WAW - Very confused and devastated - pt 10

[theroadback]

no offence taken .... I see your point but look at what she has said to him, she moved out and filed for D!! I think it is perfectly fine for him to see other people, date, cheat, what ever you what to call it at this point.

What is the marridge here? where is it? just a legal paper at this point? plus dating may even save it in the end.

So divorce is only when its legal? I think divorce in the heart over rides the legal issue.

I felt like I was divorced when my wife withdrew all affection and love from me and took off her ring. I felt divorced no matter what the paperwork said.

On the other hand I understand and respect other opinions on this issue.

[Coach]

So divorce is only when its legal? I think divorce in the heart over rides the legal issue.

Try that one out with the judge or at the Pearly Gates.

My M is a sacred covenant between me and my wife. Feelings can change but your beliefs and values you need to have squared away.

[PMA_Baby!]

"I felt like I was divorced when my wife withdrew all affection and love from me and took off her ring. I felt divorced no matter what the paperwork said."

I felt the same way. Especially with the OM involved. I lasted a year before I started making new friends. My ego wasn't strong enough.

PMA

[theroadback]

sacred covenant.....so .....uh.. that is what you think cnpa shares with his wife right now? in what way?

I dont want to get into a debate aboth this like I said I respect other opinions about this.

[theroadback]

"I felt the same way. Especially with the OM involved. I lasted a year before I started making new friends. My ego wasn't strong enough."

Can I ask what your wifes reaction was to the "new friends"

[PMA_Baby!]

Well she ofcourse acted like it didnt bother her, but she had looked up the girls phone on our computer. hmmm. I was done playing detective anyway. Who needs that?Still it wasn't enough for her to face her demons and come back to earth.

They say only 15% of people are willing to look within to find happiness. We should call our group the 15% club.

PMA

[theroadback]

For the record I do have a few freinds. I guess you can call them ea's if you will. For some reason something I will absolutly not allow is a pa of anykind.

everyone tells me I should and that they would not blame me but I cant have a pa no way... screwed up code I have, ok with ea's but not pa's...

I could hear her now....my husband slept with another woman how dare he!!...Why would he do that to you, where you not sleeping with him? no I did not sleep with for two years but how dare he!!.......oh....

[antlers]

How many times in our lives have we said something that we didn't mean because we were hurt or angry? How many times have we done something because we were hurt or angry? A large percentage of divorces that are filed are NEVER finalized!

I think some people have the ability to justify their actions...regardless of how wrong their actions are! I'm stating my opinions here. A marriage license is just a piece of paper also...if one chooses to look at it that way! CIPA is still legally married! If he's not free to marry...then he's not free to date! Again, that's my opinion. Hard to see how violating a marriage vow might 'save' the marriage!

Yeah...a 'divorce' is a legal thing. Just because one spouse is making a mistake doesn't justify the other spouse making a mistake too! Sandi made a good analogy comparing a WAS to someone who had a disease! How would you treat your spouse if they had a disease? How valuable is this woman to you? They are not thinking right, they are confused, they are 'in the fog' right now. Someone has to be strong and thinking right...it take a strong man to hang in there and do what's honorable and noble and try his best to save his marriage.

It's not a 50-50 thing...especially under these circumstances! It's more like a 99-1 thing...with us putting forth 99% of the effort! If she's worth it to you...you'll do it. I don't feel divorced right now, even though she's done all of the things you mentioned, and CIPA probably doesn't either. I'm separated, as is CIPA. These are my opinions, and it's how I feel about it.

But, I respect your opinions on this issue, especially in regards to your own situation.

[sandi2]

Good morning "Confused".......

You sound sooooo much better. I am very relieved to hear some things you are saying. I think when you decided to stop taking all the blame for the stitch and giving yourself daily beatings, then you were able to see more clearly what she was really doing. Then, the resentment and anger started to set in. That is okay. I think it is a stage you have to enter and frankly, I think it is high time you got angry!

Yes, you have understood (I think) what my gut feelings are about her. I think she is malnipulative and uses her past as her main tool in trying to control you. I agree with a lot of what "theroadback" said on that subject.

You said you wanted to show her that you still love her and you wanted to stand for your M. You aren't sure how to do that with actions and not words. However this quote said it very well:

Hence, I'm trying to show her that I really do love her while I am prepared for a life without her.

As you have time, you can figure out how to "show" her without words and getting a personal life while you are dropping the rope and moving forward may sound as if you are not loving her or standing for your M, but you can. GAL and dropping the rope does not change your beliefs and your standards. It does not change your desires. However, you cannot continue doing what clearly was not working! I think you have finally seen that! Time for a new plan of action. She must reap what she is sowing and let her suffer the consequenses of her decisions. That may be hard for you to be on the side-lines while she does that and you may be tempted to run in to rescue her. DON'T DO IT! She may call and cry and tell you more of the same old crap and how horrible the kids are treating her and how bad she has it. Don't rescue her. If you do......everything will be lost! She must suffer what she alone decided for this family. Don't make things easy for her in your desire to get the family together. Go about living your life and enjoying each day without all her interference. Do not stay on that phone listening to her. As I told you before, tell her you are busy and have to go, or that you aren't going to listen to the same replay of what you have already heard. She really must find out that she cannot control you and your life any longer before she will take notice and want to change what she is doing. Do you see that? As Theroadback said, she has all the power and is loving it. Don't fall for her dramatic scenes.

I do encouage you to get more involved in things besides the time you have with your boys. You need activities and time with friends. This leads me to what Theroadback said about dating other women. I do not agree that you need to do this now. Fist of all, you are too vulnerable and I strongly believe it would add a tremdous amount of confusion to your stitch. You certainly don't need another female to deal with. Too many women are out there looking for a R with a man. Being in your emotional state with your W only makes you that vulnerable to the ego food from another woman. Look at what happen to me! I fell for all that ego food from OM. I wanted to feel my self-esteem built up, also. Of course it would feel nice for a female to flirt and tell you what a hunk you are and make you feel like God's gift to the female gender. Believe me.....there are millions of women on the prowl looking for the next sucker. A "rebound" R with another woman would be soooo easy right now. Why would you put yourself in that position? Don't you have enough problems? I even tell people they are taking a chance when they go to the bar scenes where single people, or M people looking to cheat, hang out trying to snare somebody. The temptation is there waiting for somebody to take the bait. The hook is hidden beneath all the phoney games people play with each other when at these places. Too many lives have been ruined by one night of lonliness with the opposite sex. Oh, sure, I know somebody can say that you can date and not have sex with them. You can just go out to dinner with them, etc. PLEASE!!! It is very, very rare that that happens b/c you have been in a MR and you miss that. You miss the intimacy you had and your body certainly misses the sex. So, I don't want anyone pretending that it is "only dinner". I think as long as you are wanting to reunite with your wife, then you sure don't need to keep one on one company with any female.....even "just a friend" female. Being in a safe group of old friends is probably the best way to go. Even then, you have to be on guard b/c there is too much hanky/panky going on these days. Always seems to be somebody who would gladly spend the night or have a "quickie". So, stay safe and pick your places and your company wisely. You don't want another heartbreak on top of this one. If you have some buddies that you can spend some time with......I would encouage you to do that. You need fun times.....not talking about the MR. You need a break from all the drama. Is there any particual activity that you use to like before you were M? Maybe you have wanted to try something new? This is your time for that.

Hope you understand what I said about moving on with your life (dropping the rope) and yet not throwing away the possibility that some day your W may get her head straighten out and things could work out. You just don't allow that desire or hope to dictate your life any longer. You must move forward.

It would need to be a new MR and not this old one you had. That was unhealthy and she sure needs a lot of healing and make a lot of changes before entering into a new R with her.

I think that the general advice from your posters have mainly said the same thing (except for the dating). People have their own style and words, but I have read it and it sounds as if you are receiving the same encouragement to move ahead and drop the rope. Give her time and space and make her miss you. You asked if "dark" could do that and could it be attractive. OH YES!! Very much so! How can she miss something that is available whenever she wants it? You become attractive when she thinks she can't have you. That is why you do not discuss your "plans" of going dark or dropping the rope and moving forward. You don't tell her this......you just do it. If you tell her what your plan of action is.....that would be the same as showing the opposing team your game plan. Not a smart thing to do, right? So, be careful in those phone conversations b/c she is still pulling you into R talks.

Okay, must go for now. Talk later.

Sandi

[confusedinpa]

BTW just to let you know where I am coming from. As I have said before I have been going through the same issue as you (wife felt neglected and unloved among other issues) for over two years. I think I have tried a lot of different approaches, not all but allot.

Now that I feel detached, really detached, and she sees it, I feel that she is actually starting to pursue a little, and its only been a few weeks!!

We got into a pretty bad fight the other day and not once did I hear the D word. She knows I don’t care anymore about D anymore, she cant use that card.

Years of nothing, well some half hearted trying on her part but not like what I am seeing now.

Going to keep it up….strange saying that, because I don’t need to keep anything up nor do I need do anything. Because I am…….I am detached naturally… feel’s pretty cool actually …

You know what's interesting to note, when I was more Dark/Dim, even though she complained about how cold/mean I was, she called/text/emailed me almost everyday. It was mostly tactical stuff related to the kids, but the calls were usually chit chat type stuff with a few very emotional calls.

This week (Mon - Weds) I tried the approach of being friendly when she calls (before I would be very short and not say much) where I would ask how she was doing and stuff like that. Weds nite was the last time she called. I was supportive, friendly and caring during her call (she was complaining about how the kids were behaving at her place). I did suggest it may be related to the situation, but she didn't agree at all (big surprise). That was the last time I heard from her. Now many will say not hearing from a WAW in 1.5 days is not a big deal, but it's significant to me since we've had contact almost every day since she moved out.

I'm sure that is a big reason why she hadn't missed me.

Now I'm back to Dark/Dim, so I'm not calling (I didn't call Mon - Weds, she still initiated contact). I'll let her initiate it, even though she has told me a few times over the last 2 weeks, that if I want to call her, I should. She said if I had something on my mind, I should just call her.

Very confusing, but I'm not calling. Maybe this is childish or resentful, but it feels like the right thing to do considering how after I tried being friendly on the calls this week, she stopped. Coincidence? Don't know.

Sigh. Going on week 7 since she left.