WAW - Very confused and devastated - pt 10

[aliveandkicking]

She doesn't want that. I had been struggling with do I have the strenght and self confidence to love her enough so I can be a friend.

I hope you will be kind to yourself and take this day by day. Friends have boundaries too. Friends sometimes need space or to do their own thing. You will find a groove that works for you. You are a stand-up guy for being here and doing the work you're doing. That makes you really a commodity as a friend and as a spouse in the future...

[confusedinpa]

She doesn't want that. I had been struggling with do I have the strenght and self confidence to love her enough so I can be a friend.

I hope you will be kind to yourself and take this day by day. Friends have boundaries too. Friends sometimes need space or to do their own thing. You will find a groove that works for you. You are a stand-up guy for being here and doing the work you're doing. That makes you really a commodity as a friend and as a spouse in the future...

Aliveandkicking,

Thank you for the encouragement and kind words. I do have my ups and downs - mostly downs over the past couple of days. I'm trying to pick myself up.

I will be seeing my wife tonite as my 3 year old has baseball. Last week she didn't show up (chiropractor appointment). I think she feels likes she has to be there since she has the kids tonite. So I need to shift into my postive, upbeat, attentive, loving CIPA as we will be having dinner together at the park before baseball starts. I'm going to pick up both of the boys and she will be picking up the food (I actually just got off the phone with her).

I won't have to fake the positive attitude as I will be seeing my boys tonite! Haven't seen then in since Sunday morning. I will enjoy the moments and not let myself be dragged down knowing that they will be going to her place tonite after baseball.

Thanks again

[Kittyfish]

CIPA,

I can tell in your posts that you're really sorry for the things you did to your wife.

I understand that she is struggling with past hurts- but truly she's upset because once on a ski trip they ignored her? And she has carried that around for years??? WOW- that's kind of dramatic. Everyone's suffering is different though I guess. I can see how seeing her dad cheat on her mom could have affected her.

I actually have gotten help. I'm mildly bipolar type II- which is the lesser of the two- and I can pinpoint alot of my actions towards that. I take a very lose dose of mood stabilizer- and I know I always will have to- and I'm cool with that. For me it's like diabetes or some other kind of illness.

All of the work that you're doing on yourself right now will benefit you later on down the line. Whether or not you're with her or not. I know this- because as I mentioned in one of my earlier posts- my current husband was the betrayed spouse in his marriage. He went to counseling alone and worked on his issues and I'm so glad that he did- because he gets it- he really does. And I have reaped the rewards of him doing that.

Little things like looking your woman in the eye when she talks to you can go a long way.

[MrBond]

Hi Kittyfish,

You've got some great insight. I'd appreciate if you could stop by my sitch later to let me know your thoughts.

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1777634#Post1777634

Thanks!

[Coach]

So in other words, there needs to be some dialog/communication to set what the expectations are from both people to create the partnership. Or perhaps that is the part of what KittyFish wrote of taking the time to listen and to intimately know the other.

What would you be doing for your W if she had the M she needs?

She has the answer your job is to find out.

[confusedinpa]

This is whole situation blows.

Baseball went pretty well tonite. Kids had fun. I had fun. My wife kept complaining how cold it was, I had brought an extra sweatshirt for her because I knew it was going to be cold so I gave it to her. We chatted lightly but I could get a sense she didn't really want to talk/chat. I didn't press her. I played with the boys until baseball started and would just say a few words to her to try and keep her engaged.

Baseball started and it was a riot - 3 & 4 year olds playing. She laughed and really seemed to enjoy herself. We were standing close to each other and a few times she leaned very close to me to talk. Our 7 year old kept trying to squeeze in between us or get/keep her attention. I didn't let it bother me (like it did a few weeks ago). He was just being a 7 year old boy trying to get his parents attention as they were paying attention to his 3 year old brother's baseball game.

Towards the end of the game, I noticed that she was standing a little further away. Not sure what happened or changed. I then just focused on my 7 year old and the baseball game. I didn't let it phase me nor change how much fun I was having watching the game (it was like watching the 3 stooges).

Anyway, when the game was over, the coach reminded us tonite was the last game (oh crap - I didn't know) so there goes seeing my wife for dinner at least once a week. My wife asked when my 7 year old started soccer - I said not for 2-3 weeks and then it would be Tues and Thurs nites. So there is going to be a 2-3 week gap. It got me down a little bit, but oh well. What can I expect, we're seperated now and marching along towards a divorce. I can't let a lull in the kids activities that brings us together get me down.

What did get me down was at the end of the nite, the boys were suppose to go back to her place (we alternate Weds). My 3 year old started freaking out that he wanted to go home with daddy. I saw my wife struggling to get him seated and buckled in. I didn't want my 3 year old to think that I was abandoning him so I went back to her truck. I could see she was on the verge of tears. I just touched her back slightly and said gently, that I can take of this (in hindsight I should have asked if I could help or was there anything that she would like me to do, but oh well, I'll have to remember next time).

I gave my 3 year old a hug to calm him and told him that mommy and daddy loves him very much and mommy wants to spend some time with him too. Then my 7 year old ask my wife why she was making sad faces. I just shot him a look to be quiet, but I could see he was sad and on the verge of tears as well. I just gave him a hug and kiss as well. I then tried to buckle in my 3 year old but he kept stressing about coming home.

I had almost asked my wife it that was ok, but thought that would have been wrong as it would have put her in the "bad guy" position. I just told my boys that I will call them tonite to say good nite and that we will do something special when they come home tomorrow. I love them very much but mommy needs to spend time with you too.

I got my 3 year old buckled and I turned to my wife and said good bye. I think she was trying to hide the fact that she was upset/crying from me.

This is really crap. It is really hurting our boys. She must see that. Her "fantasy" that the boys will be fine if we divorce must be blowing up in her face. I am trying to be her friend. I was very upbeat, positive, attentive and caring tonite. I am doing whatever I can do to be a better person.

All she is doing is clinging to the hurt in the past and destroying everything that we had. I know part of it is that she doesn't see what we had as of any value. I do know she loves the boys and does not want to hurt them. But that's not the reason why I want her to stay in the marriage. That's not the marriage I want.

This is real crap. I don't know what to do. It's not right what's happening. I hate what I had done to get us to this point. I have learned my lesson and will continue to learn from it for the rest of my life. The boys are suffering and will continue to suffer from this for the rest of their lives.

I love my wife and am geniuinely sorry for what I've done to make her feel unloved/unlovable. I'm an committed to working on myself to be a better person so that I will enjoy life and make the people around me feel loved and give myself to them. I know this will result in a better me for me and my boys. Why isn't that good enough to save this marriage?

ARGH!!!!

[confusedinpa]

CIPA,

I can tell in your posts that you're really sorry for the things you did to your wife.

I understand that she is struggling with past hurts- but truly she's upset because once on a ski trip they ignored her? And she has carried that around for years??? WOW- that's kind of dramatic. Everyone's suffering is different though I guess. I can see how seeing her dad cheat on her mom could have affected her.

I actually have gotten help. I'm mildly bipolar type II- which is the lesser of the two- and I can pinpoint alot of my actions towards that. I take a very lose dose of mood stabilizer- and I know I always will have to- and I'm cool with that. For me it's like diabetes or some other kind of illness.

All of the work that you're doing on yourself right now will benefit you later on down the line. Whether or not you're with her or not. I know this- because as I mentioned in one of my earlier posts- my current husband was the betrayed spouse in his marriage. He went to counseling alone and worked on his issues and I'm so glad that he did- because he gets it- he really does. And I have reaped the rewards of him doing that.

Little things like looking your woman in the eye when she talks to you can go a long way.

Kittyfish,

I am very sorry for how I made my wife feel. I will live with the "guilt" for the rest of my life, whether my wife comes back or not. I couldn't believe that I had made her feel that way. But I can't change the past and realize that all I can do is live now and look forward into the future.

I think she holds onto the hurt from her sister as her sister is very different from her so I suspect that she is somewhat envious of how her sister is - very carefree, fun loving, extroverted/social and isn't overweight. My wife tries to be but I could see that she is uncomfortable doing that (I really noticed the first time that I took her to meet my friends in Florida, then a later trip to meet my friends in NYC). She has to be really "pulled in and hugged" for a while with a group before she feels comfortable. I do know that her sister doesn't try to make her feel "invited" and connected. The same with her dad. Neither one had made the effort to really change to make her feel connected.

I do agree that she needs help. More help than I am capable of giving, even if she wanted it from me. What made you decide to get help? It sounds like it really helped you and your current husband had made the changed so I'm glad to hear that you are in a happy/rewarding relationship. It gives me some hope that my future is doomed to be days of saddness.....

Is there anything that you think I could do to try and steer my wife to getting help?

[MrBond]

"I hate what I had done to get us to this point. I have learned my lesson and will continue to learn from it for the rest of my life."

Have you read anything that we've posted here? Stop blaming yourself. Your W is clinging to a "hurt" which, yes, is pretty dramatic. You and her can't live in the past. You're just frustrated and the main reason is because 1) you believe all the self-serving crap she's been dishing on you and 2) you haven't forgiven yourself.

Well M is a two-way street. Both of you made mistakes. So what? You're only human. Forgive and move on. Let's face it...your W has some major self-esteem issues. Look at her fluctuating weight for one thing. All she does is complain about it, but does she do anything about it? No. She would rather complain about it.

It seems like that's your W's response to everything. It's not my fault. If only someone else could. Blah blah blah. She's gotta take responsibility some time and you can't shoulder everything.

She's hurt, fine. She's an adult. Let her deal with it because you can't change how she thinks and you can't control it. Simple as that. But you're allowing her to control you big time. It's been like this since day 1. If you read what you just wrote, you could hold it up to your first post and it's exactly the same.

I understand how your boys are hurting. My girls were hurting big time too. So be there for them when they need it, but stop carrying the cross on your shoulders.

There's your 2x4.

[confusedinpa]

So in other words, there needs to be some dialog/communication to set what the expectations are from both people to create the partnership. Or perhaps that is the part of what KittyFish wrote of taking the time to listen and to intimately know the other.

What would you be doing for your W if she had the M she needs?

She has the answer your job is to find out.

I had asked her this, not in the exact words, but from what I've gotten was that right now she feels that I still don't get her, meaning understanding how she feels and "knowing" what she needs based on understanding how she feels. It almost sounds like mind reading to me. She says you can see it in some couples how they can look across a room and be able to see how each one feels by the look in their eyes. I'm not sure how realistic that is, but I am trying to figure out how she is feeling when we are together. I'm not sure if that is really what she is looking for or just her excuse for holding onto the hurt.

I do know my wife wants to be felt loved. Her languages of love are physical touch, then words of affirmation and then quality time. They were each almost scored identically. I have to be careful about the physical touch, but I do try to do non-sexual touching. I try to use words of affirmation when I talk to her. Quality time right now is a challenge as she doesn't seeem comfortable being around me. So I'm shifting now that even if we are chatting on the phone, I try to use words of affirmation and make the time we spend chit chatting as high quality as possible.

Not sure if that is what she needs but you are right, she does have the answer and I do need to figure out....

[confusedinpa]

"I hate what I had done to get us to this point. I have learned my lesson and will continue to learn from it for the rest of my life."

Have you read anything that we've posted here? Stop blaming yourself. Your W is clinging to a "hurt" which, yes, is pretty dramatic. You and her can't live in the past. You're just frustrated and the main reason is because 1) you believe all the self-serving crap she's been dishing on you and 2) you haven't forgiven yourself.

Well M is a two-way street. Both of you made mistakes. So what? You're only human. Forgive and move on. Let's face it...your W has some major self-esteem issues. Look at her fluctuating weight for one thing. All she does is complain about it, but does she do anything about it? No. She would rather complain about it.

It seems like that's your W's response to everything. It's not my fault. If only someone else could. Blah blah blah. She's gotta take responsibility some time and you can't shoulder everything.

She's hurt, fine. She's an adult. Let her deal with it because you can't change how she thinks and you can't control it. Simple as that. But you're allowing her to control you big time. It's been like this since day 1. If you read what you just wrote, you could hold it up to your first post and it's exactly the same.

I understand how your boys are hurting. My girls were hurting big time too. So be there for them when they need it, but stop carrying the cross on your shoulders.

There's your 2x4.

Stuck,

Thanks for the 2x4. I've been trying not to blame myself and am coming to grips that I must forgive myself. I just haven't gotten there yet. I know I need to forgive myself before I could imagine having someone else (i.e. my wife) forgive me.

I do shoulder my share and see that she isn't even considering that she has anything to shoulder. One of my concerns is that even if she does, she doesn't deal with it in a very healthy manner. Until then, as Sandi had pointed out, there's not much chance that things will turn around. I just have to figure out how to steer/help her figure it out.

I did wind up calling the boys to say goodnite. I chatted with each of them a bit and then I asked to talk to my wife. My wife got on and I told her that our 7 year old still had homework to do tonite. She then started complaining about how difficult and uncoorperative the kids are becoming. I tried to listen and respond with "Oh, that can be just so frustrating" or "I can't believe that" or "You are right, that is ridiculous when they do that".

I then tried to shift to something positive in terms of how funny the game was tonite. She said it was but then went right into how bad the pizza was that she picked up for dinner and how it was not good for her (weight wise) and how she spent $50 for take out over the last 2 nites. Then she went into how cold it was before the game started and how she, at one point, even thought about just leaving and having the boys come home with me (I would have loved it I thought). She said she didn't because our 7 year old told her that he wanted her to be at the game this week since she missed last week.

I then tried to get her refocused on some of the funny things that happened during the game (shift into positive talk). I got her to agree that it was funny a few times. Then I told her that it sounds like she still has some things to take care of tonite so I would let her get going. I said goodnite and hung up.

So I'm still continuing with my latest strategy of where I engage her in light conversation after I say good nite to the kids. I try to be someone who listens and tries to understand/get her as she talks (which she does, usually complaining about something). I do then try to talk about something positive/funny and be the one who ends the call.

Let's see how this goes.

Thanks again for the 2x4.