Just not every time it's brought up. You still want to be friendly to her to a point after all, not an @$$.

Situation 6 and 7. If she starts going off again, just say, I am sorry you feel that way. And that's it. Actually for Situation 7, I would have just laid into her and get that weight you have off your chest. How she keeps putting herself up as the victim, yet is the one who is controlling everything. But that's just me.

[confusedinpa]

Situation 6 and 7. If she starts going off again, just say, I am sorry you feel that way. And that's it. Actually for Situation 7, I would have just laid into her and get that weight you have off your chest. How she keeps putting herself up as the victim, yet is the one who is controlling everything. But that's just me.

Thanks for the input Stuck.

Would you suggest that I just hang up after I say "I'm sorry you feel that way"?

I just realized that it's getting late and it's past the time she had called in the past. The "call/text/email" traffic has really dropped off since she said last Sunday that she doesn't want to be my wife anymore (same as what she said in Jan). She had called last nite around 11:30 with a tactical issue. I kept it very business and to the point. I tried to be polite and courteous, but I suspect that she will still find something to take issue with (as Sandi pointed out, nothing I do will be right in her mind).

I know I can't call her. It's crazy since she has said a couple of times over the last couple of weeks that I should call her if I want to.

It doesn't make sense. She's a WAW but in such a non-typical WAW way. Maybe she is starting to be more typical......

I have to put my faith that the DB/DR way is the right way....

[MrBond]

"Would you suggest that I just hang up after I say "I'm sorry you feel that way"?"

No just say I'm sorry you feel that way, I've told you how I feel. And that's it.

Honestly, if it was me, I would have told her that I'm sorry you feel that way. And as you recall you mentioned that you had other issues that contributed to this that do not include me (her father, etc.) so I hope you get help in dealing with your issues so that you can be happy. Just be happy rather than blaming everyone for your unhappiness. You complain about what others have done to you, and you're right, those things happened. But you should start looking at the mirror before you start blaming others for how you feel now. You are out of the house as you wanted and you still get angry at me. For what? You have the ideal life you asked for now and you're still mad and unhappy. As much as you complain about being controlled by others, it is you who is the controlling one. You complain that our kids act up when they're with you, but rather than admitting that it's because of your decision, you blame it on them, etc. etc.

Actually that's similar to a conversation I had with my W while we were separated. After that, she was a whole lot nicer. She still plays the victim card "we shouldn't have gotten married", I should have left sooner, etc. But then I tell her if you're that unhappy and REALLY believe that it's the marriage that's made you unhappy, then leave.

She's still here and on pretty good terms...as a roommate.

[confusedinpa]

"Would you suggest that I just hang up after I say "I'm sorry you feel that way"?"

No just say I'm sorry you feel that way, I've told you how I feel. And that's it.

Honestly, if it was me, I would have told her that I'm sorry you feel that way. And as you recall you mentioned that you had other issues that contributed to this that do not include me (her father, etc.) so I hope you get help in dealing with your issues so that you can be happy. Just be happy rather than blaming everyone for your unhappiness. You complain about what others have done to you, and you're right, those things happened. But you should start looking at the mirror before you start blaming others for how you feel now. You are out of the house as you wanted and you still get angry at me. For what? You have the ideal life you asked for now and you're still mad and unhappy. As much as you complain about being controlled by others, it is you who is the controlling one. You complain that our kids act up when they're with you, but rather than admitting that it's because of your decision, you blame it on them, etc. etc.

Actually that's similar to a conversation I had with my W while we were separated. After that, she was a whole lot nicer. She still plays the victim card "we shouldn't have gotten married", I should have left sooner, etc. But then I tell her if you're that unhappy and REALLY believe that it's the marriage that's made you unhappy, then leave.

She's still here and on pretty good terms...as a roommate.

Stuck - I had that similar conversation with my wife when she first moved into the spare bedroom (about 6 weeks after dropping the bomb). She had gotten really upset about it and I know the way I handled it did not help my cause. While I may have gotten the message right, it was not delivered in a loving, compassionate way. I was upset/mad as she had surprised me by moving out (she said she needed some alone time to read so I gave it to her. I found out she moved into the spare bedroom when I went to bed). I was upset and hurt.

Now she throws up how I try to psychoanalyze her and be her therapist every time I mention about her needing to look upon herself.

I now we always want our situations to be different but you should be glad that she is still in the house, even as a roommate. I would take it like that right now. I knew it would be a lot harder to save the marriage once she moved out, but I didn't want her to feel trapped.

Periodically I do regret deciding to tell her that I love her enough to not stand in her way of doing what she feels she needs to do. I didn't want her to feel trapped in the house, as I thought that would not allow her to heal her hurt. When I do have regrets, I remind myself that she had scheduled an appointment to meet with a realtor to sell the house. I told her 2 days before the scheduled appointment. So all her energy was focused on getting out, not healing. I could have let her try to sell the house, and that would have kept her in the house at least another 6 months, but I felt that if I didn't save the marriage at that point, it would have been even more traumatic with the kids as then they wouldn't even have the only home that they have known as a stability point. A strategic decision. I hope I didn't sacrifice the war to win that one battle....

I think during the first four weeks of setting up her apartment, she used that as a distraction from starting any healing. Now I don't know what is stopping her. But that's not for me to worry about, I know that.

Anyway, I know that was a lot about her so I know I need to stop before the clubs and 2x4's come out.

Thanks for the input to make sure I understand what DB/DR Dark needs to look like.

Best of luck in your situation