Faith: I wish I could say the same, not entirely out of the blue for me.
My W is actually was the type of girl who would internalize things constantly, never saying her true feelings for months and months, until it would come to a head and she'd blow up, telling me she couldn't live this way any longer.
She should have been releasing it a little at a time instead of harboring, and resenting so much.
So I guess I had ample warning, every 4-5 months. I would always "own it", and try to correct the issues I had, But the true change did not happen until I was backed into a corner with something to lose...Pretty selfish I know, not willing to truly change until faced with losing everything, my largest act of selfishness thus far.
_________________________ Me 42 W 34 D 5 S 3 S 2 M 3 yrs T 8 yrs ILYBINILWY 2/23/09 same house, same bed no intimacy
Faith: I wish I could say the same, not entirely out of the blue for me.
My W is actually was the type of girl who would internalize things constantly, never saying her true feelings for months and months, until it would come to a head and she'd blow up, telling me she couldn't live this way any longer.
She should have been releasing it a little at a time instead of harboring, and resenting so much.
So I guess I had ample warning, every 4-5 months. I would always "own it", and try to correct the issues I had, But the true change did not happen until I was backed into a corner with something to lose...Pretty selfish I know, not willing to truly change until faced with losing everything, my largest act of selfishness thus far.
_________________________ Me 42 W 34 D 5 S 3 S 2 M 3 yrs T 8 yrs ILYBINILWY 2/23/09 same house, same bed no intimacy
"Just wanted to know if anyone else feels this way. I feel like I am swinging on a pendulum on a day to day basis. Today I hate him. I hate the man he is today."
This is a big part of DB'ing. It usually signals the start of a life changing event. You could label it "flip-flopping" or "on the fence". To me it just shows that you are very likely focused on the wrong things in life. I will also tell you that he is most likely doing the exact same thing as you.. but there are way different "reasons" for him.
"Does H love me? He doesn’t seem to."
I question the thought of whether you think he does not love you.
"Sometimes I feel like I am just holding onto a memory. A memory that's slowly fading away. Why?"
Lets just say for "the devils" sake. He is not holding onto the "memory". You can't discount what he feels... or where he is. He has every reason just like you to feel the way he does. Ask yourself.. why does this feel "surprising". Why does this catch you off guard?
"I just look at my H & think - why can't you just let go of whatever issues you have with me, wipe the slate clean & I'll do the same for you and let's move forward????"
The simple answer to this is that he has tried. In his mind.. he has "done it all" with no response from you.
There is a lot that goes into that simple answer from me.
"And let me just tell you this, I am 34 years old. Young enough that starting over in life wouldn't be too terrible."
"Here is H's problems with me: He thinks I am too controlling He thinks I talk down to him & criticize him He thinks I give him guilt trips He thinks I am cold & mean He feels his opinions never mattered"
I would suspect he finds you "over the top". How are you addressing these things? Explain to me your early "Life" when things were good.
"My biggest questions are the GAL I addressed previously & questions about physical touch."
GAL can be very subjective. The idea behind GAL is to pull your mind out of the "stitch". It (GAL) gives you downtime of not thinking about all that is going on around you.
Don't expect PT right now.
"Thanks for your suggestions. I have read that book & mine is actually quality time. I think that is part of the reason I have been viewed as controlling & giving him guilt trips - because I wanted to be together. I just want physical touch now because he always was so affectionate before...much more than me...I just think it would be my way of gauging that he was making a big step. And if I got a big step, I could be more certain about our future which I feel is completely in limbo right now.
I have a hard time figuring out what H's love language is...as affectionate as he was, he always did acts of service for me (even though that wasn't mine)...so sometimes I think you do for others what you would like them to do for you. The other one it may be is words of affirmation."
This proves the point of we don't know what we think we know.
LL (Love Languages) can be hard to figure out even for one's self.
I want you to really think hard and list one for him.. and one for you. I want you to think about just 1 for each of you right now to center the conversation.
Now I skimmed thru most of your posts.. and I likely missed something. If you could can you give me a "overview" of where and what is going on right now?
No matter what is going on right now the best thing I can tell you is to GAL (Find a distraction) and pick your battles.
I will read thru the rest of the posts...
Relax Eat Think Act normal React.. Smartly. Do something different. Emulate. Do Work.
Forrest - I appreciate your time reading thru my scenario:
I question the thought of whether you think he does not love you.
I don't understand what you mean by this quote above.
"I just look at my H & think - why can't you just let go of whatever issues you have with me, wipe the slate clean & I'll do the same for you and let's move forward????"
The simple answer to this is that he has tried. In his mind.. he has "done it all" with no response from you. "
If he did this it would have been nice to have been told!
So why have you not done "it" yet?
Because I made a vow that I take seriously. Because we have children that I don't want to see go thru a divorce.
Overview of sitch:
H says I was too controlling - examples were me being resentful that he had a job w/lot of travel & entertaining clients. I was working full time & taking care of the kids 1 & 2 at the time. We would talk on the phone at night & I would say - what are you doing right now? He would say - getting ready to take clients to a steakhouse. I would say - Must be nice! (sarcastically). There was a reorg at his job & his new boss was a micro manager which he hated so I encouraged him to quit & work at my company. I always referred to him as my partner, but about 3 months ago we were at a friend's house & he said - no she's my boss (very resentfully). So I know it must have bothered him. When he was withdrawing from me, I encouraged him to go back to corporate america, which he started a new job 2 months ago.
He loved playing baseball & this was another major source of contention. My job requires me to work weekends & he would be off at double headers that would take 8 hours out of a weekend day (not to mention if the team wanted to go out for beers afterwards), while I was watching the kids once again, after he had traveled all week. I resented this. Plus I worked weekends so if someone called me & needed something, I was the one left scrambling with a 1 & 2 year old. When he came to work w/me, he quit baseball. He resents me for this. When we have rehashed the situation, he says he wished I would have just said - we'll find a way to make this work. Bottom line in my interpretation is wishing I would have been supportive. I told him to play again this season & I will never complain once. He is & I haven't.
I have bent on things for him in the past too, though. Unlike him, I never kept score. I only went back & thought of these things since he dropped the bomb bc I was trying to analyze if things were always just about me.
He thinks I always have to have my way - that's another thing he has said.
Right now: I have stopped complaining about him wanting to do things on his own. Giving him space. No R talk. I am watching my tone - he always says it's not what I say but how I say it.
The positives: 1. Still in same bed 2. At home 3. Goes to MC 4. Says he is noticing me making changes & it is nice 5. Does homework from MC 6. Has said he appreciates me "trying" 7. Communicates w/me about where he is going & calls/emails me throughout the day - for instance on Fri said he might go out for some beers w/a friend after work. Calls later on to tell me who he is going with & where. Texts me later to saying they are leaving X establishment to go to Y establishment. 8. At MC 2 weeks ago said he takes 50% of the blame. MC says what are you doing to own your 50%? H says - coming here & trying to take more of an interest in what she is doing. He never said he was willing to "try" to do anything until this point.
The negatives: 1. No talk of future - limboland 2. No physical touch 3. No spending time together (outside of watching tv in the evenings)
I guess when things were better, we were more carefree. We didn't have so many responsibilities. If he wanted to do something, he did it. I wanted to do something, I did it.
LL - for him words of affirmation will be my focus. For me quality time. What do you mean by centering the conversation? Please give me suggestions!
Me 36, Him 33 M 11yrs, T 15yrs S 8, D 7 ILYBINILWY - 1/09 H moves out 10/09 D to be final SOON I HOPE!
He thinks I always have to have my way - that's another thing he has said.
Right now: I have stopped complaining about him wanting to do things on his own. Giving him space. No R talk. I am watching my tone - he always says it's not what I say but how I say it.
The positives: 1. Still in same bed 2. At home 3. Goes to MC 4. Says he is noticing me making changes & it is nice 5. Does homework from MC 6. Has said he appreciates me "trying" 7. Communicates w/me about where he is going & calls/emails me throughout the day - for instance on Fri said he might go out for some beers w/a friend after work. Calls later on to tell me who he is going with & where. Texts me later to saying they are leaving X establishment to go to Y establishment. 8. At MC 2 weeks ago said he takes 50% of the blame. MC says what are you doing to own your 50%? H says - coming here & trying to take more of an interest in what she is doing. He never said he was willing to "try" to do anything until this point.
The negatives: 1. No talk of future - limboland 2. No physical touch 3. No spending time together (outside of watching tv in the evenings)
I guess when things were better, we were more carefree. We didn't have so many responsibilities. If he wanted to do something, he did it. I wanted to do something, I did it.
LL - for him words of affirmation will be my focus. For me quality time. What do you mean by centering the conversation? Please give me suggestions!
Hopeful......you know, us Virginians need to stick together....LOL
So what are you doing about those things? It has been said to NOT believe anything you hear, but one does have to put some creedence in the complaints. Although they are not entirely true, they are contributors to the breakdown of things.
I did not think I was controlling until I read about controlling behaviours. I was shocked at how controlling I really was...More from being critical than anything.
Control can come from anything that makes the other person"s sense of themselves feel threatened.
I.E. Walking by something that they are cooking. taste it and adding salt without asking.... That is criticism . Whather we think that at the time is irrelevant. It is what they sense as being the problem.
It's good to list your positives and negatives....but keep them in check for yourself. Expectations can kill YOU, and I mean both positive and negative ones...
I'm going to put up something that I posted last week over in MLC. It is a compiled list of things that helped me get through the early stages of this.....
Maybe some of this can help explain to you, and hopefully others can get something from it too....
I had actually found a few different articles that got me through the toughest part of this.....understanding.
A few things pasted together .....
Now there are two kinds of divorce that happen, sort of at the same time. One is the legal divorce, and the other one is the emotional divorce.
We get the two confused.
We think we're going to stop the emotional divorce by stopping the legal divorce. The more you try to stop the legal side of divorce, the more rebellious he or she feels.
The more you use pressure, the less they see your inner beauty and your charm.
Everybody thinks, professionals and non-professionals alike, they say to have a happy marriage or a happy relationship, you have to work at it.
But it's the working that makes it not work right now.
When you criticize, you're working at improving your mate.
When you complain to your lover, you're working at improving them.
When you argue, you're working at improving them.
When you try to reason with them.
When you tell them how much you love them.
Both when you're reasoning and when you're telling them how much you love them, you are trying to change them. You are working at changing them. And it's that working at changing them, that is the only problem.
Proof? You want proof?
Stop all of that, and watch the relationship get better.
Stop all of that working. Allow and accept, one hundred percent, whatever your mate thinks, feels, or does is perfectly okay.
It's perfectly okay.
And watch them improve themselves.
Their negative feelings towards you will weaken rapidly, because their negative feeling needs something in you to fight with. And when you sincerely see what's on their side, when you sincerely agree with them, and when you lovingly and sincerely go one hundred percent totally, instantly, and happily your mate's way, when you do that there's nothing for their negative feeling to build on.
You have put the white flag up.
You've thrown your gun down.
That forces them to do the same thing. They cannot shoot you when you have no gun. When you're not defending yourself, THEY want to defend you.
It's not normal to not defend yourself, but it is healthy.
Agree with them.
Do not disagree at all.
It's not to your advantage. ....Her negative or his negative attitudes towards you are being supported by you communicating what you want.
Every time you say to them, "But, I love you," you are saying, "but I want something different than what you want. You want to pull away, but I want you to come closer. I don't really care what you want. It's what I want that's important."
Lots of times men tell their wives, "I've changed. I've changed. Let's get back together. I've changed."
I tell the husbands that "Every time you say, 'I've changed,' you're communicating to her that you have not changed."
"Really? Why is that? How is that? I don't understand that."
"Of course, you don't understand. But what's your motivation? Why are you telling him or her how you've changed? What's your purpose? Isn't it to get your way?"
"Yeah, I want her back."
"That's your way. It's not her way, right now. She said she may consider it later, maybe, but not right now. And every time you say, 'I've changed,' you're saying, 'Give me my way! Give me my way! Give me my way! What I want is more important than what you want. I don't give a hoot what you want."
And subconsciously, she says, "He hasn't changed. He's still the neurotic, selfish, pressuring guy he always was. There's no way I'm going to go back to him, or feel positive to him as long as he is this way."
I really appreciate your post & yes, Virginians do need to stick together!
I agree with everything. Actions speak louder than words so I don't need to point out my changes. He will eventually see the 180s. Like I said above, he has acknowledged in MC some changes & said they were nice. We also have homework for MC where we name something we appreciate about our spouse every night. Last week when he had to work late, he said he appreciated the fact that I didn't get upset that he had to work late. That tells me that HE THOUGHT I WOULD be upset. Yes! A 180 that was not only acknowledged, but appreciated
Me 36, Him 33 M 11yrs, T 15yrs S 8, D 7 ILYBINILWY - 1/09 H moves out 10/09 D to be final SOON I HOPE!
I really appreciate your post & yes, Virginians do need to stick together!
I agree with everything. Actions speak louder than words so I don't need to point out my changes. He will eventually see the 180s. Like I said above, he has acknowledged in MC some changes & said they were nice. We also have homework for MC where we name something we appreciate about our spouse every night. Last week when he had to work late, he said he appreciated the fact that I didn't get upset that he had to work late. That tells me that HE THOUGHT I WOULD be upset. Yes! A 180 that was not only acknowledged, but appreciated
Good for you.....180's are great huh ?
Now.....When you can get to the point where you do them because they are a part of you instead of expecting a reaction from him.....Then you are on your way....
Changes and 180's have to be about you becoming you, and NOT used as a ploy or for reaction from you spouse...
He thinks I always have to have my way - that's another thing he has said.
Right now: I have stopped complaining about him wanting to do things on his own. Giving him space. No R talk. I am watching my tone - he always says it's not what I say but how I say it.
The positives: 1. Still in same bed 2. At home 3. Goes to MC 4. Says he is noticing me making changes & it is nice 5. Does homework from MC 6. Has said he appreciates me "trying" 7. Communicates w/me about where he is going & calls/emails me throughout the day - for instance on Fri said he might go out for some beers w/a friend after work. Calls later on to tell me who he is going with & where. Texts me later to saying they are leaving X establishment to go to Y establishment. 8. At MC 2 weeks ago said he takes 50% of the blame. MC says what are you doing to own your 50%? H says - coming here & trying to take more of an interest in what she is doing. He never said he was willing to "try" to do anything until this point.
The negatives: 1. No talk of future - limboland 2. No physical touch 3. No spending time together (outside of watching tv in the evenings)
I guess when things were better, we were more carefree. We didn't have so many responsibilities. If he wanted to do something, he did it. I wanted to do something, I did it.
LL - for him words of affirmation will be my focus. For me quality time. What do you mean by centering the conversation? Please give me suggestions!
Hopeful......you know, us Virginians need to stick together....LOL
So what are you doing about those things? It has been said to NOT believe anything you hear, but one does have to put some creedence in the complaints. Although they are not entirely true, they are contributors to the breakdown of things.
I did not think I was controlling until I read about controlling behaviours. I was shocked at how controlling I really was...More from being critical than anything.
Control can come from anything that makes the other person"s sense of themselves feel threatened.
I.E. Walking by something that they are cooking. taste it and adding salt without asking.... That is criticism . Whather we think that at the time is irrelevant. It is what they sense as being the problem.
It's good to list your positives and negatives....but keep them in check for yourself. Expectations can kill YOU, and I mean both positive and negative ones...
I'm going to put up something that I posted last week over in MLC. It is a compiled list of things that helped me get through the early stages of this.....
Maybe some of this can help explain to you, and hopefully others can get something from it too....
I had actually found a few different articles that got me through the toughest part of this.....understanding.
A few things pasted together .....
Now there are two kinds of divorce that happen, sort of at the same time. One is the legal divorce, and the other one is the emotional divorce.
We get the two confused.
We think we're going to stop the emotional divorce by stopping the legal divorce. The more you try to stop the legal side of divorce, the more rebellious he or she feels.
The more you use pressure, the less they see your inner beauty and your charm.
Everybody thinks, professionals and non-professionals alike, they say to have a happy marriage or a happy relationship, you have to work at it.
But it's the working that makes it not work right now.
When you criticize, you're working at improving your mate.
When you complain to your lover, you're working at improving them.
When you argue, you're working at improving them.
When you try to reason with them.
When you tell them how much you love them.
Both when you're reasoning and when you're telling them how much you love them, you are trying to change them. You are working at changing them. And it's that working at changing them, that is the only problem.
Proof? You want proof?
Stop all of that, and watch the relationship get better.
Stop all of that working. Allow and accept, one hundred percent, whatever your mate thinks, feels, or does is perfectly okay.
It's perfectly okay.
And watch them improve themselves.
Their negative feelings towards you will weaken rapidly, because their negative feeling needs something in you to fight with. And when you sincerely see what's on their side, when you sincerely agree with them, and when you lovingly and sincerely go one hundred percent totally, instantly, and happily your mate's way, when you do that there's nothing for their negative feeling to build on.
You have put the white flag up.
You've thrown your gun down.
That forces them to do the same thing. They cannot shoot you when you have no gun. When you're not defending yourself, THEY want to defend you.
It's not normal to not defend yourself, but it is healthy.
Agree with them.
Do not disagree at all.
It's not to your advantage. ....Her negative or his negative attitudes towards you are being supported by you communicating what you want.
Every time you say to them, "But, I love you," you are saying, "but I want something different than what you want. You want to pull away, but I want you to come closer. I don't really care what you want. It's what I want that's important."
Lots of times men tell their wives, "I've changed. I've changed. Let's get back together. I've changed."
I tell the husbands that "Every time you say, 'I've changed,' you're communicating to her that you have not changed."
"Really? Why is that? How is that? I don't understand that."
"Of course, you don't understand. But what's your motivation? Why are you telling him or her how you've changed? What's your purpose? Isn't it to get your way?"
"Yeah, I want her back."
"That's your way. It's not her way, right now. She said she may consider it later, maybe, but not right now. And every time you say, 'I've changed,' you're saying, 'Give me my way! Give me my way! Give me my way! What I want is more important than what you want. I don't give a hoot what you want."
And subconsciously, she says, "He hasn't changed. He's still the neurotic, selfish, pressuring guy he always was. There's no way I'm going to go back to him, or feel positive to him as long as he is this way."
I want to needlepoint this and put it in front of me where I can look at it all the time
Me - 30, H - 32 T - 10, M - 6, D - 1 DD#1 - 4, DD#2 - 2 on/off OW 4/09 - sometime Summer 2010 (Told me about OW 4/10) Separated 6/11/09, divorced 8/4/10, trying again 9/2011
