Seperated

[JKL2009]

W then said the all too common phrase - its too little too late - she used an analogy and said its was like a wilting flower - every time the flower wilted, i gave it enough water and sun light to stand up, but now I've pushed too far, and the flower is dead, and no water or light can bring it back.

It is so tough to hear that, but we have to remember to not believe 90% of what comes out of their mouth and 50% of their actions. They are doing/saying anything to prop up their own feelings. Don't focus on that. Validate, but don't argue with it.

[LitlHopeAlwys]

Just thought I would share an example of bad DB'ing with everyone(slaps self on wrist - bad - no pursuing ) - here is an email I sent to the W after our last phone conversation
Names edited for a little bit of privacy

Not a minute in the day goes by where I don't think and pray about having you and S3 come home - nothing would bring me greater joy - but more important to me is that you and S3 are happy - I could not enjoy it if I knew that either of the two of you were unhappy. That is all that I want in life - to make the two of you happy. If I could do everything over again, i would do a lot of things different, (i said over - not change) especially the way I acted and treated you.(kinda like a mulligan in golf)

Unfortunately it took me this really horrible event to realize everything about life, and myself. I know that you say people can't change, well people can change, they have be motivated, have a a circumstance, and want something enough to bring about that change. And the change is not something that happens over night, its something that takes time, and will always require effort to continue the change. I wish I had understood more the first time you left, but I didn't, I was dumb and blind. This time around everything is clear to me - I know what I want in life, and I don't think i was ever sure of it before - I think I was just going day by day trying to get by.

I know that that I can't change the past. What I have to change is the meaning of the past. - all the mistakes and wrong turns that I made - It's everything that follows bad times that determine the meaning of those times, it's my future that determines my past, which if I don't change now, then all of this happening would be for no reason at all.
Sounds a little crazy right? I might be just that it hasn't been proven yet(but the same was said about Einstein). But I've come to the conclusion that I control my future, I determine the meaning of my past - and I'm trying to make it have some great meaning.

And the response that I got back from her :

When I left the first time that was your opportunity to fix things and keep us together. That was your second chance and you only get one “second chance”. And I voiced numerous times that we did not have a normal healthy relationship. Life should not be as hard and miserable as we were living it. And my main concern is S3. I could not and would not allow him to see his father behaving like he was towards his mother. He would most likely grow up thinking its acceptable to call women names and talk down to them. And he would also end up resenting you. I do believe people can change and I do understand it is a constant effort. But I hope you can understand that analogy I made with the plant. Once a plant dies it cannot come back to life. In order for a plant to survive it needs nurturing. All I ever needed from you was support and respect. I never felt like we were a team. I always felt like it was a struggle and everything was a battle. It’s the way I felt for a long time and yes at some times I too felt like I was going day by day trying to get by.

With every major event that happened while we were together, I hoped and prayed that maybe that change would be the one. Let me explain. I thought when we got married things would get better because you would be away from your dad who you fought with a lot. I thought we would have our own privacy and things would get better. But they didn’t. And then we got a house and I thought okay maybe he wasn’t so happy because my mothers house wasn’t our and now we can be settled. And then you were a little better but you hated Job XYZ, so I found you that job at XYZ2. And I was so happy and proud and wanted to share it with everyone and you got so mad at me…do you remember that? So you got that job, you didn’t like the hours, neither did I but the income was much better. Then I got pregnant and all you cared about was that damn game. Through the whole pregnancy, no sex, nothing for 9 months. Then we had S3. And I thought okay this has to be it. He will want to be a great father to this little boy. And you kept playing that game, missed out on pretty much his whole first year. And I was so frustrated that I left. But I told you I didn’t want it to be over. And you quit the game and we started therapy. And things did get better, for a while. But I remember going on that cruise and having a miserable time because you were unhappy. You couldn’t even poor me a glass of wine, you said it was the waiters job. Little things like that stick in my head. And you know its soo funny how you put that happy picture of us on the ferry on our way home from park online. That picture was taken before S3 peed all over you, which of course was my fault because I didn’t make him go before we left. I tried to make him go while you were out sitting finishing up your drink and bullshitting, I was inside trying to persuade a two year old to pee really fast because we had a boat to run and catch. I wish I had a picture or a video of your face and how angry you were that he had an accident on your lap. Seriously H things have not been good for a long time. But something just snapped in January. I realized that life is too short to be unhappy.

I would get up every morning, making sure your clothes were ironed and ready for you. I got S3 ready and out the door everyday. I came home every night and attempted to make dinner. I played with S3 just about every night. I would be downstairs dancing around or playing with play-doh and you’d either be upstairs on the computer or planted in front of the tv. And I’d give him a bath and read him a book. Do you remember me doing all that? I was so exhausted H. And after he went to bed I’d go down and clean up and finish up the laundry that I started at 6 in the morning. And you’d be showered and in bed already. I know this story is probably being told my a lot of other moms across the country. “I’m not appreciated, I don’t have any time to myself.” But honestly that wasn’t the whole issue. I would have done it for the rest of my life if you had been nicer. But you were so mean to me, I was trying my hardest and you still managed to put me down and hurt me. Every bad thing that happened was my fault somehow. And I was a moron and a xxxxx and xxxxx. Those words crushed my spirit and killed me inside. You think I’m just going to move on with my life, find someone new and have this wonderful life. You’re wrong H. I am so afraid of being hurt, I am so afraid of having someone around S3, that I am not interested in meeting anyone. I have put up a wall and I am very cautious and skeptical about everyone. And its sad that this is how things are, but this is the way it is and we can’t turn back time, just move forward and heal ourselves and keep that beautiful little boy of our happy because he is all that matters.

And yes I have seen and spoken to her since the email - she asked me to drop off her bike at her mother's. So I did - she thanked me and went on to then say do you know how lucky you are that you have things to do when S3 is not with you - like mountain biking, cutting the lawn, cleaning the house. She then said that she has nothing - nothing to do - no place to go to be alone - no privacy. I was left speechless - a lot of what I do in my spare time is upkeep and maintenance on the house - yes I do try and take a couple hours a day for myself to bike ride now - but i have to work my butt off to make that time now. And again I get the riot act - do you know how many times I would lie awake at night and worry about you, the way you eat and don't exercise, and now you are eating healthy and exercising.

All I could do was try to ignore her(I felt like she was testing me for a confrontation), I just tried to keep my focus on S3, to avoid any conflict or having to give any reason behind what motivates me. Told her to enjoy her dinner, gave S3 a kiss, and said that I had to go and get a few things done.

Seriously, if she doesn't understand that desire to be a better person are whats driving me - I don't know if she ever will.


Well that was interesting - the W just called while I was finishing up this post. She asked if I could come by tomorrow and look at something on her bike and make sure that its ok. Told her I would but it would be later in evening - while i was on my bike ride. She said that would be fine, and then continued to talk about S3 and her job for a little while. But anyway for me its time to go and sleep - my body is still sore and looking to rest of hard trail riding yesterday.

Goodnight to all - and thank you to everyone so far with their advice - I will post more as events unfold.

[SavingMyMarriage]

Hi LHA -

I'm not the best DBer, so take my feedback with caution. My opinion from what I read is that you're doing a pretty good job overall. There will be ups and downs and backslides.

The fact that your W is still hurt and angry and still contacts you from time to time is somewhat positive. It's also positive that she doesn't have an OM in her life.

I'm still living with my W, but she has told me that she wants to be with someone else (she actually works with OM in same dept). We basically live like roommates now, but still sleep in the same bed and give each other a kiss before going to work (basically a routine, but it's hard for me to give up the kiss before we leave). I write this because I think it is easier for someone (I could be wrong) to reconcile when there isn't an OM or OW involved.

My W said the same thing: she tried and tried and tried and now she has given up all hope -- similar to your W's flower analogy. In my situation, my W truly believes that I never had strong feelings for her as she did for me and this was the reason why she didn't feel "loved" by me. She does feel loved by the OM though.

Anyway, I just wanted to encourage you keep on trying and keep on DBing... I've learned that each situation is different and sometimes it's okay to go a little "off track" from time to time. I'm having some big problems on detaching, so I know what you're going through...

[LitlHopeAlwys]

Hi LHA -

I'm not the best DBer, so take my feedback with caution. My opinion from what I read is that you're doing a pretty good job overall. There will be ups and downs and backslides.

The fact that your W is still hurt and angry and still contacts you from time to time is somewhat positive. It's also positive that she doesn't have an OM in her life.

I'm still living with my W, but she has told me that she wants to be with someone else (she actually works with OM in same dept). We basically live like roommates now, but still sleep in the same bed and give each other a kiss before going to work (basically a routine, but it's hard for me to give up the kiss before we leave). I write this because I think it is easier for someone (I could be wrong) to reconcile when there isn't an OM or OW involved.

My W said the same thing: she tried and tried and tried and now she has given up all hope -- similar to your W's flower analogy. In my situation, my W truly believes that I never had strong feelings for her as she did for me and this was the reason why she didn't feel "loved" by me. She does feel loved by the OM though.

Anyway, I just wanted to encourage you keep on trying and keep on DBing... I've learned that each situation is different and sometimes it's okay to go a little "off track" from time to time. I'm having some big problems on detaching, so I know what you're going through...

Thanks SMM - every bit of advise does help along with everything that is read here.
It seems our stiches have some similarities, I am trying to learn from my mistakes, back slides, and the advise of others(different view points are always a good thing).

I saw W again tonight - she had asked me to help with her bike to make sure she didn't break anything.
I took my usual bike ride, but made a side trip and stopped into see her. Never finished my long ride - played with son and chatted with W for too long and didn't feel like riding in darkness, so I cut it short.
W didn't break anything on bike at all - she had a nut on backwards and couldn't get it tight enough.

We actually had a good conversation about a few different things - she has telling me how she is looking for a doctor to do thermal body image scanning - she went into details - I'm not going to right now - nothing wrong with her though.
We talked about her job, and how she thinks a couple of people may be terminated due to issues with their licenses and insurance costs(one of which is OM from EA, although she denies it says she was in love with the idea of being in love with someone like him - until she saw the real him - I was there when that happened and he was an @%^$&*#@). She expressed her disinterest about having to be in early Thursday to go with owner and couple others to a training seminar.

Then when i don't expect it, she asks if I got her reply to my email - I told her I did and that I replied back to her yesterday - she said she never got it, and if I could resend it to her. I told her I would resend it, although I haven't yet, and I'm not sure that I really want to. Maybe its a sign that she never got the email.
I'm going to sleep on it and possibly write a different reply if i do choose to send it, although right now I am leaning more towards just dropping it and letting it go.

[LitlHopeAlwys]

So the W has been calling me all morning - at work, cell phone - been busy and finally called her back.
She was in a really bad mood - she said her dad who rents apartment from us - has no money this month because he has to get his truck fixed. So a couple of days ago she would let him slide and be a little late with it. Today she spoke to him and was told me bought a car the summer. So she asked him about the truck, and he said it will be fixed next week. Then she asked him where he plans on parking it for the summer - he told her in the road in front of the house - she told him no. He answered her with what does it matter to you anyway you don't live there. I'll just talk to H about it. She is so annoyed with him at this point that she is ready to leave her job and go kick him out of the apartment and empty all of his things out.
Well I agree with W - no, the truck will not be parked in the road - or my driveway for that matter. He'll have to find someplace else to store it.

Now she is in a cranky mood, and I have to hear it, and then I get the we have to get everything out of the house - I just want to sell it, and get everything over with. So I told her fine, I'll start throwing everything out - no don't she tells me I'll get a POD and we can sell it, I don't want to just throw everything like the toys out. All I said to her was do whatever you feel has to be done.

Now I have to try and make it through the rest of my day with PMA - right now the only positive that I can think about is that I get to see S3 tonight.

[LitlHopeAlwys]

Ughhh..So W called me while on way home from work to pick up S3 up. She told me that she no longer has to go to work early tomorrow and said that if I want that I don't have to watch S3 tonight. I told her I would like to, and said that I was going to take him to diner for dinner - offered her to join. She declined, saying that it won't help either of us, and how we are feeling bad. I told her I understand that, but I didn't know how she is feeling, and I wasn't going to assume.
She then when on to say "Do you think I'm happy with the whole situation?" Left speechless, all I could say to her was I'm sorry you feel that way, and I understand that you are unhappy.
I cut the conversation off asap by saying to her the offer still stands, if your interested, if not have a good night.

All I could think when said she was unhappy, why then are you the one that is pushing for everything to be over - can't be that unhappy.

It was a fun night just playing and watching a movie after dinner with S3. No contact from W, I wonder what I will be hit with next, wish I could read her mind.

[LitlHopeAlwys]

Si its has been a few days since I posted anything. I spent the weekend with my S3, we went to a fair Saturday night, and on Sunday I took him for a bike ride to see W's uncle(we are close and already agreed to remain friends no matter what the outcome is). Ended up going back to W's uncles after bike ride, to go swimming and stayed for dinner. Overall a great weekend, until had to bring S3 to W. When S3 realized that we were on MIL's road, started crying that we doesn't want to go to nanny's or with mommy. Broke my heart, I brought him into W, and said goodbye, and told her I can't do this anymore.

She called me at home, wondering what I meant, explained to her that she said S3 will be fine, he won't understand, told her well he does, and he is hurting. Ended conversation - I just mentally couldn't do it.

Now this morning W calls me at work to help her with her computer - some stupid problem - I remote access her pc help her out done. Fast forward on to tonight, I get home go for a bike ride to help with some of the frustration/sadness. Get home eat and come online here to read some threads. W calls just as I get on. She wants to know how she can access the home computer and all the pictures on it. Ask her why - says she needs a picture. She tells me that she is looking for an old picture, and that the drive she took only goes up to February. She took the back up drive in Feb. when she left and that has all the pictures on it. Which means anything newer she has from the camera - and any pic on the computer she also has there.

I then get the same old lecture, ,which at this point, I am honestly beginning to get tired of hearing. You ruined everything, and I hate you!! I told her I'm sorry, I know that's how you feel, and I am not going to argue with you over this. Told S3 to have a good night and hung up phone.

How is it that the WAS knows just how to kick you when you are down? As if I wasn't having a hard enough day, i have to go through all this again.
Do they just try and make you feel miserable, are they miserable and think misery loves company? Or are they just trying to remind themselves of why they left?

[LitlHopeAlwys]

Well that was strange - the W called me at work - out of no where - not work related at all.

She said that she just wanted to apologize for being a bitch last night on the phone(in her words - not mine). Asked her if everything was alright - she answered yes that she was just looking at old pictures and got angry/upset.
I told her that she didn't have to apologize, and she insisted that she did and was out of line - I thanked her and told her to have a great day at work.

[LitlHopeAlwys]

Spoke to the W for the first time in a couple of days. I called her to see how S3 is doing. She told me that he is good, and that she signed him up for a 5 day a week camp for the summer. I had told her weeks ago that it is a good idea, and will get him away from my parents for a bit.

From that she tells me how S3 does not like going there, because of my father - I said I know - he can be mean. Then I get a I moved out to get away from the fighting and yesterday when i picked him up they started arguing in front of me. She told me about the argument, and i could here the change in tone in her voice - she was getting frustrated or angry. I didn't want to go through another tongue lashing episode from the other night that this is all your fault again.

I told her that I had to go and she got even more angry with me for wanting to get off the phone - I tried to explain to her, I can hear her frustration and instead of adding to it I think its best that we get off the phone. All she would say is fine talk to you later.

[LitlHopeAlwys]

So I called the W last night - I was not having one of the best nights anyway so I figured it can't hurt to try and speak with her. We only spoke shortly - she said she was reading - wouldn't give me book name. We really didn't speak about anything other then how our days went.

She called me again this morning at work - we spoke for about 15 minutes - again she started with how my father acts and talks towards our son when she drops off/picks him up from there house daily.

She told me a story of how this morning, they brought the paper in from the mailbox, and my father asks S3 if we got it wet. No thank you or any other encouraging words - not surprising knowing my father. Then the W tells me a story of how S3 says he loves Grandma but not Grandpa - no surprise here. I told my W to just ignore it and I'll have a talk with them about it - last time I tried talking to father, it ended with me telling him to stay in Florida year round.

Hmmm.. I think she might be psychic or her ears ringing - she called again while I was typing this. Now she wants to know if its ok for her to schedule to have blood drawn - allergy testing - on S3 on a Saturday when I have him. She wanted to know if its ok with me and I'll meet W there. I agreed to it.

I've gotten a little used to the roller coaster of emotions, and I know to continue to work on me - that no matter what it will make me a better person. I know somewhere in here there are positives to her actions, I just have to look deep to see them.

Even though we don't talk about R, I just have this uneasy feeling in my gut that no matter what I change, who I become that she just doesn't care and will not want to see it.

I have to continue to work on PMA, myself, and as act as if attitude. I see that changes in me have a ripple affect on everything around me - and hope it has enough of an effect to save M.