The only problem I have with your numbers is that because of what you have seen and experienced these become FACTS to you. Facts that you offer up to others without any hard evidence and quickly to others.
Quote:
People, I promise you, almost without exception, these people would rather live in lice than admit to you they did wrong. How can someone come out of MLC if they are not able to admit wrong? I don't think they can.
Without exception?
That is like saying 'never' these are absolutes...
You are fantastic when it comes to offering advice for standing up for yourself. Always have been, your absolutes, your facts, however are faulty.
OK Jack, fair enough, I'm a fair guy. I make my statements based upon what I have seen on this board and in life. I know that you can't comment on what I have experienced in life, but I do offer you to comment on what you have seen here on this board. Please offer evidence to prove me wrong and I will cheerfully admit it. I contend that the vast, vast majority of the marriages here fail and do not get back together, I also contend that the WAS puts the LBS into a terrible mess and doesn't do anything to make amends for the damage they have caused. Is this 100% true in ALL cases? NO is my answer to that, however, I do contend that its probably 90-95% if not more. With that being said, please offer evidence to prove this wrong. Is that fair?
I'm not getting into a pis sing match with you about precentagages that neither of us can prove.
50% of marriages end in divorce. Does that mean you don't get married?
Even if only 1% of the MLC spouses came back, does that mean you throw your hands in the air, say Fcuk it and leave. Or do you strive for that chance? AND do everything you can to ensure your likelyhood of being that 1%?
Hell I'll go you one better BH. I'll give you 1% make it. Its better than never. Hell even .1%, or even .001% make it. It beats the crap out of the absolute of never. Or 100% don't ever come back give up now.
I'll go with .001% anyday.
Experience is a brutal teacher, but you learn. My God, do you learn. - C.S. Lewis
Life is usually all about how you handle Plan B. - Jack3Beans
Listen without defending; Speak without offending - FaithinAK
Jack, I'm not getting into a pissing match with you either, I never said that everything was 100%, in fact I have said many times in my post that MOST, NOT ALL. Last time I checked, that isn't 100%. You are correct in the sense that 50% or more of 1st marriages end in divorce. That number jumps to 60% or more for 2nd marriages. However, not all marriages that fail have an MLCer in them. I was strictly speaking in terms of that. Jack, you don't have to be a statistical expert to see the success rates here. Does that make a scientific or statistical fact? No, it doesn't, but when you look at the number of people here on the board and equate the success vs. failure rate, I definately think that certain trends are clear in regards to it. I also didn't say that people shouldn't try to repair thier marriage, if its something they feel they need to do, by all means they should and all the best to them! I wish them every success! I do think that when the LBS get to the point of total desparation, and the MLCer is so mean to them to the point they are reaching at every straw, I think its time to get out. I don't mean to be cruel or mean to anyone with my postings, I just hate to see folks put through all of that B.S. I guess you and I will have to agree to disagree on this issue. I do respect your views, experience, and opinions. I also take my hat off to you for being one of the select few who put it all back together!
Strangely we say the same things, just in radically different ways.
And we actually don't disagree on that issue. Too many LBS wallow and don't move forward and allow the MLC to walk all over them and treat them poorly.
I think it is the way we present the advice, or chances that we disagree with. For me, I saw this abysmally low percent of it working out. One in a million, and I went for it, why couldn't I be that one. And I don't see why anyone else on this board can't be that one either.
I see the 1 in a million, (and this is not to offend you, this is just to tell you how I read your words) you come across (to me) as seeing the 999,999 against.
I think that is our differnce.
Although, I think anywone would be crazy to call me all sunshine and happiness when I post advice. I'm not saying you can grow flowers in lava.
Experience is a brutal teacher, but you learn. My God, do you learn. - C.S. Lewis
Life is usually all about how you handle Plan B. - Jack3Beans
Listen without defending; Speak without offending - FaithinAK
Jack, I think what you said has a lot of merrit. I do come accross as blunt, straight to the point, negative, and a bit cynical. I do see the odds as long, but I don't disagree that one shouldn't try, my beef is when its hopeless, and it gets to that point a lot here, people don't want to see or hear that. I do agree that we see a lot of the same things, I guess I just need a little polish! LOL
After MC #5 yesterday posted above, I continued the conversation on chat and when he got home. I tried to fix or make plans to address his feelings that came out in MC. Where was Jack to spank me out of doing that? Why didn't someone throw the DR book at me so that its corner punctured my temple?
H feels the MC is a good fit for H's problems but still doesn't want to actively work on the marriage. Feels he has put out and put out and doesn't want to risk any more right now. Doesn't want to work on getting to know each other or practice with affection and communicating unless there is a guarantee he will be happy. Says that us building up the small things is for fools who want the same thing they had. I think he is touch and go as to whether the problem is within him.
My H said maybe something is wrong with him as he doesn't feel better to express his feelings or be known/validated. The MC is working with him on this but H just cannot get it--repeat after me "emotionally unavailable."
Our 19 yo daughter came home and he put himself out there to connect with her. He has rewritten a back story that makes her a taker and him the unappreciated provider, but he is trying beyond what I would expect from someone displaying such pure, unadulterated selfishness.
I am reading (for the 2nd time) a book rec'd in another thread Understanding the Mid-Life Crisis by Peter O'Connor which I would highly recomend for anyone interested in a deeper view of the issues. It supports the DB premises that the MLC is about them and they need to work it out and that the spouse should downplay emotions to help/hope the mlc'r withdraws the projections they have attached to the LBS. He says the successful resolution of the MLC involves a renewed sense of purpose.
MC #6 The tension has eased between H and me and around the house. I don't feel like crying.
I have read the MLC archives extensively and believe my busting the affair was H's awakening. If he is still in some replay, I believe it is the computer gaming.
MC is focused on H and why he can't/won't share emotions. H suggested that it was about H and not between H and me so perhaps he should find an IC. The MC told H it involves OR too so I could be there too unless H was threatened by that. Something clicks between the MC and H so H is easily agreeing to ongoing MC.
I can't explain it but I feel the A is completely over. It seems like the feelings it generated are some sort of life preserver for H but the actual leaving us or PA was never really going to happen. It seems more like some sort of one-up on me to get some control of OR.
H said he is lost and he doesn't feel like OR should be uphill. I think you could replace OR with "life" and H doesn't know why life should be uphill.
H doesn't feel comfortable showing affection to me as that would be "seductive" and perhaps he would fall into the wrong type of R with me. Good to know I still have some redeeming qualities and I'll da-mn well use them if he wants to try again.
So my story for today is that I am not dealing with an extravagant MLC. However, due to the lack of communication skills and emotional disconnection, I'm afraid depression and withdrawal could be a long go.
Wow. I'm an idiot. The wind has been knocked out of my sails (again).
The tension was alleviated not because the addiction was winding down but because the EA has been ongoing and has escalated to in-person meetings with hugs and talking about their feelings in person. Maybe a two week break right when the bomb dropped.
We had an OR talk. (My bad, though not openly needy, very calm and supportive). He is still torn and has been going to MC still trying to figure out where we went off the rails. Still feels we have something deep but his feelings for OW are overwhelming. He feels loved when with her and doesn't think he has ever felt that way before. He said he had hope for us when the bomb dropped and he turned to me but a few days later we were back to the same old.
In the last couple days, outsiders are starting to find out--Her ex boyfriend, ex husband, the old workplace with public outbursts between parties of interest (my H moved on to a new workplace), etc.
I asked what they talk about that interests him when it wasn't their R or future and he said lately it has been their R and she is getting pissy and impatient. She accused him of cake eating and it made him mad. He said he doesn't want any part of another kid, ex husband, credit problems, psycho ex boyfriend, etc. and feels NO responsibility for those issues of hers. She is telling him they will work out the problems together. He said every rational part of him wants to come to me and be closer to me except for his powerful feelings.
