I don't know if they'll ever actually "understand" how we felt or feel about what they did...honestly now having been through it yourself and knowing what it feels like, is it what you would have imagined it to be (not saying we all sit and ponder).
perhaps a bit of empathy is what you are seeking from cj... in order to give that forgiveness...
perhaps letting him read your journal entry from that time might help...but then it may hurt too...
is it possible for you to accpet that he does feel bad about what he did and his empathy is shown to you by being supportive of you.
I know that my h will never know what I went through...a mere glimps is about all he could see...he will never understand the pain I suffered no matter how I try to explain...it's just one of those things you don't know until you've been through it...heck my mil continuously tried to claim that she knew how I felt and it pissed me off...no one knows until they've been there nothing comes close.
i wonder too shiny if waiting for just the right conversation from our spouses is just another cheeseless tunnel.
i have come to grips with the fact that i will never hear the words i want to hear from my husband regarding the affair. the remourse i think that he should feel. doesn't make the wanting of it go away tho. maybe with time yes, but not at the moment.
I must admit that my forgiveness will come with a price, and that price is ownership of responsibility by both of us.
I know that for me, before I can allow my H to come home again, I will NEED to know that he has acknowledged what he's done (for himself), that he owns the decision process that he used to make his destructive choices and that he will now SEE if and when those destructive thoughts begin to re-emerge that he will be able to deal with them appropriately this time.
I feel that if my H doesn't really review the patterns that he developed, that took us through this hell, then there is a chance that he could choose this road again in the future when times are tough between us.
I need to know that he absolutely truly knows that what he did IS NOT and NEVER WILL BE the answer to disharmony in our marriage.
I need to know that he realizes that there are no secret escape routes from unhappiness that the only way to regain happiness is to openly and honestly address his issues with me and give me an opportunity to make any reasonable changes necessary to make him happy again.
I do not want to sweep anything under the rug, I want it all dealt with. I want to own my responsibility in the downfall of our R and I want him to own all of his as well. I want our NEW R and M to be built on complete and total trust and faith in each other. I don't want a watered down version of the old M. I want a new one. T2
What is not bringing up the conversation doing to you? Is it eating inside you and affecting the way you act? Would getting it out there with the possiblity he say the words worth the risk that he doesn't?
LL, I'm not so sure that it would be fruitless. I mean when I GOT what my behaviours had done to CJ over the years I was horrified! I FELT his pain, the sense of belittlement, dismissal, I SAW things from his side and spoke the words FOR him.
THAT is true empathy. CJ is a very sensitive person. He was walking around in a daze in those days, many of the things I have a hard time forgiving are like this one.
It MIGHT help me let go if I felt he KNEW what that was like for me. He told me once that he could not process all of the pain he brought into our M all at once as it would overwhelm him (this was early in MC).
Still not doing anything with this notion...just kicking it around.
LL, I'm not so sure that it would be fruitless. I mean when I GOT what my behaviours had done to CJ over the years I was horrified! I FELT his pain, the sense of belittlement, dismissal, I SAW things from his side and spoke the words FOR him. do you think he doesnt' get it? or just hasn't spoken your words for you? THAT is true empathy. CJ is a very sensitive person. He was walking around in a daze in those days, many of the things I have a hard time forgiving are like this one.
It MIGHT help me let go if I felt he KNEW what that was like for me. again I'll say..do you think it possible for one to truly KNOW what it is like until they themselves are put in that position? He told me once that he could not process all of the pain he brought into our M all at once as it would overwhelm him (this was early in MC). a very wise statement!
Still not doing anything with this notion...just kicking it around. by kicking it around you certainly are doing something with it.
Well, LL I suppose a person can never know EXACTLY what another went through, but there are degrees of "getting it".
I suppose when he brought up what a nightmare it would be for the TWO of us to pack up and sell this house, it said to me that he really didn't realize/remember that he ALMOST left me alone, sick, finacially strapped, with the whole bloody mess!
I sometimes think that he was so fogged out then that he did things he doesn't even remember...for example when I asked why he was so cruel about his STD results (he stormed in an threw the negative report down in front of me saying, in a nasty tone, here you can put that with your evidence)...he denies having done any such thing!!!
Quote: Well, LL I suppose a person can never know EXACTLY what another went through, but there are degrees of "getting it".
I kinda get the feeling I'm pushing some of the wrong buttons with you shiny.
Quote: I suppose when he brought up what a nightmare it would be for the TWO of us to pack up and sell this house, it said to me that he really didn't realize/remember that he ALMOST left me alone, sick, finacially strapped, with the whole bloody mess!
or maybe it was a small way of recognizing what a nightmare you faced in having to think that it might come to that?
Quote: I sometimes think that he was so fogged out then that he did things he doesn't even remember...for example when I asked why he was so cruel about his STD results (he stormed in an threw the negative report down in front of me saying, in a nasty tone, here you can put that with your evidence)...he denies having done any such thing!!!
my h too doesn't recall saying lot's and lot's of hurtful things...doesn't recall a whole lot of stuff...does it mean they're blind? I would like to think it means they are trying to focus on the positive and for whatever reason (not to excuse themselves) have forgotten such things. I've read somewhere before (probably john grey stuff) that us womenfolk have this tendancy to bring up old stuff into new discussions and the men just don't seem to do that...it throws them...if enough time has passed from one event to the next the previous is forgotten and out of bounds. would that be the case with his crappy attitude with the std report incident?
Hi LL, no, not pushing any wrong buttons, just making me think...that's always welcome!
One of the things that makes things different in my sitch is that CJ and I have many Mars/Venus things in gender reversal.
For example, CJ is the one with the stellar memory. I mean DETAILS from years and years ago. He is also the one who can't "get in the mood" if things are not great between us.
(and now they are....still not "in the mood" )
LL, CJ has NO trouble digging up incidents from 11, 8, 5, 3 years ago in which I was hurtful to him. He has brought up one particular incident when I called him an idiot for forgetting my vodka at home when we got to a party.
I listen to him tell it, I validate how insensitive, bossy, entitled and belittling I was to him, how I am SOOO sorry to have made him feel that way, that he in NO way deserved to be treated in that manner etc.
Is not my empathy and validation helping him to heal the hurt from those incidents?
When he mentioned the moving thing the other day I got NO sense that there was any reference to last year. It's as though that never happened.
for forgetting my vodka at home when we got to a party.