Stuck, my sitch was different, because I cheated, confessed, we reconciled, but then 10 years later, I ended up cheating again, I did NOT confess, we separated, and then divorced. We both did everything wrong that could have possibly gone wrong.
But here is one part of my sitch that might be similar to yours and might help you.
With my first A, I worked with the guy. He was a total idiot (duh, most OM's ARE total idiots) and I ended the A because he was just such an idiot. But I didn't confess to my husband for over 4 years, and during that whole time, I worked with the OM.
Now, for my own reasons, I HATED the OM during that 4 years, so I can honestly say I never once showed him any type of attention that could have been construed as anything other than hostile and total avoidance when possible. He knew I hated him and stayed away for the most part. During the uncomfortable moments when we were forced to speak to each other, I was nothing but curt and short. The rest of the time I was cold and as distant from him as possible.
However...even though I didn't have those happy affair chemicals about him any more...it was still very very hard to put the whole thing behind me in my mind while still working with him. For instance, although I hated him, sometimes he would creep into my fantasies still. I would quickly kick him out as he discusted me, but I'm just trying to give you the awareness that you need to understand about your wife's thoughts.
When I finally confessed to my husband out of pure guilt 4 years later, he didn't demand that I leave my work place, figuring that I had had those 4 years to get over it, and I truly had....however, as I'm saying to you, even if you hate this OM now, if you see them every day it will not allow you to move on.
When I did leave that job and never had to see him again it was a huge blessing. Unfortuantely, my ex-h and I never addressed our issues OR the affair correctly, and eventually I cheated again.
I wouldn't try to wait out the year if you want to recover the marriage but....I do understand your dilemma of not being able to give her an ultimatum without it maybe making her freak out on you.
Maybe she is feeding off of your vibe. She feels uneasy if you feel the same way. Have you tried to lighten it up. Play some music, some 70's or 80's. Just dance in the kitchen when you're cooking, spin her around and then go back to what you're doing.
Thanks. Everything you've said is spot on what I've been thinking. I think what I'm going to do is play it by ear. See how things go for the next few days and if I see her withdrawing even more, then I'll bring it up.
This really is a tough call because she's a nurse and he's a doctor and they work in the same department. I think she has it in her head that it's like Grey's Anatomy where everyone sleeps with each other with no emotional attachment whatsoever.
And since she hasn't told me specifically that she wants to work on the M, then I'm afraid me giving her the ultimatum will give her the "excuse" she needs to leave with a clear conscience.
M-43 W-40 2D - 9 and 5
Emotion, yet peace. Ignorance, yet knowledge. Passion, yet serenity. Chaos, yet harmony. Death, yet a new life.
I've been a little playful with her, but I don't think she's fully responsive to that yet. Everything so far is me playing things by ear.
I haven't mentioned C to her since we separated, but I've been thinking of bringing it up again. Although in the past she's been adamant about not going.
M-43 W-40 2D - 9 and 5
Emotion, yet peace. Ignorance, yet knowledge. Passion, yet serenity. Chaos, yet harmony. Death, yet a new life.
stuck - you said: "She still works with the OM although not directly with him. So she sees him several times a week. I do trust it when she says she keeps everything professional with him."
I hate to tell you this, but because she still works with him, she is still having an affair with him in her heart, if not more than that. She simply cannot break free and get over him if she is seeing him at work. She must change jobs (or he must) and if she does not, its like a crack addict who is trying to get clean, but who gets just a tiny taste of it every few days, and therefore never gets it out of his/her system enough to be fully clean. And when this type of thing happens, because there is still a little bit in their system all the time, they are very vulnerable to just jumping right back into a full on addiction (or affair) at any moment. Its "right there under their nose" so to speak. To resist requires incredible strength that an addict generally doesn't have.
This is probably why you get the feeling she could run at any moment.
Stuck...I know that you feel she will not stand for any ultimatums from you, but if you want her to ever be able to break free from her feelings for OM, she has to leave that job and go NC for ever. There is no other way.
Whatever you have to do, even if it makes a really uncomfortable situation for a while, it will cause you less pain in the long run that what you will feel when she starts up an affair with him yet again.
Please think about it.
DQ
This will not work, you are attempting to control them, when would that ever work? Why would someone be attracted to someone who controls them in this fashion? That would repel them, not attract them.
I'm sorry but this is wrong, plain wrong.
Free will is where it's at, that is where honesty is.
If you have to put out an ultimatum & tell her to quit her job, that isn't going to work. If you think she's ready to walk out the door right now, that would be you opening the door for her, she'll accept that invitation and leave.
It's a known rule in life, we resist & rebel against those that try to control us. Learn this, know this, understand this and then apply it to your situation.
Don't control her.
As for the addict statement, you classify her as an addict because she's attracted to this other man. But if she was attracted to her husband, she wouldn't be an addict, she would be normal. Seriously the logic doesn't work. She isn't an addict and this situation is all about attraction. Once he knows how to spark attraction with his wife (and he's currently trying to force her to be attracted which will never work), that's when he will get success with her.
Part of your original success when she moved out was that you had limited contact with her, that sparked a small amount of attraction with her because you didn't see her everyday. That changed when you got her to move back and you guys resumed your dull boring adult lives again. This isn't an insult, it's just me being real with you on this.
Attraction is exciting, a little unpredictable, definitely isn't boring, it's energetic.
Stop going in for the kiss every night. If she wants to kiss you, let her but don't pursue her for a hug & kiss. She expects this, so stop doing what she expects.
I've been a little playful with her, but I don't think she's fully responsive to that yet. Everything so far is me playing things by ear.
I haven't mentioned C to her since we separated, but I've been thinking of bringing it up again. Although in the past she's been adamant about not going.
No counselling, you're nowhere near a stage where counselling would be effective. It would just be another way where you are trying to get someone else to prove to her that you're right and she's wrong, definitely an attraction killer.
Sounds like David Cunningham's words if you've ever read him. I think DQ has a point about it being like a drug high. Biologically, the pleasure centers are the same and if you've read alot of the cheating posts, the WASs totally change in light of the A. They literally will travel for miles for their "fix", leaving behind family and home.
You are right that it is a choice. Kind of like cigarettes. They available, but you don't have to smoke them.
"Free will is where it's at, that is where honesty is."
So true!
In terms of attraction, many times the WAS has taken the "attraction" away from the LBS and given it to the OM/OW. You could be Brad Pitt and they still wouldn't be attracted to you. Weird how it turns out.
Confidence, looking good, etc. are great for trying to bring back attraction, however they have to be willing to accept it and trust it. Especially women. They have to feel emotionally attracted to someone before opening themselves up. That means feeling safe not just physically, but emotionally with the spouse.
Plus, "getting back" the attraction from the wayward spouse is harder when there is that OM distraction.
So what to do? Well, I know the cycle has to be broken somehow as I don't think she'll be leaving her job. So I've been doing it through DBing and making myself the person I can be to build confidence in myself and indirectly making myself more "attractive".
However, she's got to determine why she strayed in the first place and be honest about it to herself. After that, then she can talk about her real feelings with me. She's just not at that point. She and the rest of her family have a hard time opening up about emotions, so it's something she has to learn to stop burying or else she'll never be happy no matter who she's with.
Thanks for the comments. More are appreciated.
M-43 W-40 2D - 9 and 5
Emotion, yet peace. Ignorance, yet knowledge. Passion, yet serenity. Chaos, yet harmony. Death, yet a new life.
Stuck, my sitch was different, because I cheated, confessed, we reconciled, but then 10 years later, I ended up cheating again, I did NOT confess, we separated, and then divorced. We both did everything wrong that could have possibly gone wrong.
But here is one part of my sitch that might be similar to yours and might help you.
With my first A, I worked with the guy. He was a total idiot (duh, most OM's ARE total idiots) and I ended the A because he was just such an idiot. But I didn't confess to my husband for over 4 years, and during that whole time, I worked with the OM.
Now, for my own reasons, I HATED the OM during that 4 years, so I can honestly say I never once showed him any type of attention that could have been construed as anything other than hostile and total avoidance when possible. He knew I hated him and stayed away for the most part. During the uncomfortable moments when we were forced to speak to each other, I was nothing but curt and short. The rest of the time I was cold and as distant from him as possible.
However...even though I didn't have those happy affair chemicals about him any more...it was still very very hard to put the whole thing behind me in my mind while still working with him. For instance, although I hated him, sometimes he would creep into my fantasies still. I would quickly kick him out as he discusted me, but I'm just trying to give you the awareness that you need to understand about your wife's thoughts.
When I finally confessed to my husband out of pure guilt 4 years later, he didn't demand that I leave my work place, figuring that I had had those 4 years to get over it, and I truly had....however, as I'm saying to you, even if you hate this OM now, if you see them every day it will not allow you to move on.
When I did leave that job and never had to see him again it was a huge blessing. Unfortuantely, my ex-h and I never addressed our issues OR the affair correctly, and eventually I cheated again.
I wouldn't try to wait out the year if you want to recover the marriage but....I do understand your dilemma of not being able to give her an ultimatum without it maybe making her freak out on you.
DQ
DQ we've had our differences before on many topics and everything you say here thus far confirms why we have differences but at least it reveals to stuck that he can't use male logic to deal with his wife.
DQ had two affairs and recaps in the end that "we both did everything wrong". In the end DQ, you had the affairs, not your husband and you're still not taking responsibility for it, you didn't take responsibility for the first one and then several years later, relapsed and had another affair.
You called the OM in your first affair an idiot (if you had an affair with an idiot, what does that make you?), but unknowingly you point out an important thing: you were attracted to him even if he was an idiot. Attraction isn't something you make someone have, you were attracted to him because you were and you can't explain it other than the fact that you were attracted to him even during times that you "hated" him (hate & love are 2 sides of the same coin, you'll find that lots of couples love & hate each other).
Stuck you need to realize that the attraction that your wife has for the OM isn't something she controls. You were/are attracted to your wife for many reasons still and you can't control it, if you could, you would be done with her for cheating on you.
It doesn't matter how much you address these issues, the potential for an affair will exist even if your wife leaves her job, she'll still have thoughts about this doctor, she knows where he works, has his #, etc.
Stuck, you need to do several things which are totally illogical but will work. Dating your wife right now, although sounds sweet and romantic isn't sparking attraction with her. Taking her to the movies or for a nice dinner isn't going to spark attraction with her it's just going to confirm to her that you aren't the guy for her, you're trying hard to win her back regardless if you see it like this or not.
Another thing, you are essentially "conquered". She could have you back at a moment's notice because you're sitting at home waiting for her to come to her senses and see that you are the "right" choice and that she should be "attracted" to you. Attraction isn't a choice, it's a natural overwhelming response based on the stimulus available. The OM isn't trying to attract her but she is attracted to him, you are trying and she isn't attracted to you.
It's time to think & do the opposite of what you've been doing.
Stop asking about the affair. She's admitted it, you know about it, the secret is out, milk is spilled, nothing you can do about it.
Stop talking about the relationship & counselling, keep any talk to a minimum and don't start any conversations, that is seen as pursuing and you have to stop pursuing her. In nature and in our lives, we all run from things that pursue us (that makes you chase her even more and that makes her run away from you even more, you have to be sensing this by now, she wants to run away). From now on, you only respond to her, don't initiate any talking, emailing, texting, etc. Keep your responses to a minimum. Get a life of your own and don't reveal the details of your life: mystery is attractive and right now you're an open book with an easy to read index & table of contents page with every detail about you available at her fingertips - that is boring. Keep some info to yourself. Any doubt about how this is effective? Think about it this way, your wife is mysterious to you right now, you are guessing about her thoughts, what she does at work with the OM, if possibly she is still seeing him secretly - you are attracted to her in part due to the mystery of her. Time for you to be mysterious too. Do you go to a gym? If not, start going regularly, change your appearance, pump some iron, increase the testosterone that your body produces, this will help you become more aggressive, assertive, more masculine (yes I said masculine), you will gain more muscle, lose body fat, feel better about yourself, pump up your self-esteem and generally feel great about yourself without concerning yourself with the details of your wife's actions. Start shopping, small steps at a time but start changing your appearance, start with some new jeans, some new kicks (shoes), maybe a different hairstyle. Start hanging out with friends more often, get out of the house more, and when you're not doing stuff just with you & your friends, take your kids out by yourself and take care of them without having your wife tag along.
In the end you have to realize this: you have placed her on a pedestal and she knows it, she can get away with doing things to harm the relationship and you'll be there to say that it's ok and carry on as usual - that is boring, there is no challenge in that. You also have to love yourself more than you love your wife and you have to have the mindset that you are willing to let go of anyone that doesn't respect you or value the relationship that they have with you which is what your wife is doing. Stop being a doormat to her and it sounds like maybe you are.
There is so much more that I can say on this topic but I'll cut it to an end right here, I'd rather save my time & energy and invest it in people that are willing to do the things that aren't conventional but work.
If you want, you can listen to DQ but in the end, I don't know how much of what she will tell you will help you in your situation. No offense DQ but none of what you tell him is going to get his wife attracted to him. Working on the relationship and issuing ultimatums isn't sexy and isn't going to spark any attraction anytime soon. Getting his wife to quit her job isn't going to solve anything because unless you noticed yourself, even after you quit your job, several years later you cheated on your husband again. You weren't attracted to your husband and that is why you cheated not once but twice and never took full responsibility for your actions because you still contend that "we both did everything wrong" instead of just saying that what you did was wrong: you still focus on your husband's mistakes instead of just focusing on your own mistakes and that is a habit and a mindset you still haven't corrected you may find yourself experiencing the same problem in your next relationship because of it: we ourselves are the common denominator in every life experience and we can't worry about what someone else did to save or ruin a relationship, from our own point of views, we need to realize that we are 100% responsible for the health of the relationship and we alone can make changes to improve or break that relationship.
Good luck Stuck, give me a shout if you are interested in turning this thing around using techniques that others may frown upon but will improve the chances of your success dramatically.
There are no guarantees in life but we can expect to achieve the same results if we keep doing the same things.
