WAW + MLC + Male BFF + "Just Friends" = Fed Up

[iwantittowork]

I am so surprised at all the similarities in a lot of the stories that I am reading in the forums, in comparison with my own sitch.

I feel like I am reading about myself when I read your story above, although I don't currently have the OM aspect to deal with, so I feel for you even more

One thing that strikes me, is all the language, actions and issues are very well described in the books and on this iste, including the specific words that our W use on us. I think we need to take some support for ourselves in that fact, and that the solutions they offer may offer some hope to us.

Meaning we need to do the action steps, Act as if, GAL, etc. I am struggling with this part of it, and slipped up again last night, but will get up, dust off and try again.

Keep up the hard work Heartbroken20, your inspirational to me in knowing how hard you have worked so far...

Have

[PortlandDad]

Heartbroken,

I feel for you as well. 180s are definitely the way to go. Find something that works and stick to it. I am definitely a fan our boundaries now. If you can, search out Puppy Dog Tails: he's a DB vet here and an outspoken advocate of exposing As and setting firm boundaries. I wish I had a penny of his advice before my sitch got to where it is now. He usually hangs out in AFWAWs and Smiley Persons threads here in Newcomers. Post a quick hijack there and see if he can give you some advice.

Best of luck to you!

[Heartbroken20]

Heartbroken,

I feel for you as well. 180s are definitely the way to go. Find something that works and stick to it. I am definitely a fan our boundaries now. If you can, search out Puppy Dog Tails: he's a DB vet here and an outspoken advocate of exposing As and setting firm boundaries. I wish I had a penny of his advice before my sitch got to where it is now. He usually hangs out in AFWAWs and Smiley Persons threads here in Newcomers. Post a quick hijack there and see if he can give you some advice.

Best of luck to you!

Thanks Portland, appreciate the encouragement. Biggest problem for me is following through on the 180's and determining which ones work! So far I keep running into brick walls. There is such a lack of remorse for any of this on her part that it seems no matter what I do, she could still care less about saving our marriage. So I'm still searching for an effective technique (or the gumption to follow through on some DB techniques fully and consistently). The latter is probably the more accurate statement. Guess I'm probably not good at noticing her changes/reactions either as she seems to still not give a **** about us or breaking up our family.

But I will try to read PBT's posts and absorb their wisdom. Thanks.

[Kimmie Lee]

Yeah, Puppy is Da Man!

You are right in not wanting to help your W walk out the door. Don't lift a finger to help her leave. She will "string you along while she formulates her plan" is exactly right. It is textbook.

[Heartbroken20]

Funny you should say "textbook" as that is what a number of my friends who have gotten divorced say about her actions. Nearly all of her friends are now divorced/separated and she certainly has no lack of "what not to do" or "be sure you do" examples to follow.

[Heartbroken20]

So after starting a couple different threads (newbie error) I've decided to return to my original thread so as to stop confusing everyone.

Well it looks like my W's constant dependence on her EA may be starting to wain somewhat. I've stopped monitoring her phone/email so much because it was driving me crazy although it definitely allowed me to see through her smokescreen and get a better handle on when she's lying to me (like MOST of the time). But I also know her heart hasn't come back to me. She may now understand she will never have the relationship she wanted with EA/OM, but therefore she doesn't want ANY relationship right now.

We went to a Harville Hendrix seminar about a month ago and although she went, she really wasn't into it. She said because some couples "fell back in love" during the weekend and she didn't, it means we just need to go ahead and divorce. "Why delay the inevitable?"

Harville's position is that you will ALWAYS be unconciously attracted to the same type of person so it's a waste of time to divorce and think you will find someone "better". You won't. You'll find someone slightly different, but with a whole new set of issues it will take you years to adapt to. His theory is that in your marriage, you have the opportunity to help each other heal each other's emotional wounds. Unless they are healed, you will inevitably e drawn right back to a relationship that will eventually have the same types of problems you have in your current one.

Not sure if he's right on all points but do believe that it's better to work with what you have than to go through all the pain and struggle of breaking up a family and then have to start the process all over again with someone new with no assurance you will be happier in the end.

Anyway, she wants to start the D process (through Collaborative Law) as soon as possible so since I don't want my D13 & D16 to feel I've betrayed them (there's enough betrayal around here already) I think they deserve to know what she has decided and that it is not what I want for all of us.

We plan to tell the girls this weekend using the approach Coach took with Greek and that is to let her explain herself and her reasons for her decision and will step in and correct her immediately if she tries to make it look like a "we" decision. Will wait, then at the end, ask if they have any questions for me. We'll see what happens.

[Heartbroken20]

Opened up a separate banking account this week. W opened hers 8 months ago but never told me until I saw a wierd statement when I got the mail one day last month. Nice. Anyway, W was immediately concerned about what money I was going to put in it and, therefore, what money she could put in her own account. She doesn't have very much in hers and I'm not planning on making any big deposits in mine.

Told her if she was going to divorce anyway, had to have my own account to separate out "my" expenses from "family" expenses (meaning basic bills, mortgage and kids needs...but NOT hers) Told her things weren't changing at the moment but needed to be prepared since she was bent on splitting up. Told her needed to make sure things were in order so that kids would not be affected financially.

Working on detaching and envisioning my life after her and setting up my own account felt good. Will need to work out finances, who will pay what, etc., but one step at a time.

[Heartbroken20]

Well, I decided to wait on telling our girls until next weekend I can be there for the following week to support them or answer any questions that will inevitably come up after the initial shock.

First reaction from wife was "why do we have to do it your way?" rather than any concern for the girls well being. Not surprising. "I don't like that you get to say when it happens." Calmly let her know that I would not tolerate her telling them without me there.

She finally agreed to wait "but I won't promise that again if you change your mind about next weekend, seems like you're just trying to put it off." Asked her what her rush was, did she have a timeline in motion? "No, we just need to tell them, it won't come as a surprise, trust me." Asked her what she meant by that, did she already say something? "No, but they know I have been unhappy, and see I don't wear my ring any more, and hear us fighting, I'm sure they are expecting it." Maybe but I'm betting it will still crush them when they actually hear it.

Second reaction was "why didn't you tell me sooner because I have been losing sleep worrying about this?" Calmly pointed out that this wasn't about her, it was about making sure I am there for our girls. I didn't tell her earlier as with all the Halloween stuff going on, there was no time to sit and discuss. Told her I had just found out my schedule late Friday, etc., but was really mad at myself for letting her bait me into defending my actions. No more Mr. Nice Guy trying to make things easy on her. Time for her to face reality that it's only the beginning of sleepless nights.

Told her how I would not be doing the talking, that she would explain to them why this is the only option for her. Told her I would only step in if she lied to them or tried to make this a "WE" decision or tried to put words in my mouth about the situation.

Talked about finances a little. Told her I would not be subsidizing her lawyer fees with family money. She said she would use her own income from her main job. Told her she would have to come up with extra from her new part-time business as we need her main job money for the household. She said I would be using family money for my lawyer, why couldn't she? Told her I was being FORCED to use money that should be saved for kids college, etc., due to her actions, but that I was not going to jeopardize their future to help her break up the family. She suggested using only a portion of her income then to pay for her lawyer and what percentage I though was fair. Didn't take THAT bait...asked what percentage SHE thought was fair? "I don't know, I haven't thought about it."

Doubt that, but do believe she hasn't thought through the whole divorce process and all of it's ramifications regarding family, friends, finances, children, grand-children, etc. She's making short-term decisions that have incredibly long-term, wide-ranging effects but can't see them through the fog. Typical WAW syndrome. She doesn't (or more precisely, refuses to) see it that way though. She just wants out.

Later, heard her talking "in code" (all answers but no statements or questions to the other person, as in "yes", "no", "not yet", "Noooo, not exactly...yes THAT!", "we'll chat later about that, okay?", etc.) to one of our daughter's best friend's Mom. She hung up then started texting back and forth for about 10 min.

Afterwards, she left her phone out and I couldn't resist checking out the texts.

Sent:"Thanks for calling, H is being his usual controlling self and now wants to wait until next weekend to tell girls."
Rec'd: "Just keep thinking about your girls, we'll talk more later when you're alone."

Turns out it was to the same Mom. Not surprised but we had specifically agreed NOT to discuss with ANY of our local friends whose kids were friends with ours so as to eliminate the risk of them finding out from someone else. Here she was talking about her decision and when we were going to tell girls with the Mom of one of our daughter's BEST friends!!!

So later, just for fun, I double-checked with her to make sure we were agreed that we would wait to say anything. Yes, agreed. Asked if she had told anyone else locally as we had agreed not to do so because of risk. "What does it matter? The girls aren't going to find out from anyone else." I said it DOES matter because they could, but MORE importantly, we had made an "agreement" NOT to tell any one local. She said a couple of her friends knew we were "having problems" because everyone has some but nothing more. She's been getting advice on lawyers, procedures, etc., from at least one of her separated/divorcing friends (4 of 5 of her local "close" friends are currently divorcing/separated) so I've known that wasn't true.

Just to confirm, threw out three names of our daughter's friend's Moms, including the one she texted, and asked what they knew. "Just that we are "having problems", but not that I've decided to divorce." Asked if anyone knew anything about when we would be telling the girls. "No, no one local knows anything about that, only my Mom and my out-of-state friends." I said okay just wanted to make sure the WE were the ones to tell them, not the gossip-mill.

I know she has been lying to me about so many things over the last couple of years due to her EA, MLC expenditures, and general WAW syndrome but it still floors me when she so blatantly does it with no trace of hesitation.

Detach, detach, detach......

She says she wants to work together using Collaborative Law, which is based on good faith and trust, but I just KNOW she is going to lie to her lawyer about who-knows-what and I am unsure of what exactly to do about it. I sure don't trust a thing that comes out of her mouth these days (other than she is no longer in love with me and wants a divorce) so not sure how I can believe she will negotiate in good faith.

Anyway, she has her initial meeting with her lawyer this week (scheduled it before she found out we were waiting to tell the girls) to discuss how she will pay and everything that will happen (in typical cases). I have to get an appointment with mine as well so I don't get blind-sided.

Man this sucks!

[Puppy Dog Tails]

HB20,

Good work; I know that wasn't easy. The catching-them-lying thing is a cheeseless tunnel, as I'm sure you already know.

I was curious as to what her response was to this:

Told her how I would not be doing the talking, that she would explain to them why this is the only option for her. Told her I would only step in if she lied to them or tried to make this a "WE" decision or tried to put words in my mouth about the situation.

Puppy

[Heartbroken20]

PDT - Thanks, it wasn't easy for sure and will likely get even more difficult ahead.

She asked if I'd been reading up on how to best approach them so as not to cause more damage because I was angry with her. Told her I had (did not mention it was the Coach Approach I found here) and that I was going to let her say her peace and correct her if necessary but not pile on.

Think she was most worried about me bringing up her EA and that the EA had prevented her from fully committing to our counseling, hence no progress and now divorce route. She obviously doesn't want to look like the bad guy here.

She said she was going to tell them that I had been unhappy in the marriage as well. Told her not to put words in my mouth. Did things need to change, absolutely. Is divorce the way to get them to change the way you want them to be, NIMHO. Is divorce the only option left at this point, absolutely not.

Over all though, she says she knows that the kids will blame her more than me but she feels so justified in her actions, she is willing to risk it. She didn't seem all that concerned that I was going to let her do most/all of the talking. Believe she thinks kids will agree with her decision. Frankly, I think she has no idea how they will really feel about it.

But, undoubtedly, we will have another discussion prior to actually sitting down with them. It will be the day after my birthday, Happy B-Day to me!